Gamefish Status???

[BasicPatrick]

The reality of this pending announcement is that this is a "feeel good" Executive Order at best and in the end, may end up being a very bad thing.

For those interested in the question, What does this mean, think about the following.

The definition of "game fish staus" being used in this order is "no sale". The Presidential order will will make S-B & Red Drum "game fish" in federal waters effectively prohibiting "commercial" fishing for S-B in federal waters. Considering that there is already a "regulation" that prohibits all fishing for S-B in federal waters, the executive Order alone will change nothing.

However, I predict the "real agenda" of this Executive Order will turn into a very bad thing. Executive Orders carry a lot of weight in the Federal Government. This will most likely be read by fisheries managers as a buffer, ending the arguement that if the EEZ is open for Recs it should be open for commercials. That will allow managers to open Federal Waters (EEZ) to recreational fishing for S-B. If the EEZ is opened for S-B recreational fishing, the recreational harvest will increase and we will be on our way to overfishing.

I see this as yet another move by those revisionist historians that blame the collapse of S-B on the commercials to make an allocation grab for recreational fishing and forget that we were a part of the collapse. The recreational fishery for S-B must retain the major protection of a closed EEZ so that we may be protected from ourselves. I hope that this does not happen but I am told the Executive Order is a done deal. S-B are successfully rebuilt and to eliminate the largest tool we have to protect the stock makes no sense. I agree we should concentrate of increasing forage, but this has nothing to do with that other and more major issue.

[Clogston29]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

However, I predict the "real agenda" of this Executive Order will turn into a very bad thing. Executive Orders carry a lot of weight in the Federal Government. This will most likely be read by fisheries managers as a buffer, ending the arguement that if the EEZ is open for Recs it should be open for commercials. That will allow them to open Federal Waters (EEZ) to recreational fishing for S-B. If the EEZ is opened for S-B recreational fishing, the recreational harvest will increase and we will be on our way to overfishing.

How will opening the EEZ to recs increase the harvest? Won't the same amount of people continue to harvest the same number of fish, now just over a larger area? If size and creel limits remain the same, it seams to me that the harvest should remain the same (decrease when the fact that there will be no more commercial harvest is considered). Am I missing something

[BasicPatrick]

A boat (private or charter) goes to Stellwagen Bank for tuna or cod...after they get their fish they now can take a S-B limit as well.

There is currently no legal commercial fishiing in the EEZ.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Clogston29

How will opening the EEZ to recs increase the harvest? Won't the same amount of people continue to harvest the same number of fish, now just over a larger area? If size and creel limits remain the same, it seams to me that the harvest should remain the same (decrease when the fact that there will be no more commercial harvest is considered). Am I missing something

or the comms. quota of the catch could become available to recs (I know there is some concern that that is the agenda of those pushing for game fish status) . I don't care who is catching, just how many are getting taken. Ending the commercial harvest wouldn't have near as big an effect on the stocks as going to 1 fish for recs would.

Anyone have a scientific basis for 36"'s? Not arguing, I am just curious where that number originally came from. Why not 40"? Why not 1 between 18 and 27" like they do from drum in NC. I think I am gonna find a fisheries course that looks at these issues cause I know that I really don't have any scientific basis for my opinions...

[BasicPatrick]

Originally Posted by zimmy

or the comms. quota of the catch could become available to recs (I know there is some concern that that is the agenda of those pushing for game fish status) . I don't care who is catching, just how many are getting taken. Ending the commercial harvest wouldn't have near as big an effect on the stocks as going to 1 fish for recs would.

The Executive Order will have NO IMPACT on how many S-B are caught in the commercial catch as there is already a "regulation" that stops commercial fishing for S-B in the EEZ. It would strengthen that regulation.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

The Executive Order will have NO IMPACT on how many S-B are caught in the commercial catch as there is already a "regulation" that stops commercial fishing for S-B in the EEZ. It would strengthen that regulation.

That's not at all true. While it may not have an effect on the EZZ, what about the Coast, Narragansett Bay, the Cape Cod Canal, the Outer beaches, Cape Cod Bay, buzzards bay, etc. It's all open to commercial rod and reel S-B fishing. If the quota is 3 million pounds in Mass and S-B get game status, then that's 3 million pounds that don't get caught and sold in the commercial market.

Am I missing something here????

