Increase in commercial quota for next year

[piemma]

I am just amazed at the level of stupidity being displayed by ASMFC



"on November 9th the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission will vote on on the proposal to expand the coastal commercial quota for striped bass. Stripers Forever is strongly opposed to this idea on all grounds. Here are the states that voted in favor of this commercial expansion in past meetings:


North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, New York, Rhode Island, Connecticut


The vote in favor was 10 to 6, so we need to change two votes in order for the increase to be denied - other districts and organizations have votes also. We think that several votes will change because of the terrible season that has gone by, the public comments against the idea, and the recent poor young-of-the-year survey from Chesapeake Bay, but it is very important that we take nothing for granted. Money is a powerful tool, and many of the commercial interests will be doing their best to get a bigger slice of the declining striped bass pie."

[goosefish]

Can the striped bass sustain the pressure? Incredible how many of these fish are already harvested by all sides, commercial, rec., party and charter. I'm dumbfounded at the amount of meat that gets taken on the southwest Ledge on Block Island. We're going to be sorry if we keep the pressure up. We need to be smart--I don't know if a group of managers and scientists can be smart. In a funny way they are too smart and therefore trip on their toes. These groups have gotten too big--they behave like the tower of babel, all the jargon and data--whatever happened to eyes.

And yet the whole commercial side--because of the very tight quotas on other species like scup and haddock and yellowtail flounder; plus the whole coming of fleet consolidation and allocation grabbing--where the benefit goes to those with the deepest pockets---the small boat commercial fisherman in many Atlantic States, feels that it is his/her American Right to harvest striped bass at a higher level. It's a mess Paul. A total mess. People need to be smart about this. I like one fish per day. But I don't own a charter boat and I don't sell them. And I don't think that striped bass has caused the collapse of the southern New England lobster fishery. . .

[BigFish]

That is a mistake. Commercial fishing is decimating the stocks and I am sorry if it pisses people off but I believe this is reason number 1 why the fall run the last few seasons has sucked and there is a noticeable lack of small fish. All the breeders are being taken. That is my belief and like it or not kiddies I am sticking to it.

Reason number 2 is the 2 fish a day take........we need to roll that back to 1 fish at 36 inches! Nobody needs 2 fish a day.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by BigFish

That is a mistake. Commercial fishing is decimating the stocks and I am sorry if it pisses people off but I believe this is reason number 1 why the fall run the last few seasons has sucked and there is a noticeable lack of small fish. All the breeders are being taken. That is my belief and like it or not kiddies I am sticking to it.

Reason number 2 is the 2 fish a day take........we need to roll that back to 1 fish at 36 inches! Nobody needs 2 fish a day.

Recreational fishermen kill a boatload more fish than commercial guys do. WE ARE THE PROBLEM!!!!!! That being said, there is no way we should allow a rise in the commercial take. Both sides should lower their limits

[BigFish]

Well there are more recreational fisherman than commercial. The problem being the size minimum the comms need to take their limit. They are taking more large than the recreational fisherman in my estimation. If I keep 10 fish all year (which is accurate) a comm takes 10 on a day and they are all large (breeders).

As I said and have said since they increased the take to 2 a day......thats more than anyone needs and it should be 1 at 36. This would cut the rec take dramatically!

[luds]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Recreational fishermen kill a boatload more fish than commercial guys do. WE ARE THE PROBLEM!!!!!! That being said, there is no way we should allow a rise in the commercial take. Both sides should lower their limits

Agree with everyone thing you said. Unfortunately I don't think anything will change other than golf courses and bars will probably get little more crowded as there are less and less fish to catch.

[SAUERKRAUT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Recreational fishermen kill a boatload more fish than commercial guys do. WE ARE THE PROBLEM!!!!!! That being said, there is no way we should allow a rise in the commercial take. Both sides should lower their limits

A personal friend of mine, Steve Howell is a trailer boat captain: Doubled Up Charters. He commercial fishes stripers in season; in fact, I host him with a bed and a shower whenever he needs as he is from Paxton. (I do this despite the fact I am opposed to the entire entity of a striped bass commercial fishery). His "take" for the season was: 37 stripers that went OVER 40 pounds! VERY FEW of these, and many other fish harvested by him were killed and recorded during the commercial season.

Tell me: Isn't the so-called Recreational Fisherman killing the fish really just the same Commercial Fisherman outside the Commercial Season?

Very very few so-called Recreational Fishermen have the expertise or the opportunity that Capt. Steve does. This is not a Recreational Fisherman! There are many many like him, and they need to be brought out from hiding.

