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Old 09-10-2013, 01:35 PM   #31
Jim in CT
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Originally Posted by spence View Post
You pass a UN mandate to collect and destroy them with conditions for repercussions on any use or possession post mandate.


The point of air strikes would be sufficient punishment that Syria didn't use them again. If they voluntarily give them up that has been accomplished with much less risk of escalation.

It's an implicit acknowledgment by Russia that the attack wasn't a rebel stunt as was proposed. Assad is slapped with a UN resolution that will limit his military options and leaves the door open for further action depending on future humanitarian issues.

Putin doesn't really gain anything, Assad loses and Obama doesn't have to face a potential backlash...USA wins.

-spence
"Putin doesn't really gain anything"

Putin pulls of a stunt where his pal Assas esentially gets a pass for gassing civilians, while Obama has egg on his face to the world. That's not Putin 'winning' anything?

"Obama doesn't have to face a potential backlash"

Of course he will, as Obama's credibility as a force to be reckoned with has beed eroded, if it was there to begin with. The would-be Assad's out there will be emboldened by this.

"Assad loses "

Loses what? Assad gets to remain in power, he gets essentially a free pass for gassing his own people? You yourself said here that what these guys want more than anything, is to remain in control. So by your own words, Asad retains that which matters most to him. So what's his punishment for gassing little kids, that maybe he gives up his chemical weapons, forcing him to go back to shooting little kids like he has done for years?
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Old 09-10-2013, 02:03 PM   #32
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Also...Drudge's "checkmate" is very premature.

Russia is going to fight a UN resolution with any teeth...Syria has totally jumped the gun by agreeing in principal to give up WMD. Now that it's on the table it gives Obama A LOT of leverage to demand a UN mandate with a military option.

How does Russia veto that? Is Putin still smirking?

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Old 09-10-2013, 02:07 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by spence View Post
You pass a UN mandate to collect and destroy them with conditions for repercussions on any use or possession post mandate.


The point of air strikes would be sufficient punishment that Syria didn't use them again. If they voluntarily give them up that has been accomplished with much less risk of escalation.

It's an implicit acknowledgment by Russia that the attack wasn't a rebel stunt as was proposed. Assad is slapped with a UN resolution that will limit his military options and leaves the door open for further action depending on future humanitarian issues.

Putin doesn't really gain anything, Assad loses and Obama doesn't have to face a potential backlash...USA wins.

-spence
It is a proven stall tactic! Where do you think Assad aquired these weapons..... Hmmmm Russia maybe .
Russia isn't aknowledging anything but they are volunteering to look over the hen .
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Old 09-10-2013, 02:46 PM   #34
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FYI part of the agreement and the resolution coming out of the UN will include banning America from dropping any bombs on Syria.
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Old 09-10-2013, 03:17 PM   #35
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Or...it could be some brilliant political maneuvering in a nearly impossible situation with significant consequences.

If Obama can negotiate via Russia a WMD disarmament without force that would be huge. It also draws a very clear line for future action that even UN veto darlings won't be able to contain.

Hell, it has the potential to stall the entire civil war and the rise of radicalism underway.

I remember just after 9/11 thanking the expert foreign policy team Bush had in place...and look what happened then.

Perhaps these people are a hell of a lot smarter than you're giving them credit for.

-spence
Yeah they are unsung heroes. Politicians never toot their own horns to make themselves look better.

Come back to earth man!
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Old 09-10-2013, 03:19 PM   #36
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"What a fine mess you have gotten us into this time, Ollie."

If you voted for hope and change, here it is. You hope and it changes every 30 seconds.

Spence, saved again from answering the question with the turn of the page.

" Choose Life "
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Old 09-10-2013, 04:03 PM   #37
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This is great, big bro Russia isn't playing ball with the UN and Syria is officially in a panic.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...-arms-ban?lite

So much for Obama's red line not producing anything.

Assad is probably watching the feed on Drudge and thinks Obama has lost it

-spence
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Old 09-10-2013, 04:19 PM   #38
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I think that Barry and Putin should play a game of "horse", or first one to twenty one buys the brewskis. Then have Professor Gates moderate a discussion in the Rose Garden. We'll find the real man between them.
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Old 09-10-2013, 04:48 PM   #39
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FYI part of the agreement and the resolution coming out of the UN will include banning America from dropping any bombs on Syria.
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Just the opposite.
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Old 09-10-2013, 08:17 PM   #40
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Obama has more excuses than a pregnant nun…….he's a joke. Putin won this round and this whole thing is playing out his way. Obama is his little puppet.......Obama continues to make promises he can't keep. He has no balls.

