New Presidential (HA) Recruiter

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"There is a huge difference between slowing down refugees and banning visa/greeen card users"

Please explain. Repeating your claim, isn't supporting it. I don't even know which POTUS did what in your example, I truly do not.

.

So your argueing something w/o knowing the facts? Refugee, green card/visa holder are not the same. - that is the difference and it is a big difference. One of those links I provided even said something like "people are conflating refugees and green card holders". And while I believe you mentioned it bothers you, Pres. Obama did not give preference to Christians.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So your argueing something w/o knowing the facts? Refugee, green card/visa holder are not the same. - that is the difference and it is a big difference. One of those links I provided even said something like "people are conflating refugees and green card holders". And while I believe you mentioned it bothers you, Pres. Obama did not give preference to Christians.

I know the important facts, I don't think I am aware of meaningless details. I don't know what kind of tie each POTUS was wearing when he signed the order, for instance. Because it doesn't matter.

So which POTUS banned those with green cards, and which banned those without green cards. And why is one an example of brilliant foreign policy, while the other is a moral abomination?

"Pres. Obama did not give preference to Christians"

He didn't bomb any. He bombed a whole lot of Muslims. Bombing terrorists involves collateral damage to other, innocent Muslims.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I know the important factsno, you don't know the important facts.I've attempted to point them out to you a few times., I don't think I am aware of meaningless detailswrong - I attempted to get out my crayons but you don't seem to recognize the difference.. I don't know what kind of tie each POTUS was wearing when he signed the order, for instance. Because it doesn't matter.

So which POTUS banned those with green cards, and which banned those without green cards. And why is one an example of brilliant foreign policy, while the other is a moral abomination?

"Pres. Obama did not give preference to Christians"

He didn't bomb any. He bombed a whole lot of Muslims. Bombing terrorists involves collateral damage to other, innocent Muslims.

nm

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

nm

OK, I asked in good faith, 3 times, why there is a vast moral difference between banning refugees and banning those with green cards. All you can say is "there is a difference". You literally offered nothing more than that.

Detbuch's post says that Trump's order does not deny entry to those with green cards.

In both cases, Obama/Trump halted immigration from war-torn places. Though both did it for security reasons, both also had the effect of increasing the suffering to some innocent victims who would have benefitted from coming here. Paul, is that true or false?

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

OK, I asked in good faith, 3 times, why there is a vast moral difference between banning refugees and banning those with green cards. All you can say is "there is a difference". You literally offered nothing more than that. I've told you why it is different and why that difference matters yet you expect me to do all the work for you.

Detbuch's post says that Trump's order does not deny entry to those with green cards.It certainly did. I understand that Reince later walked the intent of the order due to the backlash.

In both cases, Obama/Trump halted immigration from war-torn places. Though both did it for security reasons, both also had the effect of increasing the suffering to some innocent victims who would have benefitted from coming here. Paul, is that true or false?

100% False - With Pres. Obama it wasn't a halt - it slowed it down. And it didn't ban greencard holders like this order did.

And I've heard for 8 years about Pres. Obama's used of executive orders. How many has Pres. Trump issued in the first week?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

100% F

And I've heard for 8 years about Pres. Obama's used of executive orders. How many has Pres. Trump issued in the first week?

not nearly enough...but give him time

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

100% False - With Pres. Obama it wasn't a halt - it slowed it down. And it didn't ban greencard holders like this order did.

And I've heard for 8 years about Pres. Obama's used of executive orders. How many has Pres. Trump issued in the first week?

"I've told you why it is different "

Here's all your posts on the subject.

"it did not effect people w/green cards or visas like this did." - no explanation of why they are different, just a statement that they are different.

"I think the entry of green card and visa holders was not impacted also"

"I told you - visas and greencards"

"Do refugees have visas/green cards?"

"There is a huge difference between slowing down refugees and banning visa/greeen card users" No mention of what the difference is, exactly.

"Refugee, green card/visa holder are not the same. - that is the difference and it is a big difference" Again, no details as to what the difference is.

"I've told you why it is different and why that difference matters" - I would love to see where you told me that.

