Planned Parenthood

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I know Wayne from a past life (although not good) also. prior to the Humane Society.

Small world, sorry your experience wasn't positive. Was he a lawyer before joining HSUS? I think he went to Yale Law School, could be wrong.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Small world, sorry your experience wasn't positive. Was he a lawyer before joining HSUS? I think he went to Yale Law School, could be wrong.

I should have said that I didn't know him well. I knew the family more than Wayne. Nice folks. Yes, Yale law school.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Elizabeth warren had quite the speech yesterday for republicans on this. Ouch!
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sounds like she's on the Warpath again

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

sounds like she's on the Warpath again

She no like-um conservative pale face no want-um pay for baby part
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[Fishpart]

Saw this today:

If you challenge a liberal who relies on the “heavily edited” defense to tell you what, specifically, the full video shows that reveals that the edited version is unfair in some way, you will get a blank stare in response. I promise – try it for yourself.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Fishpart

Saw this today:

If you challenge a liberal who relies on the “heavily edited” defense to tell you what, specifically, the full video shows that reveals that the edited version is unfair in some way, you will get a blank stare in response. I promise – try it for yourself.

Right. If they coiuld show that the PP folks never actually said these things, but the words about baby harvesting were dubbed in later, that might matter.

It if goes against The Narrative, it can't be legitimate.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Fishpart

Saw this today:

If you challenge a liberal who relies on the “heavily edited” defense to tell you what, specifically, the full video shows that reveals that the edited version is unfair in some way, you will get a blank stare in response. I promise – try it for yourself.

I think it would be more interesting to challenge a conservative as to what specifically the edited video shows that reveals Planned Parenthood is violating the law in some way.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I think it would be more interesting to challenge a conservative as to what specifically the edited video shows that reveals Planned Parenthood is violating the law in some way.

You asked that before, I answered it spot-on, here it is again.

It is a violation of federal law to alter an abortion procedure in any way (tinming, method, positioning, etc), for the purposes of influencing the available tissue to harvest afterwards.

Now, in the videos, there are Planned Parenthood staff making very specific references to their ability to manipulate the procedure to get maximum available baby parts in the end.

So how can anyone possibly fail to conclude, that there is evidence that the law is being broken?

Have fun answering that.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

But in the videos the PP folks are explicitly saying that the procedures were altered, and they said it was done to influence the useful tissue for later use. That's what was said, and it's a blatant violation of federal law, and whie that alone isn't enough to convict anyone (maybe) sure as hell it should launch an investigation. And at a bare minumum, I should not be required to fund this place. I don't want my $$ going to these heartless ghouls. .

The laws intent is that you wouldn't say choose one form of abortion over another, or suggest an abortion with the intent of collecting tissue. But once that's said and done it's going to be more expensive to preserve tissue than just dispose of it...it's a different procedure.

As for heartless ghouls, I can guarantee you that many people who work for non-profits do so precisely because they want to help others...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

The laws intent is that you wouldn't say choose one form of abortion over another, or suggest an abortion with the intent of collecting tissue. But once that's said and done it's going to be more expensive to preserve tissue than just dispose of it...it's a different procedure.

As for heartless ghouls, I can guarantee you that many people who work for non-profits do so precisely because they want to help others...

I'm not all that interested in your slant on the intent of the law. What the law says, is that you cannot let your concern over harvestable tissue, have any influence in the way abortions are done. The tapes suggest to any person not blinded by ideology, that laws may well have been broken. The women claimed to be manipulating living babies, in such a way as to maximize harvestable tissue. It's a cause for an investigation and for using taxpayer dollars elsewhere.

"I can guarantee you that many people who work for non-profits do so precisely because they want to help others"

The mere fact that an organization does not generate profits, does not make it noble. Did the Klan turn a profit? The Nazis similarly could claim that what they were doing, was for the benefit of others, as some did indeed benefit. A benign charity helps one group without butchering another group, and then bragging about it over salad and red wine.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I'm not all that interested in your slant on the intent of the law. What the law says, is that you cannot let your concern over harvestable tissue, have any influence in the way abortions are done. The tapes suggest to any person not blinded by ideology, that laws may well have been broken. The women claimed to be manipulating living babies, in such a way as to maximize harvestable tissue. It's a cause for an investigation and for using taxpayer dollars elsewhere.

Jim, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the law. There is a period where the pregnancy is technically terminated but the procedure is not complete. If an agency was to alter the procedure post termination to best preserve the tissue that wouldn't be illegal.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

A benign charity helps one group without butchering another group, and then bragging about it over salad and red wine.