"I know a taxidermy man back home. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him!"
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:03 PM   #41
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Just the opposite.
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Wait and see. Without it Russia is not going to agree to anything.
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:51 AM   #42
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Is Putin still smirking?

-spence
yup.....especially after the Peacock in the Headlights blathered on last night accomplishing little and swaying few.....lost his mojo...

I was initially upset over the "my friends on the right and left" portion of the speech suggesting that his "friends" were either trigger happy war mongers or champions of freedom and dignity depending on which side of the aisle they occupy and certainly not both...he rarely misses an opportunity to be divisive....soooo..if you don't support the Peacock and you are a rightie friend I guess that means you aren't all that trigger happy after all otherwise you'd be chomping at the bit to flex some "military might"....

but if you don't support the president and you are a leftie friend you must lack compassion and not have a heart and probably don't care about freedom and human dignity....

I think the leftie friends should be far more offended than the rightie friends

"And so, to my friends on the right, I ask you to reconcile your commitment to America’s military might with a failure to act when a cause is so plainly just. To my friends on the left, I ask you to reconcile your belief in freedom and dignity for all people with those images of children writhing in pain, and going still on a cold hospital floor."

ouch....that hurts

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Old 09-11-2013, 07:56 AM   #43
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I was initially upset over the "my friends on the right and left" portion of the speech suggesting that his "friends" were either trigger happy war mongers or champions of freedom and dignity depending on which side of the aisle they occupy and certainly not both...he rarely misses an opportunity to be divisive....
Yes, that statement stood out like a sore thumb. As usual, appealing to the
emotional left as if everyone should make decisions on emotion. IMHO
the worst thing you can do is make a decision based on emotion, you need to
step back and look at the whole picture, which in this case with a very small strike would accomplish nothing, except to save face for him.

As far as the speech, there was nothing new. It was a waste of the first 15 minutes
of Gunsmoke.

" Choose Life "
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:46 AM   #44
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Complete Embarrasment.......
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:29 AM   #45
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He booked the time and he incoherently rambled his way through. I have a feeling Kerry's doing the same as we speak
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Old 09-11-2013, 10:22 AM   #46
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Wait and see. Without it Russia is not going to agree to anything.
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The important aspect is that the situation while still complex has moved towards the middle making a diplomatic solution more realistic.

Interesting comments by David Ignatius yesterday in the Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...9d0_story.html

-spence
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Old 09-11-2013, 10:36 AM   #47
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The important aspect is that the situation while still complex has moved towards the middle making a diplomatic solution more realistic.

Interesting comments by David Ignatius yesterday in the Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...9d0_story.html

-spence
Define middle ! And then define solution ! A solution usually means you fixed something tangible . And I don't consider this egomaniac's ass tangible .
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Old 09-11-2013, 10:51 AM   #48
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Define middle ! And then define solution ! A solution usually means you fixed something tangible . And I don't consider this egomaniac's ass tangible .
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The something tangible is successfully deterring another chemical weapons attack. The solution is doing it legally and voluntarily via UN Mandate.

There's a long way to go to make this happen but being closer to the middle is a step in the right direction.

-spence
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:02 AM   #49
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The something tangible is successfully deterring another chemical weapons attack. The solution is doing it legally and voluntarily via UN Mandate.

There's a long way to go to make this happen but being closer to the middle is a step in the right direction.

-spence
I hope you're right for a change spence
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:31 PM   #50
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I think we are actively orchestrating a scenario whereby Russia will move large numbers of troops into Syria (under the disguise of chem weapons police) and look like heroes for doing it. this will cement Assad's hold on the country , allow Russia to gain huge influence in the Arab world , prevent us from ever making a strike on Syria because we can't risk any possible casualties on Russian "observers". Good old B. Hussein Obama is giving away the whole show to save face.

