Who won the debate last night?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"I would think that someone like yourself with strong religious beliefs would find Gingrich, with his infidelity and 2 divorces, just as reprehensible as you find Clinton."

You have some irrefutably valid points, as usual.

However, someone with my religious beliefs understands that we're all imperfect. As far as anyone knows, Gingrich has been happily married for 15 years, is a devout Catholic, and he admits his sins and has asked for forgiveness. I don't see that as morally equivalent to Clinton using a 20 year-old girl's sexual organs as an ashtray, and then angrily denying it the next day, and suggesting that my problem is that I don't understand the definition of the word "is".

I find Gingrich's past actions there to be disgusting. I also believe in redemption for those who are sorry. By all accounts, Gingrich has been sorry for his flaws, and has been an above-the-board person, since he converted to Catholicism.

"I understand that Clinton is a Democrat and therefore you hate him. "

You understand me a whole lot less than you think. There are lots of Democrats I like, and lots of republicans I despise. I think very rationally about these things. I also think Clinton was a pretty good president, especially after he adopted conservative economics.

Appreciate and can respect the opinion. Maybe it's my cynicism, but I personally don't have much confidence that either of them are all that great of human beings - mostly due to my distaste of most national level politicians.

"I'm curious how you justify the double-standard. "

A double-standard is when you treat 2 things differently when they are, in fact, the same. Gingrich appears to me to be a sincere, devout Catholic who fully admits his sins. Clinton (while a good president in my opinion) is a weasel. I'd bet Clinton is still unfaithful to Hilary, and I'd bet that Newt has straightened himself out. That's the difference.

It's not a double standard when you treat 2 different things, as if they are different.

Whether it is or is not a double-standard is essentially an "in the eyes of the beholder" type of situation. Due to your opinion that Newt has converted and is repentant while Clinton has never been, eliminates the possibility of it appearing as a double-standard to you.

Here's a real double-standard...saying that Bush trampled civil liberties by passing the Patriot Act, but not holding it against Obama. Or calling Bush a war criminal for using predator drones and Guantanimo Bay, but calling Obama a good leader for doing the same, and even giving him the Nobel Peace Prize.. Those would be real double standards.

Aside from you posts about Unions, I haven't agreed with you more than with the above. The quiet, continued support for extending the Patriot Act, his push for actions that erode our rights domestically, the increased warrant-less tracking of Americans at home and many other attacks on our right to privacy.... these are some of my biggest issues with Obama. It was my biggest issue with Bush and now is my biggest issue with Obama.