TWO BASS FOR RI CHARTER AND PARTY BOATS?

[DZ]

Here is an excerpt from a Zach Harvey article about forward thinking Charter Captain Al Anderson. Full article linked afterwards.

{While I’ve long understood some of the bad blood between other captains and Anderson, I’ve more recently come to see and understand Anderson’s perspective. Where sportfishing communities in other parts of the country seem to have been much more receptive to key aspects of conservation, the overwhelming majority of ports in the Northeast have long been meat-fishing legacies — few places more so than Anderson’s home port of Point Judith, R.I. Charter fishing there has long been understood as an investment in filleted freezer ballast as much as an exciting day on the water.

Anderson, whose charter rates are more than double what many of his competitors charge, has for years refused to trophy-hunt except on occasions when he knows big fish will be tagged and released, and actively discourages clients from keeping as much as regulations permit. These are policies that have cost him clientele and led many of his competitors to dismiss him as arrogant.

What I think has been widely misunderstood about the man is that his singular, Ahab-grade commitment to fish tagging and conservation is not a gimmick or publicity stunt. Again, Anderson is a man who has made policy of principles, even when many of those principles run against the main current of the community around him. The world rarely embraces such men in their own time, but it surely needs them and seldom forgets them.}
Zach Harvey is fishing editor for Soundings.


April 2014 issue

http://mobile.soundingsonline.com/ho...columns/291904

[Clammer]

MAKAI I love your last sentence ..........toooo bad there are far tooooooomany that believe that ,s what,s lifes about &&&&&&&&& ride it all their lives

[ivanputski]

In times of drought and water shortages, people are asked to not water their lawns, not wash their cars, and take shorter showers because there is a limited and dwindling supply of water left.
Some of the arguments here are like a carwash owner that simply refuses to cut his carwash time from 6 minutes to 4 minutes in times of drought because they are convinced "no one is going to pay for a 4 minute carwash and I'm going to go out of business!"

Well, in the end, what's a carwash to do when the water runs out?

[buckman]

You guys are so dismissive it's comical. First of all I didn't say this was about me as a matter fact i said this isn't about me. I've never been out of work a day in my life . But there of been plenty of times I've had to fight for my job against overzealous regulators . I'm not a fisherman for a living .
The bottom line is a lot of you guys are taking this to the extreme . It doesn't have to be that way .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[ivanputski]

Priority #1 right now should be what is best for the fish population... PERIOD.

Those who vehemently oppose the idea that bass stocks are in trouble most likely have views that are motivated by money.
We are playing Russian Roulette with an entire fishery.
If the bass population never collapsed in the past, then maybe you can stick to a "no way... never gonna happen" mentality... but it did, and it seems that some just refuse to accept the idea that bass are in any trouble at all.

[JoeG@Breezy]

Originally Posted by ivanputski

Priority #1 right now should be what is best for the fish population... PERIOD.

Those who vehemently oppose the idea that bass stocks are in trouble most likely have views that are motivated by money.
We are playing Russian Roulette with an entire fishery.
If the bass population never collapsed in the past, then maybe you can stick to a "no way... never gonna happen" mentality... but it did, and it seems that some just refuse to accept the idea that bass are in any trouble at all.

Nailed it. Just like Nero fiddling while Rome burned.
1 @ 32 for all and 25% commercial. Note that 25% commercial does not have the same impact in every state, as in NY for example, it actually results in an increase over 2013 catch. I believe it's near 10%. Let's worry about the fish.

[MikeToole]

One of the problem with having different limits for the charters is it does not match any of the options put forth by ASMFC. You can not say for sure that 1 at 28 for Recreational and one of the other options such as 2 at 32 for the charters meets the 25% reduction. I would guess the state would have to take this back to ASMFC for approval. This may be why Virginia went with the 1 at 28 since their season is currently in progress and then they will look to change it next year.

buckman's statement "Those that accuse the charter guys of being greedy and then are asking for the stripers to be listed as " gamefish " are hypocrites.
They want the fish to themselves."

Just shows his ignorance to what is being said. If it was a game fish it would still be available to commercial fisherman and the charters. Just on a totally equal basis to everyone else. Everyone would have the exact same limit. Most of the people here are just asking for all recreational fisherman to have the same limit, not for game fish status. Most are looking for a one fish limit to protect and increase the fish numbers which in the end will help both the charters and commercials if the numbers increase.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by MikeToole

One of the problem with having different limits for the charters is it does not match any of the options put forth by ASMFC. You can not say for sure that 1 at 28 for Recreational and one of the other options such as 2 at 32 for the charters meets the 25% reduction. I would guess the state would have to take this back to ASMFC for approval. This may be why Virginia went with the 1 at 28 since their season is currently in progress and then they will look to change it next year.

buckman's statement "Those that accuse the charter guys of being greedy and then are asking for the stripers to be listed as " gamefish " are hypocrites.
They want the fish to themselves."