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Old 09-11-2013, 01:34 PM   #51
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Sounds good to me. Let Russia deal with that #^&#^&#^&#^&hole.
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:43 PM   #52
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I think we are actively orchestrating a scenario whereby Russia will move large numbers of troops into Syria (under the disguise of chem weapons police) and look like heroes for doing it. this will cement Assad's hold on the country , allow Russia to gain huge influence in the Arab world , prevent us from ever making a strike on Syria because we can't risk any possible casualties on Russian "observers". Good old B. Hussein Obama is giving away the whole show to save face.
There already are a lot of Russians in Syria, they have a big navy base there.

Putting Russian boots on the ground throughout the country is highly unlikely. First off any UN action won't be led by an individual country and perhaps more importantly they would be a magnet for radicals...think Russia wants to create another Afghanistan?
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:32 PM   #53
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Russia wants to keep what they have which means they want Assad to stay in power. Russia wants to expand what they have and that will mean they will send troops all over the country. Russia wants a steady and seemingly endless supply of radicals to organize , supply , train and aim at US interests. This is not an Afghanistan for Russia. This is a country who's government wants their support and presence and a government that will be far more stable with increased Russian presence. Russia , at the expense of zero lives is now consolidating their presence in Syria and neighboring Iran and will have far more influence there than we will after 15 years of war and trillions of dollars spent. This is a huge win for Russia , Syria and Iran. We now have the worst of the areas countries , backed by Russia with international approval. Its like we built a highway between Russia , Syria and Iran. Todays little poo poo blunder by Obama is now turning into the best case scenario for rogue Islamic Terrorists who will exploit this windfall far beyond any of our lifetimes. We have cemented a base of power for Russia in the area.

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Old 09-11-2013, 03:41 PM   #54
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Russia wants to keep what they have which means they want Assad to stay in power. Russia wants to expand what they have and that will mean they will send troops all over the country. Russia wants a steady and seemingly endless supply of radicals to organize , supply , train and aim at US interests. This is not an Afghanistan for Russia. This is a country who's government wants their support and presence and a government that will be far more stable with increased Russian presence. Russia , at the expense of zero lives is now consolidating their presence in Syria and neighboring Iran and will have far more influence there than we will after 15 years of war and trillions of dollars spent. This is a huge win for Russia , Syria and Iran. We now have the worst of the areas countries , backed by Russia with international approval. Its like we built a highway between Russia , Syria and Iran. Todays little poo poo blunder by Obama is now turning into the best case scenario for rogue Islamic Terrorists who will exploit this windfall far beyond any of our lifetimes. We have cemented a base of power for Russia in the area.
You forgot about the ferrets.

-spence
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:13 AM   #55
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the only thing that matters is dutifully and nervously polishing Obama statue ...bleep up after bleep up...no matter how absurd you appear...

note the quotes around ‘Brilliant Diplomatic Breakthrough’ in an obvious attempt to be misleading(sarcastic) Spence...

Andrew Stiles: The ‘Brilliant Diplomatic Breakthrough’ on Syria

"President Obama’s flailing incoherence regarding the Syrian conflict has, not surprisingly, been the subject of considerable spin."

In light of these developments, the Wall Street Journal’s Peggy Noonan advised readers to “get ready for the spin job of all spin jobs.” This diplomatic solution was made possible only by the credible threat of military action (something that Kerry had promised would be “unbelievably small,” and that Congress was poised to vote down). This was no gaffe, we were reassured — it was crafty statesmanship.

"Allies of the president don’t seem so sure, either. One Democratic strategist close to the White House told National Journal’s Ron Fournier, “This has been one of the most humiliating episodes in presidential history.” Julia Ioffe quoted an exasperated congressional staffer who complained about “an unmitigated cluster****.”

Still, many in the media embraced the diplomatic solution and credited Obama’s “threat of force” with bringing it about. “I really wonder if the folks on Capitol Hill can figure out that it is actually the threat of force which has brought the possibility of a diplomatic solution,” Christiane Spence Amanpour mused on CNN.

“[Obama’s] threat of war galvanized the world and America, raised the profile of the issue of chemical weapons more powerfully than ever before,” gushed Andrew Spence Sullivan.

Except the only thing the president’s “threat of war” actually galvanized in this country was public and congressional opposition. Few believe his address to the nation on Tuesday has changed many minds.

