New Presidential (HA) Recruiter

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Breitbart isn't a trustworthy source, but the Washington Post is a non-partisan fact machine. They keep their cards really close to their vests over at the Washington Post, no way of telling which way they lean.

Anyway, from your link:

"the State Department stopped processing Iraq refugees for six months in 2011"

That's not a ban? How is it different from an immigration ban? Please explain. Good luck.

Do refugees have visas/green cards?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Do refugees have visas/green cards?

Is there a problem about green cards?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Do refugees have visas/green cards?

I presume that the people who Obama banned from coming from Iraq, didn't yet have visas or green cards. I also presume that the refugees that Trump wants to ban from coming, don't have them either.

I think you are desperate to find some difference between what Trump and Obama did, so that you can bash Trump while praising Obama.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I presume that the people who Obama banned from coming from Iraq, didn't yet have visas or green cards. I also presume that the refugees that Trump wants to ban from coming, don't have them either.

I think you are desperate to find some difference between what Trump and Obama did, so that you can bash Trump while praising Obama.

No, you are totally wrong. There is a huge difference between slowing down refugees and banning visa/greeen card users. In addition, Pres. Trump. also seems to have given preference to Christians.

So I guess I had luck in this discussion

Edit - I just read there was no period of time during the Obama admin. when there where no refugees admitted.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

In addition, Pres. Trump. also seems to have given preference to Christians.

call it "Affirmative Action" for Christians ...should make it more palatable to the left

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

No, you are totally wrong. There is a huge difference between slowing down refugees and banning visa/greeen card users. In addition, Pres. Trump. also seems to have given preference to Christians.

So I guess I had luck in this discussion

"There is a huge difference between slowing down refugees and banning visa/greeen card users"

Please explain. Repeating your claim, isn't supporting it. I don't even know which POTUS did what in your example, I truly do not.

"Pres. Trump. also seems to have given preference to Christians."

I said that makes me uneasy. But Obama also gave preference to Christians, when he chose to only drop bombs on Muslims. Right?

At this point in time, on this planet, one religion is inspiring violent jihad. We can pretend that's not true for the sake of political correctness, or we can accept it.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Here is the entire text of Trump's executive order. Nowhere in the text does it use the word "Ban","Muslim" or "Christian"


PROTECTING THE NATION FROM FOREIGN TERRORIST ENTRY INTO THE UNITED STATES

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, including the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 U.S.C. 1101 et seq., and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, and to protect the American people from terrorist attacks by foreign nationals admitted to the United States, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. Purpose. The visa-issuance process plays a crucial role in detecting individuals with terrorist ties and stopping them from entering the United States. Perhaps in no instance was that more apparent than the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, when State Department policy prevented consular officers from properly scrutinizing the visa applications of several of the 19 foreign nationals who went on to murder nearly 3,000 Americans. And while the visa-issuance process was reviewed and amended after the September 11 attacks to better detect would-be terrorists from receiving visas, these measures did not stop attacks by foreign nationals who were admitted to the United States.

Numerous foreign-born individuals have been convicted or implicated in terrorism-related crimes since September 11, 2001, including foreign nationals who entered the United States after receiving visitor, student, or employment visas, or who entered through the United States refugee resettlement program. Deteriorating conditions in certain countries due to war, strife, disaster, and civil unrest increase the likelihood that terrorists will use any means possible to enter the United States. The United States must be vigilant during the visa-issuance process to ensure that those approved for admission do not intend to harm Americans and that they have no ties to terrorism.

In order to protect Americans, the United States must ensure that those admitted to this country do not bear hostile attitudes toward it and its founding principles. The United States cannot, and should not, admit those who do not support the Constitution, or those who would place violent ideologies over American law. In addition, the United States should not admit those who engage in acts of bigotry or hatred (including "honor" killings, other forms of violence against women, or the persecution of those who practice religions different from their own) or those who would oppress Americans of any race, gender, or sexual orientation.

Sec. 2. Policy. It is the policy of the United States to protect its citizens from foreign nationals who intend to commit terrorist attacks in the United States; and to prevent the admission of foreign nationals who intend to exploit United States immigration laws for malevolent purposes.

Sec. 3. Suspension of Issuance of Visas and Other Immigration Benefits to Nationals of Countries of Particular Concern. (a) The Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, shall immediately conduct a review to determine the information needed from any country to adjudicate any visa, admission, or other benefit under the INA (adjudications) in order to determine that the individual seeking the benefit is who the individual claims to be and is not a security or public-safety threat.

