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Old 01-09-2017, 07:55 PM   #1
detbuch
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enlightening perspective from an ex-Muslim

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Old 01-10-2017, 05:54 AM   #2
wdmso
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Many people lose faith and re find it somewhere else or in another religion or form of Christianity..

This is just another Anti islam video taken hook line and sinkers by the Anti islam crowd its only enlightening for 1 reason he is a convert.. However if he was a devout Muslim born in America no one would give him the time of day to hear why he loves islam ..

FYI
there were an estimated 50,000 Christians in the Palestinian territories, mostly in the West Bank, with about 3,000 in the Gaza Strip. Of the total Christian population of 154,000 in Israel, about 80% are designated as Arabs, many of whom self-identify as Palestinian. Seems you can be both
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:58 AM   #3
detbuch
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Many people lose faith and re find it somewhere else or in another religion or form of Christianity..

Really? Gee golly, whoda thunk? Quite an amazing and enlightening fact that very few people are aware of. Thanks for letting us be aware of this obscure fact.

This is just another Anti islam video taken hook line and sinkers by the Anti islam crowd

Right. The "crowd." You, of course, are not taken "hook line and sinkers" by the pro-Islam crowd.

its only enlightening for 1 reason he is a convert..

What's so enlightening about that? You've said in the first sentence of your post that many people convert.

However if he was a devout Muslim born in America no one would give him the time of day to hear why he loves islam ..

Actually, many people, a veritable "crowd," have given devout Muslims the time of day and accepted hook, line, and sinker what they have to say. And the convert in the video was born in America to a devout Muslim family. But, then, of course, the wrong "crowd" took him "hook line and sinkers."

FYI
there were an estimated 50,000 Christians in the Palestinian territories, mostly in the West Bank, with about 3,000 in the Gaza Strip. Of the total Christian population of 154,000 in Israel, about 80% are designated as Arabs, many of whom self-identify as Palestinian. Seems you can be both
FYI
the number of Christians in the Middle East is dwindling. At one time, Christians were the majority in the "Palestinian territories." Of course, that changed drastically because most "lost their faith and found it" in Islam--when Mohammad and his followers gave them a choice they couldn't refuse. You know, that little convert or die thingy (or become a third class cash cow for the Muslim State). Oh, and most of those early Christians were Arabs. Oh, that's right, the first Christians were Semites (Arabs or Jews), not Europeans or fundamentalist Americans. So, yeah, you're absolutely correct. They can be both Christian and Arab.

Wow. You keep coming up with these stunning, obscure facts. Thanks for the enlightenment.

For me, the video was enlightening not because he is a convert or an Arab, or a Palestinian, but because of what he, as an actual Muslim, who studied the actual Islamic sources, had to say about Islam. I apologize for putting you through an insignificant hour of a rather unenlightening "crowd" pleaser (if you actually watched the whole thing--it's mostly the last half that is "enlightening" as to Islam). You, obviously know more about Islam than Hazem Farraj.

Oh . . . would you care to actually discuss what he had to say about Islam?

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Old 01-10-2017, 04:37 PM   #4
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FYI
the number of Christians in the Middle East is dwindling. At one time, Christians were the majority in the "Palestinian territories." Of course, that changed drastically because most "lost their faith and found it" in Islam--when Mohammad and his followers gave them a choice they couldn't refuse. You know, that little convert or die thingy (or become a third class cash cow for the Muslim State). Oh, and most of those early Christians were Arabs. Oh, that's right, the first Christians were Semites (Arabs or Jews), not Europeans or fundamentalist Americans. So, yeah, you're absolutely correct. They can be both Christian and Arab.

Wow. You keep coming up with these stunning, obscure facts. Thanks for the enlightenment.

For me, the video was enlightening not because he is a convert or an Arab, or a Palestinian, but because of what he, as an actual Muslim, who studied the actual Islamic sources, had to say about Islam. I apologize for putting you through an insignificant hour of a rather unenlightening "crowd" pleaser (if you actually watched the whole thing--it's mostly the last half that is "enlightening" as to Islam). You, obviously know more about Islam than Hazem Farraj.

Oh . . . would you care to actually discuss what he had to say about Islam?

you post a Video with this commentary "enlightening perspective from an ex-Muslim" and ask if I want to Actually discuss what he had to say???

