RI Governor Supporting 2 Fish Options: Email Campaign NOW

[iamskippy]

Originally Posted by scottw

you are pretty smart Buck, this is a great way of looking at it, our effect as individuals, personal responsibility....

the number used is actually 9% for mortality,

I'm sure that you'll agree that both private rec and for hires experience mortality and I'd argue it's much more difficult to effectively release fish from a boat than from shore....gaffs, live lining pogies, dropping eels, trolling umbrella rigs(multiple fish) all more popular with the boat crowd(they aren't throwing plugs or bucktails from a party boat and they don't gaff every fish from shore)

here's the part regarding the charter that you may or may not like or accept but the guy driving the boat is responsible for every fish caught or killed from his boat....the fact is that if he was not driving the boat none of those fish would be killed or caught, none of his clients would take a fish if he didn't drive them there and bait their hook on that trip and thus impact the population ....

I don't know what you think the average charter boat takes per year in terms of bass but can was use low numbers and say 4 of the maximum 6 clients get two fish, discount the mate and captain fish for now...that's 8 fish per trip, can we use 100 trips, had a "full time" captain say he did 100 last year and he said that was low due to weather. That's 800 fish (conservatively). If any of these numbers seem out of line I understand...I'm not an "expert"...just like to ask obvious questions. Can we also assume a mortality for released under size and over limit fish? Can we assume that they catch don't keep at least as many as they keep? Call the mortality 10% to keep the numbers easy...80 fish mortality...that's 880 fish very conservatively over the season that this one captain has overseen the taking of, or in my opinion"is responsible for" as I pointed out, they never would have been caught by those individuals without him driving the boat.

I'm going to use myself just to be as accurate as possible it obviously varies from one angler to another, I fish more than most average private/shore recs...(I love catching, filleting and grilling fish by the way), I'll include the bass that I kept last year as well as all of the bass that the people that I fished with last year in the totals and I'll overestimate regarding catch(that''s what fishermen do) and mortality...... although I do place more emphasis each year learning and improving catch techniques and release methods to improve this and many folks that I fish with do also.

So, I don't know exactly how many trips last year but if I use 100 bass landed that would be high. I didn't keep any bass but three friends that I fish with did. One was big and the other two were 28-30 inches, I can't remember the last time I fished with someone who took 2 bass. so that's 3 bass...plus mortality 10% that 10 fish...13 bass

so it would take me
and the folks that I fished with last year... approx. 68 years to remove the number of fish that the guy above did with his boat...

and here's the thing, those guys probably won't keep any next year...many private and shore recs ARE moving to other species (scup) and methods including freshwater, other sports even, I talk to them every day, many private/shore recs move in and out of the sport and are anything but consistent in their impact

if you want to compare on an individual basis, sure, there are more private and shore recs but the impact on an "individual" basis is not even close and I think most look it or compare on an individual basis

additionally, your average shore, private rec is far less likely to be locating and taking the large breeders with a few exceptions whereas they are targeted by the experienced and more accessible to boats in general....the impact mushrooms when you include experience, electronics, actual time on the water...a guided charter allows someone who would likely never impact the fishery on their own, to do it in ways that most other anglers either can't or won't...that to me is a special responsibility that the captain bears many times a season...

Interesting spin Scott thanks for sharing.
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by iamskippy

Interesting spin Scott thanks for sharing.
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I agree
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

I agree
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happy to work with your numbers if you have any, it's a perspective, we all look at the fishery differently, that is obvious, you are quick to discount any perspective that disagrees with your's without providing much evidence...are you incapable of understanding how an average rec might look at or see this? I was told by a captain that if you aren't one, you don't know sh$#....is that how it works? can't figure out if I'm an "expert" or I "don't know sh%$"

[buckman]

Originally Posted by scottw

happy to work with your numbers if you have any, it's a perspective, we all look at the fishery differently, that is obvious, you are quick to discount any perspective that disagrees with your's without providing much evidence...are you incapable of understanding how an average rec might look at or see this? I was told by a captain that if you aren't one, you don't know sh$#....is that how it works? can't figure out if I'm an "expert" or I "don't know sh%$"

I understand how an average rec looks at this Scott . You either believe that allowing charterboats to keep 2 fish at 33 inches is not the equivalent of one at 28,and we can agree there will be more discarded fish from charterboats if it is one at 28, ( that one fish now becomes a trophy fish) .
Or you're just angry that somebody might get more fish than you.
Or you really believe that solving the perceived crisis for striped bass will come from limiting charterboats to one fish per angler .
And you either believe that one at 28 inches will not hurt charterboats or you simply don't give a #^&#^&#^&#^&
BTW I saw mortality rates between 9% and 30% I picked low middle for my argument you chose as low as you could get
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

I understand how an average rec looks at this Scott . is what follows your "understanding"?