(b) The Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, shall submit to the President a report on the results of the review described in subsection (a) of this section, including the Secretary of Homeland Security's determination of the information needed for adjudications and a list of countries that do not provide adequate information, within 30 days of the date of this order. The Secretary of Homeland Security shall provide a copy of the report to the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence.

(c) To temporarily reduce investigative burdens on relevant agencies during the review period described in subsection (a) of this section, to ensure the proper review and maximum utilization of available resources for the screening of foreign nationals, and to ensure that adequate standards are established to prevent infiltration by foreign terrorists or criminals, pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order (excluding those foreign nationals traveling on diplomatic visas, North Atlantic Treaty Organization visas, C-2 visas for travel to the United Nations, and G-1, G-2, G-3, and G-4 visas).

(d) Immediately upon receipt of the report described in subsection (b) of this section regarding the information needed for adjudications, the Secretary of State shall request all foreign governments that do not supply such information to start providing such information regarding their nationals within 60 days of notification.

(e) After the 60-day period described in subsection (d) of this section expires, the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State, shall submit to the President a list of countries recommended for inclusion on a Presidential proclamation that would prohibit the entry of foreign nationals (excluding those foreign nationals traveling on diplomatic visas, North Atlantic Treaty Organization visas, C-2 visas for travel to the United Nations, and G-1, G-2, G-3, and G-4 visas) from countries that do not provide the information requested pursuant to subsection (d) of this section until compliance occurs.

(f) At any point after submitting the list described in subsection (e) of this section, the Secretary of State or the Secretary of Homeland Security may submit to the President the names of any additional countries recommended for similar treatment.

(g) Notwithstanding a suspension pursuant to subsection (c) of this section or pursuant to a Presidential proclamation described in subsection (e) of this section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may, on a case-by-case basis, and when in the national interest, issue visas or other immigration benefits to nationals of countries for which visas and benefits are otherwise blocked.

(h) The Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall submit to the President a joint report on the progress in implementing this order within 30 days of the date of this order, a second report within 60 days of the date of this order, a third report within 90 days of the date of this order, and a fourth report within 120 days of the date of this order.

Sec. 4. Implementing Uniform Screening Standards for All Immigration Programs. (a) The Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Director of National Intelligence, and the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation shall implement a program, as part of the adjudication process for immigration benefits, to identify individuals seeking to enter the United States on a fraudulent basis with the intent to cause harm, or who are at risk of causing harm subsequent to their admission. This program will include the development of a uniform screening standard and procedure, such as in-person interviews; a database of identity documents proffered by applicants to ensure that duplicate documents are not used by multiple applicants; amended application forms that include questions aimed at identifying fraudulent answers and malicious intent; a mechanism to ensure that the applicant is who the applicant claims to be; a process to evaluate the applicant's likelihood of becoming a positively contributing member of society and the applicant's ability to make contributions to the national interest; and a mechanism to assess whether or not the applicant has the intent to commit criminal or terrorist acts after entering the United States.

(b) The Secretary of Homeland Security, in conjunction with the Secretary of State, the Director of National Intelligence, and the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, shall submit to the President an initial report on the progress of this directive within 60 days of the date of this order, a second report within 100 days of the date of this order, and a third report within 200 days of the date of this order.

Sec. 5. Realignment of the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program for Fiscal Year 2017. (a) The Secretary of State shall suspend the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program (USRAP) for 120 days. During the 120-day period, the Secretary of State, in conjunction with the Secretary of Homeland Security and in consultation with the Director of National Intelligence, shall review the USRAP application and adjudication process to determine what additional procedures should be taken to ensure that those approved for refugee admission do not pose a threat to the security and welfare of the United States, and shall implement such additional procedures. Refugee applicants who are already in the USRAP process may be admitted upon the initiation and completion of these revised procedures. Upon the date that is 120 days after the date of this order, the Secretary of State shall resume USRAP admissions only for nationals of countries for which the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, and the Director of National Intelligence have jointly determined that such additional procedures are adequate to ensure the security and welfare of the United States.

(b) Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual's country of nationality. Where necessary and appropriate, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall recommend legislation to the President that would assist with such prioritization.

(c) Pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the entry of nationals of Syria as refugees is detrimental to the interests of the United States and thus suspend any such entry until such time as I have determined that sufficient changes have been made to the USRAP to ensure that admission of Syrian refugees is consistent with the national interest.

(d) Pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the entry of more than 50,000 refugees in fiscal year 2017 would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and thus suspend any such entry until such time as I determine that additional admissions would be in the national interest.