Just shows his ignorance to what is being said. If it was a game fish it would still be available to commercial fisherman and the charters. Just on a totally equal basis to everyone else. Everyone would have the exact same limit. Most of the people here are just asking for all recreational fisherman to have the same limit, not for game fish status. Most are looking for a one fish limit to protect and increase the fish numbers which in the end will help both the charters and commercials if the numbers increase.

Pardon my ignorance ... I'm pretty sure " gamefish status " would mean no commercial fishing or sales of striped bass.
Am I wrong ? No you are
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by buckman

Pardon my ignorance ... I'm pretty sure " gamefish status " would mean no commercial fishing or sales of striped bass.
Am I wrong ? No you are
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You are still missing the point. Game fish status would not prevent a commercial fisherman from catching fish for personal use, they would have the same exact right as a recreational fisherman. No, they would not be allowed to sell them but what you accused the recreational fisherman on this site of who don't think charters should have a different limit is wanting them all for themselves which is not true. Under game fish status everyone would be treated the same and have the same opportunity to take fish.

Plus, most as I noted are not asking for game fish status, they are just asking for an equal limit for all recreational fisherman of one fish, most haven't even commented on commercial fishing, just charters. People who go out on charters are nothing more then recreational fisherman and should be treated no different than other recreational fisherman be them shore bound or own their own boat.

[Jackbass]

Bottom line there was a public comment period 95% of those who commented decided that a 1@ option would be the best option for recreational anglers. If charter fares are recreational anglers they should abide by those rules. The opportunity to express an opinion otherwise was prior to x date. Now that the board has made a decision the state managers are saying we have heard from many voices that for hire vessels will be hurting if they can not continue with 2 per fare??? Let's explore CE. Ok so where were these voices and why were they not on record. It wasn't even close. Now we are dealing with this end around Monday Morning QB BS. The masses that followed the guidelines spoke their mind and supported one stance or another are now being told hey eff you we are going to do what the hell we feel like. If charter fares want a different limit then they need to be classified as something other than recreational. Their fish need to be counted and the numbers need to be applied to the overall quota in a different manner.

For every guy that is running two a day three a day trips with 6-10 fares there is also the big fleets running two or three with 3 mates a captain and 50 heads. It adds up to a s$&t ton of dead fish. Not saying shore and boat anglers don't take a ton either. I am simply saying everyone needs to play by the same rules if they are to be considered the same type of angler.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Clammer]

i read a update in a paper this morning but I don,t know how to transfer it ..

[JFigliuolo]

Originally Posted by Clammer

i read a update in a paper this morning but I don,t know how to transfer it ..

WHAT THE F(**(&^ !!!!!

Where's Clammer????? No way would he write a clear sentence.... NO WAY.

[paradoxjim]

Just some random thoughts; take them for what they're worth (not much?).

I was mate on a charter boat during the mid-80's. We did not target striped bass, but we did catch a lot of blues. The charters usually had us keep all of the fish, but when we got back to the dock, they did not want all of the fillet. This makes sense, right?

Same charter boat; we spent 6 weeks primarily targeting giant bluefin, per customer request. They would sign a release before the trip that the boat would own any fish caught. Fishing for no meat, just for the opportunity to battle a bluefin. Want to know how many days we went out and did not even have a bait hit? And the customers always tipped me, fish or no fish. I guess they had a good time spending their cash and catching nothing.

Limits are for honest anglers. Look through the police reports (RISAA newsletter makes it easy) and look at all of the dishonest anglers that are unlicensed keeping a variety of undersized fish and more than their limits. Do you think that they even care that there is a regulation?

Why not explore making recreational fisherman (that are honest!) be required to have a tag to kill a bass and bring it home? You'd have to buy them at the beginning of the year, when all of us honest guys buy our fishing licenses. I'd probably buy 2 for my family of 3. If I had a desire to eat more than that, I could buy fish at the market. If I didn't keep 2 fish during the year, oh well. More money in that "earmarked" fund for the state that gets funnelled into the general budget. At least with this kind of system, we could start to get an idea of how many dead fish honest fishermen would like to bring home in a year.

Yeah, I know. There is no budget to enforce any of it. I have encountered 2 environmental officers in the past 5 years. One on an October night at a popular beach location and once on a rainy October day at a Connecticut launch ramp. I had not kept any fish on either occasion, so they didn't have much to check.

Beat me up as you wish. I have thick skin.

[ivanputski]

If recreational regs are 1@28" and you are a recreational angler before you step on a charter boat, then you are still a recreational angler once aboard a charter boat.
A charter boat is not a magic portal to special rules that allow you to still kill 2 fish.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

Originally Posted by ivanputski

If recreational regs are 1@28" and you are a recreational angler before you step on a charter boat, then you are still a recreational angler once aboard a charter boat.
A charter boat is not a magic portal to special rules that allow you to still kill 2 fish.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

This will blow your mind then. They don't need a license either .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[ivanputski]

I know... Because they are covered under the umbrella of the boat
. A license doesnt kill or save fish, so If you are equating the license special treatment to the reg. special treatment, they are not equal.
Why? Because a license is not going to result in more or less dead fish. I made my point before that i dont care about dollars of ANY kind in this equation ( be it state license fees, charter income, whatever). All i care about right now is protecting fish that have no option to protect themselves from being wiped out.