What he said is how he see's it.. no different then catholic renouncing their faith.. there is no hidden message or silver bullet in what he said

Is That your point ? what one man had to say about Islam?

Or Are you saying he is showing a rational, modern, and well-informed outlook. Or that he shares the Same outlook you and others Have about Islam?...

So lets make things simple you support his version


Former Muslim (Convert)says Islam is Bad = enlightening perspective from an ex-Muslim

Current Muslim says Islam is Good = not an enlightening perspective from a Muslim


it isn't that easy to define a religion by some of its followers actions ..here are some more obscure facts .but have fun making the association

1. Christianity 2.1 billion
2. Islam 1.3 billion
3. Hinduism 851 million
4. Buddhism 375 million
C&P
Even if all terrorist attacks were carried out by Muslims, you still could not associate terrorism with Islam: There have been 140,000 terror attacks committed worldwide since 1970. Even if Muslims carried out all of these attacks, those terrorists would represent less than 0.00009 percent of all Muslims. To put things into perspective, this means that you are more likely to be struck by lightening in your lifetime than a Muslim is likely to commit a terrorist attack during that same timespan.
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:55 PM   #5
detbuch
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you post a Video with this commentary "enlightening perspective from an ex-Muslim" and ask if I want to Actually discuss what he had to say???

In the first instance, I did not ask you to respond at all. I even considered including another little note of introduction saying that wdmso should probably not look at the video. But you did respond. And did so with the boilerplate response that I would have expected. But since you did bother to respond, I asked if you would discuss what he said. As expected, you did not.

What he said is how he see's it.. no different then catholic renouncing their faith.. there is no hidden message or silver bullet in what he said

As expected, you won't, or can't, discuss what he said.

He certainly didn't try to present a silver bullet. And he did say that his conversion was a personal journey which might not apply to anyone else.

And it is not his conversion that was informative, rather, he said some important things which apply specifically to Islam and not to any other major religion. Things which I thought would shed some light on the difficulty Islam would have in trying to reform. He agrees with most that Islam desperately needs to reform. And it is important to know fundamental things about Islam which those who claim that Islam is going under transformation or that it can be reformed fail, or prefer not to note. He said why he thinks that it can't. And he said that it is not Muslims, the people of the religion, that are the problem, but it is the foundation of the religion that is the problem. And that it is important to consider that when deciding to bring in tens or hundreds of thousands of Muslims. There is a persistent problem of assimilation due to the fundamental nature of the religion. And there is the pattern of non-assimilation accompanied by violence to the host culture that is happening now in Europe. And there is the problem of cognitive dissonance between warm friendly Muslims, and the fundamentalist teaching of Islam, which leads in non-Islamic countries to so-called radicalization of a significant minority and the inability of many or most to assimilate into a non-Islamic culture. He speaks of things which do not apply to other religions. It isn't like a Catholic renouncing his religion. It is about a religion which renounces and is incompatible with all other cultures.

The fundamental texts, the actual scriptures, of which the religion consists, and which prescribe its practice, are what drives it to create Islamic States, not secular democratic ones.


Is That your point ? what one man had to say about Islam?

Or Are you saying he is showing a rational, modern, and well-informed outlook. Or that he shares the Same outlook you and others Have about Islam?...

So lets make things simple you support his version

Farraj supported what he had to say. That's why I presented the video.

Former Muslim (Convert)says Islam is Bad = enlightening perspective from an ex-Muslim

Current Muslim says Islam is Good = not an enlightening perspective from a Muslim

Your version is not only simplistic, it is wrong. He did not say that Islam is either bad or good. He said that he could not find in actual Islam, as it was actually practiced in its heartland and holiest of temples, the peace he was seeking. He said it was a personal thing, not an attempt to proselytize or dissuade others.