The administration’s “solution” to the Syrian conflict will almost certainly have to be revisited. But for now, the president has managed to secure a much-needed time-out. At least until the next gaffe."


http://www.nationalreview.com/node/358294/print
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:18 AM   #56
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Assad is probably watching the feed on Drudge and thinks Obama has lost it

-spence
not only lost it...... but is also well aware that Obama can't even get his dog to go along with his "threats" of military strikes.....


Putin appears to be thoroughly enjoying this...... "I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation."

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Old 11-09-2013, 08:24 AM   #57
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don't know who's been keeping up with the Syria escapade, so many examples of incompetence so little time...

cheers were heard when Syria provided it's disclosure ahead of schedule...glossing over of course that this was labeled by Syria as a "preliminary disclosure" and they were supposed to provide 'full disclosure"...close enough to declare victory though and avoid those pesky consequences.....

fast forward..

Search of Syria's "disclosed" chemical weapons sites nearly done

CNN)NOV 7th --
But while the inspection progresses, the United States is looking at new classified intelligence suggesting that Syria might not fully declare its chemical weapons stockpile, CNN has learned.

The intelligence is not definitive, but "there are various threads of information that would shake our confidence," one U.S. official said. "They have done things recently that suggest Syria is not ready to get rid of all their chemical weapons."

CNN has spoken to several U.S. officials with access to the latest intelligence on Syria, who confirmed the information.


NO KIDDING!!!!



this is so undictatorlike.......

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Old 11-09-2013, 11:15 AM   #58
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but..........
they're our friend's neighbors
and we Know we can trust Vladimir
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:10 PM   #59
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Wait, so you mean to tell me that we're actually checking to see if they really are in compliance? I would have assumed once Kerry left this was a done issue.

Can't get anything by these days.

-spence
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:10 AM   #60
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Wait, so you mean to tell me that we're actually checking to see if they really are in compliance? I would have assumed once Kerry left this was a done issue.

Can't get anything by these days.

-spence
quite the opposite

follow the bouncing ball


Speaking at an impromptu news conference at the White House, Obama noted that he has not authorized military operations against Syria. But he said that any effort by President Bashar al-Assad to use chemical weapons would have significant consequences.

“We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. That would change my calculus,” Obama said. “That would change my equation. . . . We’re monitoring that situation very carefully. We have put together a range of contingency plans.”

The president’s remarks represented his strongest language to date on how the United States might respond to contain Syria’s chemical weapons arsenal. In July, he warned that Assad would be “held accountable by the international community” if he made the “tragic mistake” of deploying chemical munitions.


WHITEHOUSE.gov(conference call)
We go on to reaffirm that the President has set a clear red line as it relates to the United States that the use of chemical weapons or the transfer of chemical weapons to terrorist groups is a red line that is not acceptable to us, nor should it be to the international community. It's precisely because we take this red line so seriously that we believe there is an obligation to fully investigate any and all evidence of chemical weapons use within Syria.

And the people in Syria and the Assad regime should know that the President means what he says when he set that red line. And keep in mind, he is the one who laid down that marker. He's the one who directed that we provide this information to the public. And he's the one who directed that we do everything we can to further investigate this information so that we can establish in credible, corroborated, factual basis what exactly took place.

OBAMA "First of all, I didn't set a red line," said Obama. "The world set a red line. The world set a red line when governments representing 98 percent of the world's population said the use of chemical weapons are [inaudble] and passed a treaty forbidding their use, even when countries are engaged in war. Congress set a red line when it ratified that treaty. Congress set a red line when it indicated that in a piece of legislation entitled the Syria Accountability Act that some of the horrendous things happening on the ground there need to be answered for. So, when I said in a press conference that my calculus about what's happening in Syria would be altered by the use of chemical weapons, which the overwhelming consensus of humanity says is wrong, that wasn't something I just kind of made up. I didn't pluck it out of thin air. There's a reason for it."
..............................
AUG 25th

The Obama administration hardened its stance against Syria and stepped up plans for possible military action, dismissing as too late the regime's offer to let United Nations officials inspect areas where the U.S. believes Damascus used chemical weapons last week.
...............................................
August 28th

Damascus, Syria (CNN) -- The United States has concluded Syria carried out chemical weapons attacks against its people, President Barack Obama said Wednesday


"We do not believe that, given the delivery systems, using rockets, that the opposition could have carried out these attacks. We have concluded that the Syrian government in fact carried these out," Obama told "NewsHour."