[robc22]

Originally Posted by SAUERKRAUT

A personal friend of mine, Steve Howell is a trailer boat captain: Doubled Up Charters. He commercial fishes stripers in season; in fact, I host him with a bed and a shower whenever he needs as he is from Paxton. (I do this despite the fact I am opposed to the entire entity of a striped bass commercial fishery). His "take" for the season was: 37 stripers that went OVER 40 pounds! VERY FEW of these, and many other fish harvested by him were killed and recorded during the commercial season.

Tell me: Isn't the so-called Recreational Fisherman killing the fish really just the same Commercial Fisherman outside the Commercial Season?

Very very few so-called Recreational Fishermen have the expertise or the opportunity that Capt. Steve does. This is not a Recreational Fisherman! There are many many like him, and they need to be brought out from hiding.

bought out from hiding!?!? like they are public servants on the take!?!? they are just good bass fishermen,period. I find your post disturbing.....there's a million pound quota in ma......that quota gets filled by folks that are good at catching bass, thats all.....I grew up on the cape......you guys love to talk about rec. vs comm......I'm a fisherman period. sometimes I sell the fish, sometimes I eat the fish and sometimes I let the fish go.......I'm guessing your "buddy" capt. steve is the same way...........

[BassDawg]

Originally Posted by robc22

bought out from hiding!?!? like they are public servants on the take!?!? they are just good bass fishermen,period. I find your post disturbing.....there's a million pound quota in ma......that quota gets filled by folks that are good at catching bass, thats all.....I grew up on the cape......you guys love to talk about rec. vs comm......I'm a fisherman period. sometimes I sell the fish, sometimes I eat the fish and sometimes I let the fish go.......I'm guessing your "buddy" capt. steve is the same way...........

hey rob~~

i believe that SRKT is referring to skewed/inaccurate commercial ###'s with respect to the coming increase in their Commercial Quota for 2011.

if the numbers are OFF and we already KNOW that they can be manipulated, then how is the ASMFC supposed to make legitimate regulation? AND i am certain that this has been happening for decades!!

my view is to reduce the take for BOTH! 1 @ 36" for us, ??? millions ##'s less for them. ALSO, we must Fix the Forage!! leave the bunker alone for three yrs!! just my thoughts,,,,,,,,,,

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by BigFish

That is a mistake. Commercial fishing is decimating the stocks and I am sorry if it pisses people off but I believe this is reason number 1 why the fall run the last few seasons has sucked and there is a noticeable lack of small fish. All the breeders are being taken. That is my belief and like it or not kiddies I am sticking to it.

Reason number 2 is the 2 fish a day take........we need to roll that back to 1 fish at 36 inches! Nobody needs 2 fish a day.

So you say blame the commercial people.

Your way of thinking is:
Don't you dare blame the recreational fishermen that catch in access of 25 million pounds and has at least a 6 percent fatality rate on released fish.

With them stats your group kills 1,500,000 fish that you think are going to live when you practice catch & release.
And do not give me the crap that the recreational fishermen bring in dollars to motels, restauarants, etc:
Charter boats do the same thing, they bring in monies to motels, restaurants etc. too, guess what, charter boats are commercial fishing, they receive money.

[BigFish]

There someone goes putting words in my mouth again! Flyrod....not sure how you missed my comments on the recreational community but check your notes, re-read my posts please. This is a controversial issue and people are going to disagree.....I am entitled to my opinions just as you are and I will respect your opinions as long as you respect mine. Just because folks do not agree with someone elses opinion does not make it wrong! So do me a favor and check yourself!

Fly Rod you may also notice I did not comment on the prospect of cutting back the comm quota.........just against the raising of the quota! My only change IS THE RECREATIONAL DAILY TAKE!

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by BigFish

There someone goes putting words in my mouth again! Flyrod....not sure how you missed my comments on the recreational community but check your notes, re-read my posts please. This is a controversial issue and people are going to disagree.....I am entitled to my opinions just as you are and I will respect your opinions as long as you respect mine. Just because folks do not agree with someone elses opinion does not make it wrong! So do me a favor and check yourself!

Fly Rod you may also notice I did not comment on the prospect of cutting back the comm quota.........just against the raising of the quota! My only change IS THE RECREATIONAL DAILY TAKE!

Everyone is intitled to an opinion and that is gauranteed by our first amendment.

What I commented on was that you stated that the commercials are the number one problem. My quote to you was that they were not.