(e) Notwithstanding the temporary suspension imposed pursuant to subsection (a) of this section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may jointly determine to admit individuals to the United States as refugees on a case-by-case basis, in their discretion, but only so long as they determine that the admission of such individuals as refugees is in the national interest -- including when the person is a religious minority in his country of nationality facing religious persecution, when admitting the person would enable the United States to conform its conduct to a preexisting international agreement, or when the person is already in transit and denying admission would cause undue hardship -- and it would not pose a risk to the security or welfare of the United States.

(f) The Secretary of State shall submit to the President an initial report on the progress of the directive in subsection (b) of this section regarding prioritization of claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution within 100 days of the date of this order and shall submit a second report within 200 days of the date of this order.

(g) It is the policy of the executive branch that, to the extent permitted by law and as practicable, State and local jurisdictions be granted a role in the process of determining the placement or settlement in their jurisdictions of aliens eligible to be admitted to the United States as refugees. To that end, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall examine existing law to determine the extent to which, consistent with applicable law, State and local jurisdictions may have greater involvement in the process of determining the placement or resettlement of refugees in their jurisdictions, and shall devise a proposal to lawfully promote such involvement.

Sec. 6. Rescission of Exercise of Authority Relating to the Terrorism Grounds of Inadmissibility. The Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall, in consultation with the Attorney General, consider rescinding the exercises of authority in section 212 of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182, relating to the terrorism grounds of inadmissibility, as well as any related implementing memoranda.

Sec. 7. Expedited Completion of the Biometric Entry-Exit Tracking System. (a) The Secretary of Homeland Security shall expedite the completion and implementation of a biometric entry-exit tracking system for all travelers to the United States, as recommended by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States.

(b) The Secretary of Homeland Security shall submit to the President periodic reports on the progress of the directive contained in subsection (a) of this section. The initial report shall be submitted within 100 days of the date of this order, a second report shall be submitted within 200 days of the date of this order, and a third report shall be submitted within 365 days of the date of this order. Further, the Secretary shall submit a report every 180 days thereafter until the system is fully deployed and operational.

Sec. 8. Visa Interview Security. (a) The Secretary of State shall immediately suspend the Visa Interview Waiver Program and ensure compliance with section 222 of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1222, which requires that all individuals seeking a nonimmigrant visa undergo an in-person interview, subject to specific statutory exceptions.

(b) To the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations, the Secretary of State shall immediately expand the Consular Fellows Program, including by substantially increasing the number of Fellows, lengthening or making permanent the period of service, and making language training at the Foreign Service Institute available to Fellows for assignment to posts outside of their area of core linguistic ability, to ensure that non-immigrant visa-interview wait times are not unduly affected.

Sec. 9. Visa Validity Reciprocity. The Secretary of State shall review all nonimmigrant visa reciprocity agreements to ensure that they are, with respect to each visa classification, truly reciprocal insofar as practicable with respect to validity period and fees, as required by sections 221(c) and 281 of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1201(c) and 1351, and other treatment. If a country does not treat United States nationals seeking nonimmigrant visas in a reciprocal manner, the Secretary of State shall adjust the visa validity period, fee schedule, or other treatment to match the treatment of United States nationals by the foreign country, to the extent practicable.

[scottw]

[QUOTE=The Dad Fisherman;1116023]Here is the entire text of Trump's executive order. Nowhere in the text does it use the word "Ban","Muslim" or "Christian"


right....but it "seems" as though he "appears" to imply those things...at least to some... one of whom may be currently huddled in a corner of an igloo somewhere in Canada hugging a Hillary doll....

[Jim in CT]

[QUOTE=scottw;1116027]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Here is the entire text of Trump's executive order. Nowhere in the text does it use the word "Ban","Muslim" or "Christian"


right....but it "seems" as though he "appears" to imply those things...at least to some... one of whom may be currently huddled in a corner of an igloo somewhere in Canada hugging a Hillary doll....

That almost made me pee my pants.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Here is the entire text of Trump's executive order. Nowhere in the text does it use the word "Ban","Muslim" or "Christian"

Correct sir,

yet minds are being lost



looks like a suspension to issue visas to me from certain countries

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

Correct sir,

yet minds are being lost



looks like a suspension to issue visas to me from certain countries

Looks like even Pres. Trump was calling it a ban (amd Jim referred to it as a ban).