You make it sound like dinner at the Vatican.
Food for thought,no pun intended but history proves my point.
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[Jackbass]

Regardless of what side you are on the argument between you two sounds fairly Ghoulish to me. To be honest it is kind of disgusting. Harvesting Organs from terminated pregnancies. WTF
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Jim, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the law. There is a period where the pregnancy is technically terminated but the procedure is not complete. If an agency was to alter the procedure post termination to best preserve the tissue that wouldn't be illegal.

I see. So according to you, it's legal to turn the baby upside down while it's still alive, but illegal to do it after it has been killed. Can you please cite the portion of the law which states that? I would be more than shocked if that were the case, but I am persuadable. Please post that portion of the text.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I see. So according to you, it's legal to turn the baby upside down while it's still alive, but illegal to do it after it has been killed. Can you please cite the portion of the law which states that? I would be more than shocked if that were the case, but I am persuadable. Please post that portion of the text.
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No, I didn't say anything like that.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

No, I didn't say anything like that.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/04...ice-structure/

Spence, there is no smoking gun here, but it's enough to look into it, it's enough for me to say I don't want my tax dollars going there, and it's enough (thank God) that many on your side of the abortion issue, are disturbed by this.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/04...ice-structure/

Spence, there is no smoking gun here, but it's enough to look into it, it's enough for me to say I don't want my tax dollars going there, and it's enough (thank God) that many on your side of the abortion issue, are disturbed by this.

There isn't any tax money funding abortions, that's Federal law.

What that FOX article misses though is that it's not black or white if processes are changed in regards to fetal tissue. The intent of the law is to ensure the well being of the patient is placed first. If there are multiple methods to perform the abortion and one may be better than the other to collect viable tissue this likely wouldn't be considered a process change under the law unless it created additional pain or stress for the patient.

What the unedited tape also shows is that the PP rep making the statement says that she can't even approve a process change like that and would have to speak with the surgeon to see if it was allowed.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

There isn't any tax money funding abortions, that's Federal law.

What that FOX article misses though is that it's not black or white if processes are changed in regards to fetal tissue. The intent of the law is to ensure the well being of the patient is placed first. If there are multiple methods to perform the abortion and one may be better than the other to collect viable tissue this likely wouldn't be considered a process change under the law unless it created additional pain or stress for the patient.

What the unedited tape also shows is that the PP rep making the statement says that she can't even approve a process change like that and would have to speak with the surgeon to see if it was allowed.

"it's not black or white if processes are changed in regards to fetal tissue"

So let's investigate, and find out if laws were broken. In the meantime, if you want to donate your money to pay for an organization that kills babies for money, that's your right, but I'd prefer to be left out of that scenario.

The other thing that both the edited and unedited tape show, are folks discussing these things with a callousness that would be shocking, except it's obviously a pre-requisite to work at such a place. That callousness is making a lot of people take notice, and Hilary's support may not play well in the general.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

So let's investigate, and find out if laws were broken. In the meantime, if you want to donate your money to pay for an organization that kills babies for money, that's your right, but I'd prefer to be left out of that scenario.

It's a non-profit organization Jim. They don't kill babies for money.

The other thing that both the edited and unedited tape show, are folks discussing these things with a callousness that would be shocking, except it's obviously a pre-requisite to work at such a place. That callousness is making a lot of people take notice, and Hilary's support may not play well in the general.

The reality is you'll see a similar attitude with most fields that deal in gruesome subjects. I doubt it's really any different than hacking cadavers up for medical purposes...and yes that would include implanting a dead person's body parts into another for medical treatments...I'd wager you'd have a pretty cold perspective as well.

Sure, it's hard to listen to but that doesn't mean it's illegal. Remember, this entire discussion was spawned by a anti-abortion group.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

It's a non-profit organization Jim. They don't kill babies for money.


The reality is you'll see a similar attitude with most fields that deal in gruesome subjects. I doubt it's really any different than hacking cadavers up for medical purposes...and yes that would include implanting a dead person's body parts into another for medical treatments...I'd wager you'd have a pretty cold perspective as well.

Sure, it's hard to listen to but that doesn't mean it's illegal. Remember, this entire discussion was spawned by a anti-abortion group.

how low can U go......

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

how low can U go......

MC'ing a limbo contest?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

It's a non-profit organization Jim. They don't kill babies for money.