You either believe that allowing charterboats to keep 2 fish at 33 inches is not the equivalent of one at 28, it's not, you should reread what you just wroteand we can agree there will be more discarded fish from charterboats if it is one at 28, ( that one fish now becomes a trophy fish) . shame on them

Or you're just angry that somebody might get more fish than you. not angry, just concerned about the fish, not who gets what


Or you really believe that solving the perceived crisis for striped bass will come from limiting charterboats to one fish per angler . I believe that limiting all rec anglers to 1 bass now and into the future will help ensure and maintain a healthy population


And you either believe that one at 28 inches will not hurt charter boats or you simply don't give a #^&#^&#^&#^& I just have not seen any actual evidence that this is the case(the first part, if I didn't give a bleep I wouldn't bother)


BTW I saw mortality rates between 9% and 30% I picked low middle for my argument you chose as low as you could get I used the exact number the was used for the meeting the other night by the Fisheries Council ...9%
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you can divide my numbers in half for the charter and double the others if it makes you feel better what's that, approx 30 years?...

all this keeping in mind that plenty of charters up and down the coast are doing fine and believe they will continue to do fine at 1 bass per client




you know I love you....right?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by scottw

you can divide my numbers in half for the charter and double the others if it makes you feel better what's that, approx 30 years?...

all this keeping in mind that plenty of charters up and down the coast are doing fine and believe they will continue to do fine at 1 bass per client

There are different types of charters that fish different waters with different techniques with different clientele and with different size boats. One of my hunting partners is a flyfishing guide. Believe me we don't think the same on this issue.
He only fishes on bluebird days , In shallow water and trailers his boat to the fish. Apples to oranges.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

There are different types of charters that fish different waters with different techniques with different clientele and with different size boats. One of my hunting partners is a flyfishing guide. Believe me we don't think the same on this issue.
He only fishes on bluebird days , In shallow water and trailers his boat to the fish. Apples to oranges.
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so different "clientele" should get different bag limits depending on what they "want" ? ohhh...that's right...immigration.... that is the gist of the argument that you've finally arrived at....there are some clients(if it's really them)...read the letters, who claim they will lose interest in the fishery during their occasional trips to the state if they can't kill two bass(or have the perception of the ability to do so I guess) and for that reason we should create an exception for the entire sector creating all sorts of havoc ....good thing we all don't think that way.....you are right...I don't give a #^&#^&#^&#^& about them....

[striperswiper75]

I emailed the Governor yesterday about this topic. I got the form letter reply from Brad Inman. I mentioned to the Governor that should RI adopt the 2 fish exemption for the for hire community; I would no longer be fishing in RI, I am a CT resident. I may only be one angler but for 4 of the past 5 years I have let a week long trip to Block Island with anywhere from 4-14 anglers staying at different house rentals on the island. Between the rental, the ferry cost, car ferry, gas, food and on island spending; that is a fairly decent loss for the State. RI will also lose my money from summer camping trips to Burlingame. Again not a huge impact, but I guess I will either keep that money local or divert it to MA instead.
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[puppet]

Thanks ScottW for your perseverance in these threads.

I can only speak for myself. I do care about the striped bass and
really the whole fishery. My fish counts were wildly low this past
year. Not just striped bass but bycatch like bluefish and fluke.

I am a fisherman and without the fish, I feel like a lost child. I fish
mostly from the surf. Last year many of my outings were just
casting practice.

I live in western CT and often travel to fish. I fish in RI, CT, MA, and NY.
My motivation to do these trips is shot. It also means I will not be
spending my money in any of those states.

Many many fisherman travel to fish.

I am not a political person. I don't spend any time or effort in
anything government related. I guess you could say that I don't
have the patience for it, but am really thankful for those who do.

Reading the outcome of the legislation is really upsetting to me.
Even the short sightedness of a 1 fish limit. Really it should be zero.

The government agencies that manage our environmental resources
have failed us all. The fact that their opinion can be swayed by
commercial beings just shows how corrupt and unqualified they really
are at managing natural resources. Shouldn't environmental
resource concerns be separated from the economy?