If the ban were announced with a one week notice, the "bad" would rush into our country during that week. A lot of bad "dudes" out there!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 30, 2017

And that he wants to "prioritize Christians"

Trump hinted that he would be prioritizing Christians before the order was released on Friday. Here's the transcript of Trump's exchange with the Christian Broadcasting Network's David Brody:
BRODY: "Persecuted Christians, we've talked about this, the refugees overseas. The refugee program, or the refugee changes you're looking to make. As it relates to persecuted Christians, do you see them as kind of a priority here?"
TRUMP: "Yes."
BRODY: "You do?"
TRUMP: "They've been horribly treated. Do you know if you were a Christian in Syria it was impossible, at least very tough to get into the United States? If you were a Muslim you could come in, but if you were a Christian, it was almost impossible and the reason that was so unfair, everybody was persecuted in all fairness, but they were chopping off the heads of everybody but more so the Christians. And I thought it was very, very unfair. So we are going to help them."

[The Dad Fisherman]

Sec. 10. Transparency and Data Collection. (a) To be more transparent with the American people, and to more effectively implement policies and practices that serve the national interest, the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Attorney General, shall, consistent with applicable law and national security, collect and make publicly available within 180 days, and every 180 days thereafter:

(i) information regarding the number of foreign nationals in the United States who have been charged with terrorism-related offenses while in the United States; convicted of terrorism-related offenses while in the United States; or removed from the United States based on terrorism-related activity, affiliation, or material support to a terrorism-related organization, or any other national security reasons since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later;

(ii) information regarding the number of foreign nationals in the United States who have been radicalized after entry into the United States and engaged in terrorism-related acts, or who have provided material support to terrorism-related organizations in countries that pose a threat to the United States, since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later; and

(iii) information regarding the number and types of acts of gender-based violence against women, including honor killings, in the United States by foreign nationals, since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later; and

(iv) any other information relevant to public safety and security as determined by the Secretary of Homeland Security and the Attorney General, including information on the immigration status of foreign nationals charged with major offenses.

(b) The Secretary of State shall, within one year of the date of this order, provide a report on the estimated long-term costs of the USRAP at the Federal, State, and local levels.

Sec. 11. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

DONALD J. TRUMP
THE WHITE HOUSE, January 27, 2017

[detbuch]

Green card holders were not specifically noted in the executive order. But if there arose a question about it, or any other exceptions, the order allowed Homeland security to determine eligibility case by case, which would allow green card holders who did not pose some apparent threat to be allowed back in:

Section 4(e) of the order: Notwithstanding the temporary suspension imposed pursuant to subsection (a) of this section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may jointly determine to admit individuals to the United States as refugees on a case-by-case basis, in their discretion, but only so long as they determine that the admission of such individuals as refugees is in the national interest -- including when the person is a religious minority in his country of nationality facing religious persecution, when admitting the person would enable the United States to conform its conduct to a preexisting international agreement, or when the person is already in transit and denying admission would cause undue hardship -- and it would not pose a risk to the security or welfare of the United States.

So, per that, green card holders are not being denied entry. And, although the Exec Order does not specify Christians as possible exceptions to denial of entry, the order does specify religious minorities facing persecution in the specified countries. Christians, and Yazidis, certainly fit that category.

[Slipknot]

I don't tweet,
and I am not offended by how crass Trump is or by his political incorrectness. I have seen enough of this countries' safety and security for it's actual citizens put in the way back seat for too long now. The refugees should go to Saudi Arabia where it is closer and they have space all set up for plenty, why do we always have to be the savior of the world? It's about time our leader puts America first at something. I am too busy to know all the ins and outs of your issues with things, that is why we have government to do that and journalists to report it, if there wasn't so much greed and corruption, then the country might not be as divided as it has gotten over the last 8 years. Forgive me for thinking out loud but it's time to take back America or lose it to the power control freakin billionaires.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

IThe refugees should go to Saudi Arabia where it is closer and they have space all set up for plenty, why do we always have to be the savior of the world? It's about time our leader puts America first at something.

You may get your wish . . . sort of. Reuters reported that Trump made a phone call today to king Salman of Saudi Arabia who agreed to supporting safe zones for the refugees in Syria and Yemen.

[Jim in CT]

A Trump lawyer was on CNN, saying unequivocally, that the order does not prevent existing green card holders from entering the country. Not vouching for the guy, but he said what Detbuch did, and the CNN host had nothing to challenge him.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

A Trump lawyer was on CNN, saying unequivocally, that the order does not prevent existing green card holders from entering the country. Not vouching for the guy, but he said what Detbuch did, and the CNN host had nothing to challenge him.