Again, what I thought would be the enlightening perspective was not his conversion, but his pointing out the, probably unfixable, problem with reforming Islam and making it compatible with Western culture (and with our system of law).


it isn't that easy to define a religion by some of its followers actions ..here are some more obscure facts .but have fun making the association

1. Christianity 2.1 billion
2. Islam 1.3 billion
3. Hinduism 851 million
4. Buddhism 375 million
C&P
Even if all terrorist attacks were carried out by Muslims, you still could not associate terrorism with Islam: There have been 140,000 terror attacks committed worldwide since 1970. Even if Muslims carried out all of these attacks, those terrorists would represent less than 0.00009 percent of all Muslims. To put things into perspective, this means that you are more likely to be struck by lightening in your lifetime than a Muslim is likely to commit a terrorist attack during that same timespan.
He didn't define Islam by the actions of some of its current terrorist followers. He pointed out its definition in its own words, in its basic, foundational, texts. He pointed out that, just as Christianity, in its various forms, is ultimately defined by the textual teachings of its Founder, Jesus, Islam is defined by its Founder, Mohammad.

Christianity was reformed. When it strayed from its Founder's original teachings into secular authoritarianism and things like the Inquisition, it experienced various reformations which again made it more Christ-like.

Farraj points out that Islam IS actually undergoing reformation. Groups like Isis are trying to reform Islam from its present balkanized State limitations back into the borderless, boundless caliphate as created by its Founder. And by using the same brutal methods that Mohammad prescribed.

If you were to reform Christ out of Christianity, it would no longer be Christian. It would be something totally different. The same goes for Islam. If you remove Mohammad from Islam, it would be something totally different.

Farraj does provide the slimmest possibility to reform Islam so that it can be compatible with the modern world, especially with the West. For that to happen, Mohammad would have to be "interpreted" into something he wasn't. Or somehow interpreted as being insignificant in the greater definition of Islam. He doesn't see even a sliver of a chance of that happening.

It would be easier just to convert to another established religion. Like Christianity.

As far as the list of numbers you provided, it was too incoherent to elicit a response from me. And as for the being struck by lightening perspective goes, there are way, way, way more lightening strikes worldwide every year than the number of terrorist attacks since 1970--there's almost as many lightening strikes in the U.S. alone every year. It's just that lightening strikes are random, not calculated or aimed at humans. So the number of human casualties per lightening strikes pales in effectiveness compared with the lethal capabilities of planned and human targeted terrorist attacks. Most terrorist attacks actually inflict human casualties. The percentage of human casualties per terrorist attacks is much, much, higher than it is for random lightening strikes the vast majority of which don't even hit humans.

Some things can be done to reduce the chances of terrorist attacks. Not a whole lot can be done to prevent lightening. And one of the most important things that can be done to prevent Islamic terrorist attacks is to understand the true nature and cause of them--which can be found in an honest understanding of the true nature of Islam
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:24 AM   #6
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He didn't define Islam by the actions of some of its current terrorist followers. He pointed out its definition in its own words, in its basic, foundational, texts. He pointed out that, just as Christianity, in its various forms, is ultimately defined by the textual teachings of its Founder, Jesus, Islam is defined by its Founder, Mohammad.

Christianity was reformed. When it strayed from its Founder's original teachings into secular authoritarianism and things like the Inquisition, it experienced various reformations which again made it more Christ-like.

Farraj points out that Islam IS actually undergoing reformation. Groups like Isis are trying to reform Islam from its present balkanized State limitations back into the borderless, boundless caliphate as created by its Founder. And by using the same brutal methods that Mohammad prescribed.

If you were to reform Christ out of Christianity, it would no longer be Christian. It would be something totally different. The same goes for Islam. If you remove Mohammad from Islam, it would be something totally different.

Farraj does provide the slimmest possibility to reform Islam so that it can be compatible with the modern world, especially with the West. For that to happen, Mohammad would have to be "interpreted" into something he wasn't. Or somehow interpreted as being insignificant in the greater definition of Islam. He doesn't see even a sliver of a chance of that happening.

It would be easier just to convert to another established religion. Like Christianity.

As far as the list of numbers you provided, it was too incoherent to elicit a response from me. And as for the being struck by lightening perspective goes, there are way, way, way more lightening strikes worldwide every year than the number of terrorist attacks since 1970--there's almost as many lightening strikes in the U.S. alone every year. It's just that lightening strikes are random, not calculated or aimed at humans. So the number of human casualties per lightening strikes pales in effectiveness compared with the lethal capabilities of planned and human targeted terrorist attacks. Most terrorist attacks actually inflict human casualties. The percentage of human casualties per terrorist attacks is much, much, higher than it is for random lightening strikes the vast majority of which don't even hit humans.