I am limiting my fishing this year. I might only fish a couple of weeks
in the surf. Really, I feel the couple trips I am planning are more out
of nostalgia than I expect or even care to catch fish. My local waters
in the western sound have been a ghostland, and I will not be fishing
them at all this year. I intend to not target the spring holdovers,
migration, or spawn. I am trying my best not to be a hypocrite, but
at the same time...I just want to fish.

Regarding the charter captains out there and your concern for
personal economics. Any sort of acceleration in the thinning of the
fishery stocks is bound to catch up with you.

You may have the attitude....who cares about the surfcaster. Well, I
tend to hire charters when I go on my outings. If there are no fish in
the surf, I am not making trips and I am not hiring you. I am not
spending money in your hotels and restaurants. I am not upgrading
or buying any more tackle and supporting your local business.

I fished the week during the MV derby and also fished Block Island
and Montauk during the fall run. These places were ghost towns.
Void of fish, void of surfcasters. Just two years ago, montauk was
crawling with thousands of surfcasters. I love fishing Newport, but
didn't bother last year because reports were so bad.

The economic impact related to the slow of the fishery is so much
larger than some stupid argument between whether a boat can keep
one or two fish. Really, we should be in moratorium for the sake of
the fish, the sport, and the local business.

We should be fighting together for this fishery not against eachother.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by scottw

so different "clientele" should get different bag limits depending on what they "want" ? ohhh...that's right...immigration.... that is the gist of the argument that you've finally arrived at....there are some clients(if it's really them)...read the letters, who claim they will lose interest in the fishery during their occasional trips to the state if they can't kill two bass(or have the perception of the ability to do so I guess) and for that reason we should create an exception for the entire sector creating all sorts of havoc ....good thing we all don't think that way.....you are right...I don't give a #^&#^&#^&#^& about them....

You have no way of telling if the options that are on the table are going to create any havoc except for maybe here. ! Your emotions are getting the best of you😊
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[MAKAI]

Question for you Buck ?
We're you fishing for bass in the early to mid 80's ?
Just curious.
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[piemma]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

Question for you Buck ?
We're you fishing for bass in the early to mid 80's ?
Just curious.
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I am betting not. If he were he would have a different take on the situation. While not as bad as then, we are surely headed in the direction of a moratorium. My money is on 2017.

[MAKAI]

Eerily familiar isn't it Paul ?
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

Question for you Buck ?
We're you fishing for bass in the early to mid 80's ?
Just curious.
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Yes I had a boat in Sesuit .
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[piemma]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

Eerily familiar isn't it Paul ?
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I can hear the footsteps.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

You have no way of telling if the options that are on the table are going to create any havoc except for maybe here. ! Your emotions are getting the best of you��
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it's got nothing to do with emotion Buck, you can dismiss it that way but the...

Chairman of the ASMFC pleaded with the participants and the end of the meeting in Alexandria for simple and consistent measures and further urged neighboring states to work together toward that end, this after...

The Law Enforcement folks urged and recommended simple and consistent regulations as the most effective measures regarding enforcement and angler compliance, this after....

the Science community urged simple and consistent regulations which would result in better data collection and further stated that mode splits and slot limits negatively affect the data and result in less reliable numbers, this after,,,

RI announced at their meeting prior to the ASMFC meeting that the reason option#2 was necessary was eliminate the possibility of "havoc" on the water..."we can't have boats fishing next to other boats under different regulations" that was out of the mouth of the Charter Rep Bellevance....I asked....."you will have boats fishing next to boats under different regulations..lots of them"....his response after much consternation was "I should have said, within the mode".....he meant..within the mode(for hire) and between states, ignoring that "within the state between modes" he was creating an even bigger problem numbers wise ....."havoc" to accommodate the above mentioned "who claim they will lose interest in the fishery during their occasional trips to the state if they can't kill two bass(or have the perception of the ability to do so I guess) and for that reason we should create an exception for the entire sector creating all sorts of havoc"

of course now...ironically...we have RI heading for a mode split...Mass leaning heavily 1@ all modes as well as CT and am I hearing NY?

talk about looking like fools....


what exactly is your evidence that it won't cause problems?


btw...an addition to the option#2 language for RI was mandatory reporting

check out this article regarding reporting by NY and others

"NMFS estimates that anglers fishing from for-hire boats in the State of New York landed 234,650 striped bass in 2014. At the same time, the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation reports that Vessel Trip Reports filled out by the state’s party and charter boats say that just 12,309 striped bass—a mere five percent of the landings estimated by NMFS—were landed by their customers in that year.