Do you think the 2nd dead bass on board gives a crap if the guy has a license or not? The extra fish getting killed is the issue... I dont care one bit if i paid for a license and another guy didnt... I care about protecting bass right now.
Its all about the fish...

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

Originally Posted by ivanputski

Its all about the fish...

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

And there you have it ! That is where we differ . I think people can also be figured into the equation .
We are not talking about White Rhino here .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[ivanputski]

People can be figured in as population shows signs of recovery Sorry if that sounds cold, but 1@28" still allows you to operate. Adjusting in creative ways to sell the experience is not that hard.
If we have a 1980's repeat, people will be the only factor in the fishless equation.
Simply ignoring the decline and saying " aaahhhhh i'm not convinced there is even a problem" just seems crazy to me. Im not a charter captain, but i was able to think of half a dozen very creative and enticing marketing strategies that i would implement that would draw customers attention as well as my competitors. As a charter business, you need to know how to adjust to catch customers... Not just fish.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Linesider82]

I think 1 @ 28" or greater achieves that balance
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[ivanputski]

Buckman, we are just not going to agree, and i accept that. I respect your opinion, and i just pray that years from now you were right and i was wrong.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

Originally Posted by ivanputski

Buckman, we are just not going to agree, and i accept that. I respect your opinion, and i just pray that years from now you were right and i was wrong.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It's been a spirited debate . I think fish will be just fine .
25% should help immensely.
🍻
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[piemma]

Originally Posted by buckman

It's been a spirited debate . I think fish will be just fine .
25% should help immensely.
🍻
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Buckman, I also respect your opinion but I too do not think the bass are going to be fine and it's not about us. It's really about what's happening, as we speak, at Oregon Inlet. Chesapeake Bay, Virginia with trawlers.
Hell, I'm 67 and have caught more fish than I probably had a right to. I want to save the fish for the future generations but I really don't have much hope. For every fish we C&R in New England some a ssh ole in Virginia or DE or NC kills.

[stripermaineiac]

It's still just another commercial grab for more of the resourse at the expense of the fish.No matter what the numbers there.s always some group trying to grab more no matter how bad the fishing gets. Why do some of you guys think they're working to shut down recreational and part of commercial cod fishing. Nobody stopped till it was too late.We are the problem as we don't work together till it's too late. 1 fish 2 fish 3 fish it don't matter. The fishing is gettin worse no matter how deep the hole you stick your head in. Gamefish will help. Cut backs n limits will help. But we need to stop cheating to get more at the expense of the fish.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by stripermaineiac

Why do some of you guys think they're working to shut down recreational and part of commercial cod fishing. Nobody stopped till it was too late.We are the problem as we don't work together till it's too late. 1 fish 2 fish 3 fish it don't matter. The fishing is gettin worse no matter how deep the hole you stick your head in.

Cod were doing just fine on Stellwagen Bank until Jane Lubchenco and her brilliant Catch Share system allowed draggers to completely rape the bank of Cod...that is a fact. It wasn't the charters and wasn't the recs, it wasn't rod and reel...it was the draggers and although I don't have a charter business those charter guys and us rec guys got a bum deal with that...so all the blame for Cod is not on Recs or Charters, it's on mid water trawlers, sector boats etc being allowed by the government to come up here and wipe out Cod...many of these boats aren't even from anywhere near hear and their ports are far away...blame catch shares, Jane Lubchenco and the government for. that...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Raider Ronnie]

Why do some of you guys think they're working to shut down recreational and part of commercial cod fishing. Nobody stopped till it was too late.We are the problem as we don't work together till it's too late.


Is this a joke ???

[Nebe]

Catch shares sounded really good on paper. Far less discards. But I see why it failed.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Clammer]

Its doing a number on the winter Fluke off of RI .we are starting to see the results

[JoeG@Breezy]

So what will be different. Two fish will push us further towards a collapse. Even the scientists who will ultimately have to review the "state" requests will tell you the original 2 @ 28" has only a 50 % chance of success. The charter, headboats and private boaters kill most of the breeders and there's no denying that. So I ask..If you were standing in a firing squad lineup with Joe Blow, just 2 of you, and the shooter had one round, would you like your chances ? Stop the political and greed based BS and get back to being concerned with the resource. No one is going to pay $600 to go bluefishing or chasing fluke on a sustained basis.

[JoeG@Breezy]

Sorry ..that 1@28".

[Liv2Fish]

Originally Posted by JoeG@Breezy

No one is going to pay $600 to go bluefishing or chasing fluke on a sustained basis.

What he said. After the bass are all gone, I guess you could take them cod fishing, oh, wait…….