Some things can be done to reduce the chances of terrorist attacks. Not a whole lot can be done to prevent lightening. And one of the most important things that can be done to prevent Islamic terrorist attacks is to understand the true nature and cause of them--which can be found in an honest understanding of the true nature of Islam
You seem to be missing my point my response is not to what he said. its a response to your use of what he said to forward your vision of islam and how its related to Terrorism and thats the only reason you posted the video... its your silver bullet not his .. As I have said he is 1 one man free to see things the way he see things ... and your free to use him to make your argument that Islam as a whole is Bad ...

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7...eform-movement not all reform is Bad
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:39 AM   #7
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More enlightening perspective from the saad truth no theme or Agenda with this youtube guy you posted

Chat with Bill Warner on Political Islam
My Chat with Anne Marie Waters, Director of Sharia Watch UK
My Chat with Robert Spencer key figure of the counter-jihad movement in the United States
there are a few more
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:35 PM   #8
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More enlightening perspective from the saad truth no theme or Agenda with this youtube guy you posted

Chat with Bill Warner on Political Islam
My Chat with Anne Marie Waters, Director of Sharia Watch UK
My Chat with Robert Spencer key figure of the counter-jihad movement in the United States
there are a few more
I had already watched the chat with Anne Marie Waters. That was after I had watched another video of her speaking on the problem of Muslim immigrant violence in England. It was a good and informative video. In it she mentioned the Jay Report, a documented investigation of 1400 British girls having been drugged, raped and prostituted by British Pakistani Muslim men in the town of Rotherham. You can google it.

Yes, Gad Saad has an agenda, and even a theme. Is your saying so supposed to make that illegitimate, or wrong, or bad, or what . . .?

Democrats and Republicans have agendas. University professors and "experts" have agendas. Priests, rabbis, imams, and atheists have agendas. Constitutionalists and Progressives and Socialists, and Communists, and anarchists have agendas. Relativists and absolutists have agendas. Those who have goals have agendas. Those who abide by principles have agendas. Those who believe everything is a matter of opinion have agendas. Those who have morals have agendas. Those who believe there is a right and a wrong, who believe there is good and evil, who believe in something, have agendas.

Those who have none of those kinds of qualities or characteristics probably don't have an agenda.

Do YOU have an agenda?
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:17 PM   #9
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You seem to be missing my point my response is not to what he said. its a response to your use of what he said to forward your vision of islam and how its related to Terrorism and thats the only reason you posted the video...

If you're going to respond to the notion that my use of what he said is a way to forward my vision of Islam and how it's related to Terrorism, then discuss your opinion on what you think my vision is rather than merely pointing out why you think I used the video. Is pointing out why I posted the video your silver bullet that makes the video unenlightening?

its your silver bullet not his .. As I have said he is 1 one man free to see things the way he see things ... and your free to use him to make your argument that Islam as a whole is Bad ...

I posted the video to help focus some definite opinion on our well-meaning but uninformed, or more accurately (in my opinion) misinformed, notions about Islam such as your relativistic morally equivalent view in your above statement.

It's not about a harmless equivalency between two personal views. There is a mirage of equivalency in this country, or the West in general, because we are all supposed to be free to see and say things the way we see and say them. Under Islam, however, we are not free to see and say things that run counter to it, especially so in Islamic States. But because we have faith in our mirage, we easily accept and believe it, without critical analysis, when Islamists say that, indeed, Islam allows such freedom. That it is a religion of peace. That it is completely compatible with Western democracy. That it represents no threat to the West.

So I posted a video which gives the view of someone that is not blinded by our mirage, but actually lived and studied and critiqued the actual sources of Islam, the Koran, the Hadith, and the Sunnah, and who read the Muslim apologists, and analyzed the scholarly works of the past and of current Islamic academic thought.