http://oneanglersvoyage.blogspot.com/

[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

there will be more discarded fish from charterboats if it is one at 28, ( that one fish now becomes a trophy fish) .
there will be more discarded fish from shore/private boats now that it is one at 28, ( that one fish now becomes a trophy fish) .
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can we believe that this occurs among the same people with 2@ currently? maybe not as frequently as it would at 1@ but with 4-6 people on a boat you've got a good number of fish to go through at 1@ before you start "high grading".... is that what they call it? if you start "high grading" after 4-6 bass on the boat(plus the captain and mate(s) fish) so that's what? 6-8 bass....you're kind of a &^%$

had a someone tell me recently that on a tog trip last fall they had 36 tog on the boat and a guy caught a 37th which was very big...an argument ensued over whether he should or could keep the 37th...regulations will never fix stupid or greedy...............the mouthpiece for the RI charters is arguing that most of our stocks are "rebuilt" and they are looking for higher limits and fighting 1@ for bass and I'd heard desiring mode splits on other species as well, I'm convinced that if there were no bag limits they would fish till the boat was full or the fish stopped biting in many cases....you'd think that they would be happy that they can put their clients on fish and keep their rods bent with relative ease...but nope...it's all about how many they can kill...maybe if we eliminate bag limits all together we can discourage "high grading"

[buckman]

You win Scott. Your right . If charter boats get 2@33 the fisherie will cease to exist and all hell will break loose on the waters 😊 . It will be too confusing to the ever vigilant EPO's . Lmao
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[ivanputski]

This could all have been avoided if the asmfc had some balls, did their job, and said: 1@ 28" for everyone. No eceptions. " instead they sent the states home with a menu of voodoo math options to fight it out.
Thanks asmfc... You really did a great job!
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

You win Scott. Your right . If charter boats get 2@33 the fisherie will cease to exist and all hell will break loose on the waters 😊 . It will be too confusing to the ever vigilant EPO's . Lmao
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didn't say that...you are letting your emotions get the best of you

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by scottw

didn't say that...you are letting your emotions get the best of you

Definitely the emotions because there's no logic to be seen.
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[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by ivanputski

This could all have been avoided if the asmfc had some balls, did their job, and said: 1@ 28" for everyone. No eceptions. " instead they sent the states home with a menu of voodoo math options to fight it out.
Thanks asmfc... You really did a great job!
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Its not ASMFC's "job" to dictate to the states what they must or cannot do.

[Linesider82]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Its not ASMFC's "job" to dictate to the states what they must or cannot do.

I couldn't tell... Seemed like they prescribe what they are supposed to do

Except with zero accountability
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[DZ]

Important meeting going on right now in Mass where they are making a decision to recommend 1 or 2 fish bag. If Mass go's 1 RI will be the only NE state to recommend 2 fish. It will be our last chance to convince Janet Coit to not take the RIMFC recommendation because there would be no perceived advantage in other NE states over RI. Stay tuned.

[buckman]

Just for the record if Ma goes 1 then I agree RI has to go 1 too . The charter industry in my area will be toast anyways . Guess we can all put our permits in use and fish commercial to make up for lost revenue .
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[thefishingfreak]

From MSBA's Facebook page


Patrick Paquette

14 mins
.
MSBA Govt Affairs Update: The MA Marine Fisheries Commission just voted UNANIMOUSLY to accept the Directors recommendation to set 2015 striped bass regulations: ONE FISH @ 28 inch minimum size FOR ALL RECREATIONAL ANGLERS. This includes passengers on a for hire vessel. Thank You to all who supported the effort to bring reasonable regulations to striped bass fishing in MA.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by buckman

Just for the record if Ma goes 1 then I agree RI has to go 1 too . The charter industry in my area will be toast anyways . Guess we can all put our permits in use and fish commercial to make up for lost revenue .
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What makes you so certain you are going to loose business ? What's the difference between 1 or 2 fish per person??? People pay for the sizzle not the steak
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

What makes you so certain you are going to loose business ? What's the difference between 1 or 2 fish per person??? People pay for the sizzle not the steak
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We do a great job with the sizzle . Even have a grill on board and cook an amazing lunch. Let's hope we can do it the same with out the steak . Believe me I hope you guys are right .
I won't let the clients who told us they were going to wait to see on the decision before they booked a trip get me down
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[thefishingfreak]

Could always move ops to RI I hear the block is off the hook
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[Nebe]

When you do a charter , do you do target multi species ? That's the sizzle IMHO. A little of everything. Ok, so a person can't take 4 bass filets home, but he can take 2 bass filets , some fluke filets a few whole sea bass and a couple blackfish. That's an experience!
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