It originally did and then at some point they changed so that it did not cover green cards. I haven't heard about visas but would guess they are being treated the same as green cards.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

It originally did and then at some point they changed so that it did not cover green cards. I haven't heard about visas but would guess they are being treated the same as green cards.

So your whole premise was wrong.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

So your whole premise was wrong.

Not at all. It shows how badly it was rolled out.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

It originally did and then at some point they changed so that it did not cover green cards. I haven't heard about visas but would guess they are being treated the same as green cards.

Please show me where Trump's original, released, executive order mentioned Green cards? and why now it doesn't?

I'm pretty sure if there was a newer EO released we would have heard all about it.

your post also tells me you never read the EO that he released because he does address VISA's in it.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Please show me where Trump's original, released, executive order mentioned Green cards? and why now it doesn't? Is this like your statement earlier saying it never mentioned a ban or didn't favor Christians when infact both of those were the intent.

I'm pretty sure if there was a newer EO released we would have heard all about it.

your post also tells me you never read the EO that he released because he does address VISA's in it.

Your right I didn't - big deal, I was going by what the President's admin. was saying. If they all aren't on the same page, I guess that is something they need to work out. They are saying today it was rolled out badly. Dept. heads heard about it at the same time it they were being briefed.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Your right I didn't - big deal, I was going by what the President's admin. was saying. If they all aren't on the same page, I guess that is something they need to work out. They are saying today it was rolled out badly. Dept. heads heard about it at the same time it they were being briefed.

keep moving the goal posts

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Is this like your statement earlier saying it never mentioned a ban or didn't favor Christians when infact both of those were the intent. .

There's that word "Intent" again....amazing how that word was completely lost during the Hillary e-mail scandal, but *POOF* it's back

Trump's EO didn't mention a ban, Muslims, Christians, or Green Cards....but you didn't even read it....so you're arguments are falling on completely deaf ears.

Originally Posted by PaulS

Your right I didn't - big deal, I was going by what the President's admin. was saying. If they all aren't on the same page, I guess that is something they need to work out. They are saying today it was rolled out badly. Dept. heads heard about it at the same time it they were being briefed.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

It originally did and then at some point they changed so that it did not cover green cards. I haven't heard about visas but would guess they are being treated the same as green cards.

OK. So as Trump's ban stands now, how is it materially different from what Obama did in Iraq, or what Bill Clinton did in Sierra Leone?

[Jim in CT]

"We’re waiting for the briefing tomorrow, a pause may be necessary. We’re going to look at it." -Senator Charles Schumer in 2015, acknowledging that the U.S. might have to stop importing Syrian refugees after the horrific Paris terrorist attack.

"We must tighten loopholes in the Visa Waiver prgm, ensure passports can’t be faked & stop terrorists who want to exploit the system." -the same Charles Schumer, in a subsequent "tweet"

"“This executive order was mean-spirited and un-American." -the very same Charles Schumer earlier today.

Funny how he evolved on the subject, as soon as a Republican took the oath.

[wdmso]

I guess the real question is How afraid are you of the Big bad wolf and what are you willing to give up .. to not be afraid of the big bad wolf ...

personally the big bad wolf is a creation to gain control.. its created to keep people in Fear so they can do as they wish .. all in the name of Security the same thing happen after 9-11 but every one forgets that power grab ....

Obama didn't get a free pass Nor will Trump with his executive orders especially
the one's his own departments are confused on how and who to apply them

[scottw]

the big bad wolf is definitely the real question.......the Brothers Grimm were quite devious

[wdmso]

This was posted by my Battalion commander who I served with in Iraq who is now a Fullbird Col at Fort Stewart GA I think it shows my big bad wolf analogy..

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

This was posted by my Battalion commander who I served with in Iraq who is now a Fullbird Col at Fort Stewart GA I think it shows my big bad wolf analogy..

the big bad wolf wasn't driving around with a COEXIST bumper sticker on the back of his Subaru

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

I guess the real question is How afraid are you of the Big bad wolf and what are you willing to give up .. to not be afraid of the big bad wolf ...

personally the big bad wolf is a creation to gain control.. its created to keep people in Fear so they can do as they wish .. all in the name of Security the same thing happen after 9-11 but every one forgets that power grab ....

Obama didn't get a free pass Nor will Trump with his executive orders especially
the one's his own departments are confused on how and who to apply them

"personally the big bad wolf is a creation to gain control"

I see. The threat of Islamic jihad, is a fabrication, designed to gain control. Tell that to the people who had their legs blown off at the Boston Marathon. Tell that to the people who jumped out of the World Trade Center.