Here is your quote that I commented on.
Commercial fishing is decimating the stocks and I am sorry if it pisses people off but I believe this is reason number 1.

The south shore may have had not so good a year. We had a great year in deep water and along the shore.

Anyway, pull up to your favorite chair, sit back and enjoy the football games today. You deserve it.

[BigFish]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

Everyone is intitled to an opinion and that is gauranteed by our first amendment.

What I commented on was that you stated that the commercials are the number one problem. My quote to you was that they were not.

Here is your quote that I commented on.
Commercial fishing is decimating the stocks and I am sorry if it pisses people off but I believe this is reason number 1.

The south shore may have had not so good a year. We had a great year in deep water and along the shore.

Anyway, pull up to your favorite chair, sit back and enjoy the football games today. You deserve it.

Yep I stand behind that! Comms do most of the damage and you will not change my mind on that! Personally I agree with Piemma and it would not bother me one bit to do away with the commercial season!

[JakeF]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

And do not give me the crap that the recreational fishermen bring in dollars to motels, restauarants, etc:

Charter boats do the same thing, they bring in monies to motels, restaurants etc. too, guess what, charter boats are commercial fishing, they receive money.

But the take of charter and party boats is NOT counted toward the commercial quota. They are considered recreational by the ASMFC, and their take is counted as recreational take. In the eyes of the ASMFC, charter & party boats are merely providing transportation. The fishing is done by recreation fishermen and the fish are not sold to a fish market, therefore the insane amount of fish taken each year by charter & party boats goes on the rec tab.

Let's change this as well.

[iamskippy]

i agree with all points here accept the 1 a day. if u increase to 36 keep it at 2,give the dingo's a fighting chance.

does anyone know of partition websites that can be spamed or mailing addresses?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[afterhours]

stop all this nonsense and give them gamefish status as well as a coastwide limit of 1 @ 36"....and we can't forget the baitfish issues. sidenote- there are waaay too many guys illegally selling backdoor to restaurants and others. take the bounty off the fish and watch them flourish.

it's not rocket science.

[Adam_777]

I've been poking around here and there and I'm not exactly sure it's the com guy that is destroying anything.My angle on this is a bit different.If you fix the bait inshore the bass will come back.The herring,pogies,and squid have been getting pounded into oblivion the last couple years.I know here in RI the pogies come in then DEM's plan that has failed 2 years straight fails and the pogies get wiped out in a few days.The squid show up and 15 draggers show up a mile off newport and take them all until they are gone.Set after set after set.Herring has been bad for years and no longer a reliable sustainable source of forage.What we've had is sand eels off shore by the megaton and the fish just staying out and eating.Doing what they do.Feeding on the easiest most abundant.The bigger bass that are coming in are full of lobster and the local lobster guys barely make enough to cover gas.The truth is the commercial quota isn't the problem.The bass have no food to eat.I am a rec fisherman and have seen both sides of the platter.Picture this if your mind allows.DEM closes pogies for the season.The squid boats are not allowed within 5 miles of the furthest point off the east coast.What would happen when the bays fill with bait? I'm pretty sure it would change most people's view.I have no problem with upping the com take as long as the rec regulations get changed.1 fish a day is fine or "gamefish" is fine .Tag program that allows a certain amount a year would also be fine for me.The commercial take is regulated and the season gets closed when the quota is met.Rec is open,no catch numbers from a large percentage and no closed season.Never mind all of the people rec fishing and selling their catch for cash.Another problem although it's smaller than the bait and bad regulations it still is a problem.Like I said earlier let the bays fill up with bait on the entire coast and then we'll talk about bass population problems and regulations.

Fix the bait first!

[BigFish]

Adam 777 for President of Fisheries Management!!!!

[goosefish]

no fishing within 5 miles--so that would get rid of all state waters commercial fisherman in most states--then all quota would go to the federal larger-sized boats and all fisheries would shift to a winter offshore harvest. I'd be totally against this.

What about rolling closures: close an area, let the fish spawn and then open it again. That seems to be working in the southern Gulf of Maine for groundfish.

It is a slippery slope. Something might make sense for one fishery but make no sense in a another. I contradict myself all the time. Like I think herring boats (which are all federal boats) should be required to fish at least 5 miles off the beaches. Yet when it comes to squid I feel differently. . .

[intrepid24]

....an increase at this point for com seems like a recipe for disaster.
A moratorium should be considered, IMHO.......its starting to seem inevitable anyway.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Keep the quota as is for now.
1 fish at 36" for recs.
the numbers will come down.

