Arizona alien law will hold....

[GattaFish]

If people don't like the laws in any state, or country then don't come here.... This is a bunch of crap.

This country is so worried about being politically correct and this that or the other about religion, ethnicity and god knows what else that all we do is make things worse,,,,,,, Your either an American or not,, and if not then you should not have any or the rights afforded to Americans

Someone needs to step up and tell people this is the way it is, If you don't like it then DON'T COME HERE. Maybe Arizona is tired of Shipping them back as well.......


Lets face it,,, Many of the border states have a problem with crime,,, and a large amount of the crimes are committed by people who should not be here,,,

I have traveled to quite a few places around the world that keep your passport, make you fill out a bunch of forms, only issue a 72 hours visa (which you must have on you at ALL TIMES) and if you don't follow the rules they come get you and tell you to GET OUT of their country or throw you in jail,,,,,,,

I hate whiners,,,

[spence]

Originally Posted by GattaFish

Someone needs to step up and tell people this is the way it is, If you don't like it then DON'T COME HERE.

For many people that's not really the point. I think most Americans support enforcement of our immigration laws and don't think rampant illegal immigration is a good thing. Most would think the Federal government needs to do more.

The issue is, should the burden of immigration law be shifted to the states who are then given legal authority to profile people in the US?

This is a bad idea IMHO. If I was a perfectly legal Hispanic US citizen in Arizona I'd be paranoid as hell the police were watching me.

The police are either going to take a ton of heat for profiling (and harassing) US citizens, or they're going to be gun shy and the bill won't help anyway.

Best case is this bill get's killed and triggers some bi-partisan action in Congress.

The bill as-is certainly doesn't reflect what I thought made American special.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

For many people that's not really the point. I think most Americans support enforcement of our immigration laws and don't think rampant illegal immigration is a good thing. Most would think the Federal government needs to do more.

The issue is, should the burden of immigration law be shifted to the states who are then given legal authority to profile people in the US?

This is a bad idea IMHO. If I was a perfectly legal Hispanic US citizen in Arizona I'd be paranoid as hell the police were watching me.

The police are either going to take a ton of heat for profiling (and harassing) US citizens, or they're going to be gun shy and the bill won't help anyway.

Best case is this bill get's killed and triggers some bi-partisan action in Congress.

The bill as-is certainly doesn't reflect what I thought made American special.

-spence

a perfect trail of intelligent posts followed by an articulate moronic response by "you know who"
So Arizona, a state with millions of Hispanic citizens is suddenly going to be plunged into a police state as Hispanic citizens are coralled into lines to prove their citizenship....
Will it be Carlos in his Toyota Camry dropping off his kids on the way to school?
Jorge in his UPS truck? Maria selling girl scout cookies? Or Father Juan at St Mary's ?
OR maybe, just maybe common sense will prevail.......will it be the nameless guys standing on the corner at 7:30 am looking for day labor work?

[likwid]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

a perfect trail of intelligent posts followed by an articulate moronic response by "you know who"
So Arizona, a state with millions of Hispanic citizens is suddenly going to be plunged into a police state as Hispanic citizens are coralled into lines to prove their citizenship....
Will it be Carlos in his Toyota Camry dropping off his kids on the way to school?
Jorge in his UPS truck? Maria selling girl scout cookies? Or Father Juan at St Mary's ?
OR maybe, just maybe common sense will prevail.......will it be the nameless guys standing on the corner at 7:30 am looking for day labor work?

There were 5 standing infront of Riverhead Building Supply this morning.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by likwid

There were 5 standing infront of Riverhead Building Supply this morning.

and if they are citizens or legal aliens, god bless them, I hope they find work, if not, ship 'em home. There is no room at the inn.

[Nebe]

[likwid]

Then walking back to the car I almost get hit by a crappy little toyota pickup with Illinois plates.

Illinois?
Really?

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

a perfect trail of intelligent posts followed by an articulate moronic response by "you know who"
So Arizona, a state with millions of Hispanic citizens is suddenly going to be plunged into a police state as Hispanic citizens are coralled into lines to prove their citizenship....
Will it be Carlos in his Toyota Camry dropping off his kids on the way to school?
Jorge in his UPS truck? Maria selling girl scout cookies? Or Father Juan at St Mary's ?
OR maybe, just maybe common sense will prevail.......will it be the nameless guys standing on the corner at 7:30 am looking for day labor work?

I guess I might be a bit offended if your accusation wasn't so clumsy.

What's funny is that there are two very appropriate anecdotes from the Arizona border with Mexico, and the Sheriff's who preside over these counties.

One has come out with strong words that the original bill is racist and will absolutely encourage racial profiling.

The other is known for using strong tactics himself, and is the recipient of numerous accusations of racial profiling.

Not to mention that immigration is generally a Federal issue. How quickly they caved on amending the bill is a pretty good indicator of where they think they stood.

More fodder for real Federal reform.

-spence

[Fly Rod]

[QUOTE=spence;765348]

The police are either going to take a ton of heat for profiling (and harassing) US citizens, or they're going to be gun shy and the bill won't help anyway.


The police will not be profiling. Your president when speaking to the people of this country on national TV the other day made sure to leave out that in the Arizona law that a cop can not just stop you because your Mexican. They must stop you for some other violation such as speeding, running a red light, not using your turn signal, robbing a bank before they can ask you for your legal papers or green card.

The law is like the seat belt law, can't be stopped just for not wearing your seat belt. So you just can't be stopped because you are Mexican, Hispanic, Brazilian etc:.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

The police will not be profiling. Your president when speaking to the people of this country on national TV the other day made sure to leave out that in the Arizona law that a cop can not just stop you because your Mexican. They must stop you for some other violation such as speeding, running a red light, not using your turn signal, robbing a bank before they can ask you for your legal papers or green card.

The law is like the seat belt law, can't be stopped just for not wearing your seat belt. So you just can't be stopped because you are Mexican, Hispanic, Brazilian etc:.

Hmmm... it was my understanding that "reasonable suspicion" is all that police need. Do you have a link? If you're right, it further invalidates the opponents arguments.

[Swimmer]

We use reasonable suspicion everyday. The lawbreakers understand it completely and the people we mistakenly talk to understand it also when we are investigating a crime. We explain ourselves, appologize and go on our way, (insert the stupid cop story here). The "illegal" people are just trying their case/problem in the court of public concern. I once was in court standing adjacent to a trooper who was asked at at sidebar hearing by the publically appointed attorney asked the trooper if he gave/read the brazilian guy his rights. Trooper said no I didn't. I don't have too. He is not a citizen of this country. I let him use the phone, but said nothing else to him. With that the trooper stated verbatim the first paragraph of the constitution. The judge got up and siad I have to think about this for a little while, I'll be right back.

Judge came back and said while the trooper was probably right we'll give the guy a break.

[buckman]

[QUOTE=Fly Rod;765419]

Originally Posted by spence

The police are either going to take a ton of heat for profiling (and harassing) US citizens, or they're going to be gun shy and the bill won't help anyway.


The police will not be profiling. Your president when speaking to the people of this country on national TV the other day made sure to leave out that in the Arizona law that a cop can not just stop you because your Mexican. They must stop you for some other violation such as speeding, running a red light, not using your turn signal, robbing a bank before they can ask you for your legal papers or green card.

The law is like the seat belt law, can't be stopped just for not wearing your seat belt. So you just can't be stopped because you are Mexican, Hispanic, Brazilian etc:.

All true.... but why let the truth get in the way