Farraj's early and formative years were spent in the U.S. So he understood and liked our way of life and law. When his family moved to Palestine, he experienced a different way, a different law, and he tried to reconcile it with his need for spiritual sustenance. He could not reconcile the way of the West, the laws of this country, the spiritual needs that were shaped by the freedom and love and equality that he experienced in the U.S with what he studied and experienced in the Islam of the Middle East. For him, there was no compatibility at all. Not because he had an agenda against Islam. Not that he wanted to make it "bad." Quite the contrary, he wanted the religion of his ancestry to be "good." To be spiritually fulfilling. But the truthful, honest study of it, and actual experience of it in the lands of its birth and current center of spiritual and ideological expertise, taught him that it was not what he wanted it to be. It was the opposite. It was antithetical to Western thought, to American law and culture.


https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7...eform-movement not all reform is Bad
The fact that the Muslim Reform Movement, which is the subject of the article you linked above, is calling for reform is the clue (or silver bullet as you put it) that tells us Islam has a worldwide and major problem. It tells us that the "anti-Islam crowd" you've referred to is on to something. In its preamble, the movement says:

"We seek to reclaim the progressive spirit with which Islam was born in the 7th century to fast forward it into the 21st century. But the so-called progressive spirit of Islam in the 7th century was not a progressivism which espoused the following ideals in this preamble. It was the opposite of them. It produced the progress of conquest and slaughter and enslavement and bigotry and opposed everything in the UN Declaration of Human Rights. Even the highly touted so-called tolerant, enlightened 700 years of Muslim rule in Spain was a myth--it imposed the same harsh methods as it did elsewhere as recounted by the highly credentialed scholar Dario Fernandez-Morera as he recounts in his book The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise. "We support the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which was adopted by United Nations member states in 1948.
"We reject interpretations of Islam that call for any violence, social injustice and politicized Islam. Unfortunately, the actual sources of Islam do not reject those things. Nor do serious Islamic scholars who are not into the reform thing. The majority of Islamic scholars as well as the majority of Muslims do not think Islam needs to be reformed. Serious Islamic scholars as well as the highest in the pecking order of Islamic political rulers, don't seriously or truthfully recognize a need for reformation. Erdogan of Turkey doesn't even recognize the notion of radical Islam. For him, Islam is Islam. And the rejection of politicized Islam is the rejection of Islam as we know it. It is, in its essence a political system as well as a religious one. It is a theocracy. "Facing the threat of terrorism, intolerance, and social injustice in the name of Islam, we have reflected on how we can transform our communities based on three principles: peace, human rights and secular governance. So they are saying that present day Islam has to be TRANSFORMED (where have we heard that called for in our own country?) so that there can be peace, human rights and secular governance. So they are saying that Islam is not there but may be there sometime in the future. "We are announcing today the formation of an international initiative: the Muslim Reform Movement.
"We have courageous reformers from around the world Why do they have to be courageous? "who will outline our Declaration for Muslim Reform, a living document that we will continue to enhance as our journey continues. We invite our fellow Muslims and neighbors to join us."

Ahh . . . that living document thing. Goes well with transformation, and with hope and change. I recall a debate before an audience shown on PBS I think, not sure of the venue, which had four panel members, two "experts" on each side of the debate to determine, by vote of the audience at the end of the debate on whether Islam was or was not a religion of peace. The best that the two pro-Islamists could come up with after all the evidence was debated, and wrapped up as a closing argument, was a proposal and a hope that Islam, in cooperation between reformist Muslims with the rest of an approving and accepting world, would become a religion of peace. The audience kinda saw through the total weakness of the notion that Islam was, as in NOW, a religion of peace and the majority voted that it wasn't

So, like with the Muslim Reform Movement, it is, as Shakespeare would say, a consummation devoutly to be wished.

But, as was said in the video I posted which you are unable to seriously discuss (and of which there are many more similar ones and growing in number as more people become aware)--that consummation has a very steep hill to climb, a dauntingly long row to hoe. The most difficult task it must succeed in is persuading those who hold the power in Islam to give it up. To convince them to accept a so-called "interpretation" of their foundational texts and structure and scholarly Islamic learning and teaching, along with the vast bureaucracy that supports it all, as really meaning that it is all wrong. And that they, basically, must lose their power and wealth.

That notion of "interpretation" is similar to how we are being transformed and reformed in this country and probably in the West as a whole. It is not an interpretation of how the law is applied and by whom it is applied, but a rewriting of the law by those who are merely supposed to apply it as written. It is transformation disguised as interpretation. It is creating law, culture, society out of whole cloth by those who are not doctrinally empowered to do so.