[Adam_777]

The 5 mile scenario was just put out to prove my point that I think the bait is the actual problem here.The people that manage the resources are failing and their decisions are changing migration,spawn and foraging for many different species not just bass.The entire system needs an overhaul.Like said earlier what works for one fishery doesn't for others.Bottom line is no bait=no fish.No bait= fish eat into other fishery's.No bait=bad.Bottom line it's what needs to be fixed.The com quota in some states could be adjusted for fair coverage from all of the other states.I don't see why some of the states with the larger quota's would need an increase .Should be like tug of war if RI gets 100K lbs then a couple of the heavy hitting states should have to lower their overall to make up the difference thus not changing the overall.Until the fishery managers can get accurate stock assessments I don't think an increase in total com take is the right move.Shuffling the take from state to state for now is fine but the problem's will still remain.It's other fishery's impact on the bass that needs to be fixed.So I don't support overall comm increase but I do think they could shuffle the numbers from state to state a bit more.

[piemma]

All good points but I think it was Afterhours who said it best. Give the bass gamefish status and make the limit 1 fish a day. I believe in the 36" or 34" and saw it work in the 80s and early 90s.

In any event, just to reiterate:

Game fish status
No commercial season ....ever
1 fish a day for the recs 34 or 36".

I read a post on the "other" site where this guys bragged that he fishes almost everyday and takes his limit of fish everyday. So if it's 100 days and he takes 2 fish a day then he kills 200 28"+ fish every year. What the hell does he do with that many fish? The man is an idiot and should be banned from this sport.

One other point. I know that there are many guys on this site that are comm. I did it myself in the 70s but it was gas money and bait money and equipment money. It wasn't "make a living money". I have no problem with guys who make a living on the water. I just think the Striped Bass is too valuable of a resource to wantonly slaughtered for commercial or even recreational reasons.

During the moritorium, we that were hard core kept fishing even though we could not keep anything. If you do this thing of ours because you love it, then it doesn't matter if you kill anything. I personally caught well over 200 legal Bass this year. I killed exactly 2 fish that were gut hooked.

We need to apply some sanity or it will be the 80s all over again.

[tattoobob]

Originally Posted by piemma

I read a post on the "other" site where this guys bragged that he fishes almost everyday and takes his limit of fish everyday. So if it's 100 days and he takes 2 fish a day then he kills 200 28"+ fish every year. What the hell does he do with that many fish? The man is an idiot and should be banned from this sport.

I find it hard to believe that someone catches 2 keepers every time he goes fishing

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by tattoobob

I find it hard to believe that someone catches 2 keepers every time he goes fishing

You mean, you don't?

1 @ 36. let's start there!

[goosefish]

We just might have some fantastic bluefish years heading our way.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by tattoobob

I find it hard to believe that someone catches 2 keepers every time he goes fishing

.

[maddmatt]

Originally Posted by piemma

All good points but I think it was Afterhours who said it best. Give the bass gamefish status and make the limit 1 fish a day. I believe in the 36" or 34" and saw it work in the 80s and early 90s.

In any event, just to reiterate:

Game fish status
No commercial season ....ever
1 fish a day for the recs 34 or 36".

I read a post on the "other" site where this guys bragged that he fishes almost everyday and takes his limit of fish everyday. So if it's 100 days and he takes 2 fish a day then he kills 200 28"+ fish every year. What the hell does he do with that many fish? The man is an idiot and should be banned from this sport.

One other point. I know that there are many guys on this site that are comm. I did it myself in the 70s but it was gas money and bait money and equipment money. It wasn't "make a living money". I have no problem with guys who make a living on the water. I just think the Striped Bass is too valuable of a resource to wantonly slaughtered for commercial or even recreational reasons.

During the moritorium, we that were hard core kept fishing even though we could not keep anything. If you do this thing of ours because you love it, then it doesn't matter if you kill anything. I personally caught well over 200 legal Bass this year. I killed exactly 2 fish that were gut hooked.

We need to apply some sanity or it will be the 80s all over again.

boat or surf???

[ProfessorM]

Dave's trolling again, looks like he has some real good bait too.Hopefully he changed his line recently as I got a feeling he could get a big fish

[WoodyCT]

The sky IS falling. AGAIN!

And if we don't find a way to accept that RECS and COMMS are both killers, thus in the wrong, then history will repeat itself.

And then Washington will take radical measures to protect the resource from fishermen, all fishermen, after the stocks are driven to collapse.

WE must regulate ourselves and become politically active if WE want to preserve our fishery.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device