The reality is you'll see a similar attitude with most fields that deal in gruesome subjects. I doubt it's really any different than hacking cadavers up for medical purposes...and yes that would include implanting a dead person's body parts into another for medical treatments...I'd wager you'd have a pretty cold perspective as well.

Sure, it's hard to listen to but that doesn't mean it's illegal. Remember, this entire discussion was spawned by a anti-abortion group.

This may be news to you Spence, but even non-profits can occasionally be involved in wrongdoing.

"Sure, it's hard to listen to but that doesn't mean it's illegal"

Let's find out if it was illegal. And just because it's legal, doesn't mean taxpayers need to fund it.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

. Remember, this entire discussion was spawned by a anti-abortion group.

Meaning what, exactly? I sit inconceivablke that an anti-abortion group could uncover wrong-doing? It's not possible?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

It's a non-profit organization Jim. They don't kill babies for money.
.

Let's examine that, shall we?

Dr. Mary Gatter, Council President of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America’s Medical Directors, in Video #2, she says
“Let me just figure out what others are getting, and if this is in the ballpark, then it’s fine,” Gatter said. “If it’s still low, then we can bump it up....I want a Lamborghini.”

Now, if all PP wants to do is cover expenses, then why is any deal contingent on making sure that the rate is competitive to what others are getting? If all PP cares about is covering their own expenses, then it shouldn't give a rat's azz about making sure no one else has a better deal.

As to her statement about the car, who knows what she meant. But if her goal is indeed to kill enough babies to get a lamborghini, then this c*nt can do it without reaching into my wallet, OK?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-anymore.html#

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

MC'ing a limbo contest?

seems like it reading you constant bending over backwards to defend evil and wrongdoing...

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

It's a non-profit organization Jim. They don't kill babies for money.

that's right...kill the babies out of compassion and sell the parts for money....


The reality is you'll see a similar attitude with most fields that deal in gruesome subjects. I know right, like those videos of the things that happen on farms with livestock that ....wait....that horrifies pretty much everyone and has cause changes in the attitudes of society, even laws, after seeing the undercover films...

I doubt it's really any different than hacking cadavers up for medical purposes......don't you need one's permission? and yes that would include implanting a dead person's body parts into another for medical treatments...again permission...I'd wager you'd have a pretty cold perspective as well. I'm pretty sure that if a hospital or morgue was running an operation selling body parts and if that hospital's hierarchy was exposed in similar fashion with the sentiments expressed by these creeps....there would be a massive uproar...look at the morgues that have been exposed for not properly handling customers


Sure, it's hard to listen to but that doesn't mean it's illegal. I suspect most normal people never dreamed that this was going on and being directed by these sickos....might be illegal pretty soonRemember, this entire discussion was spawned by a anti-abortion group.

pretty solid job of reporting...and courageous

great article http://www.nationalreview.com/node/422305/print

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Let's examine that, shall we?

Dr. Mary Gatter, Council President of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America’s Medical Directors, in Video #2, she says
“Let me just figure out what others are getting, and if this is in the ballpark, then it’s fine,” Gatter said. “If it’s still low, then we can bump it up....I want a Lamborghini.”

Now, if all PP wants to do is cover expenses, then why is any deal contingent on making sure that the rate is competitive to what others are getting? If all PP cares about is covering their own expenses, then it shouldn't give a rat's azz about making sure no one else has a better deal.

As to her statement about the car, who knows what she meant. But if her goal is indeed to kill enough babies to get a lamborghini, then this c*nt can do it without reaching into my wallet, OK?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-anymore.html#

Selective editing.

In the full video she says multiple times they don't look to make a profit, she laughs off the Lamborghini remark as mocking the idea they're out for profit...and the best is the "undercover" actors were pushing her to accept more money which she was resisting.

In other words, it's nearly 180 degrees from your perception.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

It's a non-profit organization Jim.

So is the NFL.......squeaky clean there.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

So is the NFL.......squeaky clean there.
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Actually I thought they dropped their status this spring...mostly so they could hide Goodell's salary. Too bad he's going to be on unemployment soon.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

In other words, it's nearly 180 degrees from your perception.

it's OK Jim, always need to remember that Spence's perception is 180 degrees from reality......funny how the left is vigilant about political correctness, unacceptable speech, compassion and appropriate tone and tenor regarding certain issues until the ghoulishness or bad behaviour of someone involved in one of their pet projects is exposed....rather than punish the ghoul or the criminal or the nare-do-well, they attack the appalled....which is 180 degrees from how they treat someone that they disagree with politically who commits a PC sin....we have many examples of this now....odd behaviour