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[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

To cherry pick one issue out the the many reasons that extremist find followers is a cop out for both sides..

who did that?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

who did that?

As I said Both sides

[scottw]

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post

To cherry pick one issue out the the many reasons that extremist find followers is a cop out for both sides.


Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
who did that?

Originally Posted by wdmso

As I said Both sides

can you give an example?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post

To cherry pick one issue out the the many reasons that extremist find followers is a cop out for both sides.


Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
who did that?




can you give an example?

Not sure Who are the who your referring to ?? to provide the example your looking for ... are you saying both sides of the argument what creates extremism and what makes a person a terrorist? dont cherry pick their position I see 3 camps

1st .. Just blame our own societies and socioeconomic conditions

2nd Just blame the religion and cultural concepts

3rd this one isn't talked about much but is closer to the reason we have terrorism

it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Not sure Who are the who your referring to ?? to provide the example your looking for ... are you saying both sides of the argument what creates extremism and what makes a person a terrorist? dont cherry pick their position I see 3 camps

1st .. Just blame our own societies and socioeconomic conditions

2nd Just blame the religion and cultural concepts

3rd this one isn't talked about much but is closer to the reason we have terrorism

it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other

Anyone who blames our society for terrorism, has been painting inside with the windows shut. Jihadists frequently attack other Muslims in their own countries, God forbid they believe in a slightly different branch of Islam. They hate everyone who isn't exactly like them.

"Just blame the religion and cultural concepts"

You're getting warmer.

"it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism "

The Fort Hood shooter was a doctor, correct? Some kind of pshrink? He was an Army Major, I believe, he did well here. And he was radicalized. Bin Laden was educated. The couple in California who shot up his office? His co-workers had just thrown them a baby shower. They were embraced by our culture.

There's only one thing that connects every single one of them of them, and it's not socioeconomics. It's Islam, a religion based on the life of a bloodthirsty conqueror who would have made Atilla The Hun proud. We don't have the ability to make them all middle class with the wave of our hand.

I agree with most of what you're saying (I think you are too quick to dismiss the fault that lies with Islam, that's just my $0.02). Tough problem. The solution is very, very ugly and brutal.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Not sure Who are the who your referring to ?? to provide the example your looking for ... are you saying both sides of the argument what creates extremism and what makes a person a terrorist? dont cherry pick their position I see 3 camps

no one "cherry picked" anything.....

I asked you to name someone who did "cherry pick" because you made the very broad statement "To cherry pick one issue out the the many reasons that extremist find followers is a cop out for both sides.."

some would call that a straw man argument.....

I think it's widely acknowledged that there are many reasons for radicalization...there are also specific components that are fueling the current problem particularly in Europe and as the author in Politico mentions, some seem to be unable to grasp the fact that radicalization occurs despite their every attempt to remove the "socioeconomic" causes and or improve them through their social welfare structure all of the necessities that ought largely thwart radicalization...I mean...if you provide someone with everything...why on earth would they want to blow you up? right?....many of the radicalized have been highly educated and hardly from impoverished socioeconomic backgrounds....


"So, we blame ourselves in order to remain blameless. Safer to blame our own societies and socioeconomic conditions than to blame the religious and cultural concepts with which terrorists poison their own minds.

According to reports, the unemployment figure in Brussels’ infamous Molenbeek neighborhood — now referred to as the jihadi hothouse of Europe — is 30 percent. This is a relatively high figure in Western Europe, but not unusual in southern European countries or the Arab world. There is poverty in Molenbeek, but that poverty is relative. There is no starvation, no homelessness, no lack of medical infrastructure, no lack of schools.

Compared to average living standards in Morocco or Egypt, the average living standard in Molenbeek is comfortably middle-class. Like in any other Western European country, many Belgian institutions and organizations offer support when families need housing, food, education, and health care. Opportunities for success, and to study and become a respected member in society, are countless compared to those that exist in many immigrants’ countries of origin. Still, there is deep resentment among the younger generations of immigrant Moroccan families."


3rd this one isn't talked about much but is closer to the reason we have terrorism

it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other


I think it's been very well demonstrated that extremism will/can exist and stand as a result of religious and cultural concepts despite socioeconomic and societal conditions....we've seen countless examples...Europe is attempting to prove this right now

[wdmso]

"I asked you to name someone " so I take it you thoughtI was speaking about specific an SOL member. To repeat I said Both sides of the argument cherry pick the issue not sure how thats a straw man argument but ok

I think it's been very well demonstrated that extremism will/can exist and stand as a result of religious and cultural concepts despite socioeconomic and societal conditions....we've seen countless examples...Europe is attempting to prove this right now

^^^ Now your cherry picking the argument and assuming all socioeconomic and societal conditions. are equal and have no impact its just religious and cultural that are the cause of the problem

I clearly fall into camp #3

it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other

I cant say what % Religious VS societies and socioeconomic which causes what but the out come isn't debatable

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Now your cherry picking the argument and assuming all socioeconomic and societal conditions. are equal and have no impact its just religious and cultural that are the cause of the problem

that's not accurate

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

"I asked you to name someone " so I take it you thoughtI was speaking about specific an SOL member. To repeat I said Both sides of the argument cherry pick the issue not sure how thats a straw man argument but ok

I think it's been very well demonstrated that extremism will/can exist and stand as a result of religious and cultural concepts despite socioeconomic and societal conditions....we've seen countless examples...Europe is attempting to prove this right now

^^^ Now your cherry picking the argument and assuming all socioeconomic and societal conditions. are equal and have no impact its just religious and cultural that are the cause of the problem

I clearly fall into camp #3

it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other

I cant say what % Religious VS societies and socioeconomic which causes what but the out come isn't debatable

WDMSO, there are many drivers of radicalization, as you astutely said.

"it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other"

Then please explain the guy who shot up his office in California recently, or the Fort Hood shooter? These were not desperate, poor people who had any conceivable reason to hate the west. These were people who were doing well in the west.

There is one common thread that connects all of them, and it's not ignorance, poverty, hopelessness, desperation, or living in a third world craphole (while some terrorists share these things, certainly not all of them do). Furthermore, there are huge numbers of desperate, poor, hopeless Christians out there (Africa, central America). And they aren't slaughtering innocent human beings because they think Jesus wants them to.

The overwhelming majority of people killed by terrorists in the last 15 years, have been killed by Islamic terrorists. Not Christian terrorists, not Jewish terrorists, not Mormon terrorists, not Hindu terrorists, not Amish terrorists, not Buddhist terrorists Yet all these religions have poor followers, living in the most miserable places on Earth (maybe not the Amish, but you get my point). Why is that? When one religion, and only one, stands out as inspiring its faithful to act this way, there's got to be a connection.