........................................

Sept 11th
Russian President Vladimir Putin could be about to offer missile systems and a second nuclear reactor to Iran by renewing an old deal.
The move will anger America and Israel who, in 2010, forced Russia's then-President Dimitry Medvedev to cancel the arms deal following heavy diplomatic pressure.
...................................
The U.S. stopped threatening military action in response to the attack after the UN Security Council approved on Sept. 27 that all of Syria’s chemical weapons be eliminated.

Under the deal, Syria must provide a full catalog of its chemical arsenal within a week and allow United Nations inspectors to start working no later than November. The plan envisions the elimination of Syrian chemical weapons by mid-2014.
The U.S. and Russia struck a deal which would eliminate Syria's chemical weapon cache by 2014. Yet, both sides admit this is just the beginning. NBC's Andrea Mitchell reports.

“There can be no games,” Kerry said. “No room for avoidance or anything less than full compliance.” or else!!
............................
September 20, 2013|By Shashank Bengali

WASHINGTON — The Syrian government submitted an "initial disclosure" of its chemical weapons to international inspectors, officials said Friday, the first step under an ambitious deal that aims to eliminate President Bashar Assad's illicit poison gas arsenal.

Experts at the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons in The Hague began translating the document from Arabic and reviewing its contents, but organization officials released few details.

It thus wasn't clear whether Syria's disclosure met the terms of last week's U.S.-Russian agreement, which called for Assad to submit by Saturday "a comprehensive listing, including names, types and quantities of its chemical weapons agents, types of munitions and location and form of storage, production and research and development facilities."

.........................................

Oct 11th

(CNN) -- The Nobel Peace Prize has turned the global spotlight back on the conflict in Syria.

The prize committee in Oslo, Norway, awarded it Friday to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, the international chemical weapons watchdog helping to eliminate the Syrian army's stockpiles of poison gas.

..................................

CNN)NOV 7th --
But while the inspection progresses, the United States is looking at new classified intelligence suggesting that Syria might not fully declare its chemical weapons stockpile, CNN has learned.

The intelligence is not definitive, but "there are various threads of information that would shake our confidence," one U.S. official said. "They have done things recently that suggest Syria is not ready to get rid of all their chemical weapons."

CNN has spoken to several U.S. officials with access to the latest intelligence on Syria, who confirmed the information.
...................................
NOV 8th

Mr. Cairns now believes he witnessed – from a distance – the world’s worst chemical-weapons attack in a quarter-century.

While he qualifies every statement about Syria’s chemical weapons program with words like “declared” or “that were disclosed,” Mr. Cairns also says much of the credit for what had been achieved so far must go to the Syrian government. “We had very good relations with them. I think, the willingness to co-operate, the willingness to facilitate our activities, has to be recognized.”

...............................................

NOV 9th
Iran has launched the production line of high-precision surface-to-air (SAM) missiles which would be able to destroy cruise missiles, bombers, drones and helicopters at medium range.

Saturday’s announcement comes as Tehran and five world powers, including the US, Russia, Britain, France and Germany, are holding talks in Geneva on Iran’s nuclear program. The international community claims Iran is enriching uranium to create atomic weapons. However Tehran denies the claims stating that its nuclear program is being developed for civil purposes.

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NOV 11th

US Secretary of State John Kerry has said Iran backed out of a deal on its nuclear programme during talks with world powers in Geneva on Saturday.

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NOV 12
Exclusive: West scorns Assad 'shopping list' for chemical convoys


(Reuters) - Western powers will turn down a Syrian request for military transport equipment to ship out chemical weapons material, saying the armored trucks and other gear could be used to fight the revolt, diplomats told Reuters.

President Bashar al-Assad's administration presented what envoys from two Western governments called a "long shopping list" to fit out and protect road convoys from Damascus to the coast through the conflict zone. But, they said, the agency overseeing Syria's chemical disarmament would reject this on the grounds most items could aid Assad's army in the civil war.

Last edited by scottw; 11-12-2013 at 07:17 AM..
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