"And it (Obama's order) didn't ban greencard holders like this order did."

So which post exactly, explains what the difference is, and why that difference matters?

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"I've told you why it is different "

Here's all your posts on the subject.

"it did not effect people w/green cards or visas like this did." - no explanation of why they are different, just a statement that they are different.so, let me get out the crayons - 1 impacted "green cards/visas" and 1 did not.

"I think the entry of green card and visa holders was not impacted also"

"I told you - visas and greencards"

"Do refugees have visas/green cards?"

"There is a huge difference between slowing down refugees and banning visa/greeen card users" No mention of what the difference is, exactly.

"Refugee, green card/visa holder are not the same. - that is the difference and it is a big difference" Again, no details as to what the difference is.

"I've told you why it is different and why that difference matters" - I would love to see where you told me that.

"And it (Obama's order) didn't ban greencard holders like this order did."

So which post exactly, explains what the difference is, and why that difference matters?

So you want me to explain the difference bt a refugee and a green card/visa holder? As I've stated numerous times 1 impacted visa and green card holders and 1 did not. That is the key.

Also as I mentioned, there was never a "ban" during Pres. Obama's time. Only a slowdown.

[Got Stripers]

My initial post seems to only be a springboard for the ongoing battle I see waging on this political forum, but IMHO and many share it as well, is that this ban will only strengthen the resolve of the terrorists this ban is supposed to protect us from.

Trump couldn't give the radicals recruitment efforts a better boast and considering a lot of these terrorists have and will be home grown, why would we carelessly implement something that will only make it that much easier to convert a US citizen to join their cause.

I'm all for making damn sure we know exactly who is coming and going into this country and homeland security absolutely must be a major priority for any administration in this fd up world we live in, but this move is not making us safer. If I were the IT manager for the radical Islamic nut jobs, man did my job just get easier, see the evil Americans go. If I were a Muslim living in this country, citizen or not, boy not only would I be losing sleep; I'd be getting some better home security of my own.

I'm not sleeping any easier and the fire first ask questions later mentality is dangerous at best. I just see this getting uglier as we go forward, too many people on the streets and too much hatred in the air; man I need a Super Bowl to get positive.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

this ban will only strengthen the resolve of the terrorists this ban is supposed to protect us from.

.

But everything we do angers them. The only way we can get them to stop recruiting jihadists, is to adopt Sharia law, and then nuke Israel. Should we do that to appease them? Obama (to his credit) bomber the bejeezus out of these people for 8 years, and no one criticized him on the grounds that it would be used as effective recruiting.

We let our daughters learn to read, and we don't mutilate their genitalia. That is also used by these barbarians to recruit jihadists.

That's the point. Everything we do that is civilized, makes them (some of them) want to kill us. We will never convince them otherwise. Never.

Our goal shouldn't be to minimize the extent to which we anger these people. The goal is to wipe them off the face of the earth.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

this ban will only strengthen the resolve of the terrorists this ban is supposed to protect us from.

.

if you've reached the point in your life where you've become a terrorist...I don't think you require any additional motivation...you are at "maximum resolve"

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Refugee, green card/visa holder are not the same. - that is the difference and it is a big difference.

they are spelled differently too

[Slipknot]

the internet is ruining society

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

the internet is ruining society

or at least this site.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

the internet is ruining society

blame Al Gore...he invented it

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Pres. Obama did not give preference to Christians.

that's because he is a muslim?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So your argueing something w/o knowing the facts? Refugee, green card/visa holder are not the same. - that is the difference and it is a big difference. One of those links I provided even said something like "people are conflating refugees and green card holders". And while I believe you mentioned it bothers you, Pres. Obama did not give preference to Christians.

You keep bringing up the green card thing. That has been cleared up, and the executive order did not deny entry by green card holders. Green card holders have already been vetted and legally accepted. "Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly, who wrote, 'In applying the provisions of the president’s executive order, I hereby deem the entry of lawful permanent residents to be in the national interest.'” The administration explained that full details of the plan could not be broadcasted a week ahead of implementation because that would have given the "bad guys a week to get in. Take it or leave it, believe or don't, in either case the matter has been resolved.