[GonnaCatchABig1]

"Gamefish status will deny access to this public trust resource to people who want to eat striped bass or red drum but don't have either the time or the money or the desire to go recreational fishing," said Rob West of Buxton.

uh oh.. just think of all the morons that will be out trying to catch a meal now. you know the ones.. the guys who think you just caught all the frozen bunker.

hopefully they will just give up on eating striper. but ya know about 15% of them will attempt it. get a ready for a flood of guys with no fishing etiquette.


also.. hope they have some even more strict anti-poaching plans in the works. cause now theres gonna be an increased black market for stripers.

the rest of the issue i know nothing about. but seems like it would increase stock. but only by fractions if at all. still want either a slot or higher limits and one fish per person per day.

[riverrat2]

1 a 36 for recs, leave the mass comm season the way it is, a controlled quota which is quite small compared by overall recs kills in mass alone. And whats up with everyone complaining about pogie regs, in case anyone hasn't noticed there are more pogies around right now than there has been in a long time.

[BasicPatrick]

Originally Posted by piemma

That's not at all true. While it may not have an effect on the EZZ, what about the Coast, Narragansett Bay, the Cape Cod Canal, the Outer beaches, Cape Cod Bay, buzzards bay, etc. It's all open to commercial rod and reel S-B fishing. If the quota is 3 million pounds in Mass and S-B get game status, then that's 3 million pounds that don't get caught and sold in the commercial market.

Am I missing something here????

Yes, I think you are missing the point. the Executive Order has nothing to do with State Waters or waters inside three miles. Commercial fishing in all of the places you mention will NOT BE AFFECTED!!!!!!

Currently/right now/today/in 2007 there is/was no Striped Bass fishing of any kind in FEDERAL WATERS (aka EEZ or ouside the three mile line). To be clear, in 2007 there was no commercial or recreational S-B legally caught in Federal waters. This is because Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission has a regulation that prohibits ALL Striper fishing in Federal waters.

This new Executive Order will permanently prohibit commercial fishing of Striped Bass only in Federal Waters. In other words the President is going to issue an order that will change nothing. Next year, after the executive order, the same commercial fishery will exist in the same waters it did today. The quotas will be managed the same, nothing is going to change.

What we fear is that by prohibiting only commercial fishing, the order will be interpreted as "not prohibiting" recreational fishing for S-B inn Federal Waters and will open a door to those that want to end the many years these fish that reside in federal waters have enjoyed.



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[JoeP]

I read some more. It seems Patrick's right - that is all the Executive Order has the power to do. Useless.

Apparently CCA is simply hoping this FEderal move will "influence" the States to do the same. Never will happen.

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

Yes, I think you are missing the point. the Executive Order has nothing to do with State Waters or waters inside three miles. Commercial fishing in all of the places you mention will NOT BE AFFECTED!!!!!!

Currently/right now/today/in 2007 there is/was no Striped Bass fishing of any kind in FEDERAL WATERS (aka EEZ or ouside the three mile line). To be clear, in 2007 there was no commercial or recreational S-B legally caught in Federal waters. This is because Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission has a regulation that prohibits ALL Striper fishing in Federal waters.

This new Executive Order will permanently prohibit commercial fishing of Striped Bass only in Federal Waters. In other words the President is going to issue an order that will change nothing. Next year, after the executive order, the same commercial fishery will exist in the same waters it did today. The quotas will be managed the same, nothing is going to change.

What we fear is that by prohibiting only commercial fishing, the order will be interpreted as "not prohibiting" recreational fishing for S-B inn Federal Waters and will open a door to those that want to end the many years these fish that reside in federal waters have enjoyed.



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[piemma]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

Yes, I think you are missing the point. the Executive Order has nothing to do with State Waters or waters inside three miles. Commercial fishing in all of the places you mention will NOT BE AFFECTED!!!!!!

Currently/right now/today/in 2007 there is/was no Striped Bass fishing of any kind in FEDERAL WATERS (aka EEZ or ouside the three mile line). To be clear, in 2007 there was no commercial or recreational S-B legally caught in Federal waters. This is because Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission has a regulation that prohibits ALL Striper fishing in Federal waters.

This new Executive Order will permanently prohibit commercial fishing of Striped Bass only in Federal Waters. In other words the President is going to issue an order that will change nothing. Next year, after the executive order, the same commercial fishery will exist in the same waters it did today. The quotas will be managed the same, nothing is going to change.

What we fear is that by prohibiting only commercial fishing, the order will be interpreted as "not prohibiting" recreational fishing for S-B inn Federal Waters and will open a door to those that want to end the many years these fish that reside in federal waters have enjoyed.



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I stand corrected. i didn't realize the EO would have no effect on state waters.