A group of Islamic self-described reformers who have no standing in Islamic law or jurisprudence, no legal or spiritual authority in the written structure of Islam, no elected or appointed position to do so, are going to somehow rewrite Islam. Actually create a new religion but with the same old name--presumably in order to capture the adherents of the old one under the umbrella of the new one.

Hey, more power to them. But if you're going to change something, you must not only have the power to do so, but must determine that something exists that needs to be changed. If you don't admit or discuss that, your chances of success are slim to none and slim just left town. If it's just a question of differing views, freely expressed, and equally valid, why bother with some undefined, indefinite, unnecessary reform just to satisfy somebody's whimsical opinion?

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Old 01-12-2017, 05:41 AM   #10
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If you want to talk about 0.00009 Muslim terrorists Thats Fine kill them where you find them and we have Army Lt. Gen. Sean MacFarland, commander of the task force overseeing the war, said since he took over last September, about 25,000 ISIS fighters have been killed.
"When you add that to the 20,000 estimated killed prior to our arrival, that's 45,000 enemies taken off the battlefield,

Sunni and Shia because Just being a Muslim doesn't shield them from being the Main targets by each other they will not ban together to fight the west

My Agenda is to show your agenda and to counter the argument that Islam as a whole is rotten ..
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:18 AM   #11
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My Agenda is to show your agenda and to counter the argument that Islam as a whole is rotten ..
My agenda re Islam speaks for itself. I have been honest about it, displayed it abundantly. It has not required anyone to show what it is. It is and has been obvious.

But if you must somehow reveal the obvious, you could do a lot better than saying my agenda is my agenda. And implying that having an agenda, in itself, means that I am wrong. If you want to demonstrate that I am wrong, you could do better than citing articles which actually support my view of Islam. The very fact that those you cite are making this admittedly courageous plea to reform Islam demonstrates that even they recognize that it has deep, dangerous problems which must be rejected. The fact that they claim it takes courage to reject what is "rotten" (your word not mine) in order to, in their own words, "transform our communities based on three principles: peace, human rights and secular governance" speaks of how dangerous it is to do so and that the Islamic communities are not now based on peace, human rights and secular governance. And if you had linked on to the numerous other articles listed in the Gatestone Institute's article that you posted to try to support your agenda, you would have read account after account of various incidences of Muslim violence against others.

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Old 02-18-2017, 12:28 PM   #12
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Another enlightening perspective on Islamism by someone who regularly writes articles for the Gatestone Institute, the organization which wdmso cited with a rebuttal. So, if that organization is a reliable source, I guess Mr. Ibrahim has creds.

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Old 02-18-2017, 12:54 PM   #13
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Hey, wd . . . some hope for reformation, perhaps

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Old 02-18-2017, 01:46 PM   #14
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WOW

"A government that does not trust it's law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust" James Madison

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Regan
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Old 02-18-2017, 03:59 PM   #15
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Hey, wd . . . some hope for reformation, perhaps

Then here is a video of a Sunni cleric in the UK, the leader of COVENTRY SUNNI INSTITUTE. It is the Sunni Muslim view on the assassination of the Pakistani leader in the previous video above it. Watching the videos together shows opposing perspectives and influences (one side we rarely hear about).

The cleric, Nabeel Afzal Zadri, cites the Quran which not only justifies the assassination but demands it as a duty and honor required by the Quran. Some parts are hard to follow as he slides occasionally into Arabic(?) and speaks fast. But watching the whole thing shows that side of Islam that we are told is not Islam.



The mission statement of COVENTRY SUNNI is the peaceful and civil sounding: The Coventry Sunni Jami'yat Awaam based at the Al-Madinah Institute (IN THE UK) offer a variety of services for the community, ranging from daily classes and congregational prayer to inspiring programmes and personal advice. We even provide social hubs to kick back and relax!

COVENTRY SUNNI'S "mission for the youth has flourished into a phenomenon through the guidance of Sunni Jami'yat Awaam president Shaykh Nabeel Afzal Qadri and founder Hujjat ul Islam Shaykh Syed Irfan Shah Mashadi."


While Islamic leaders establish themselves under the rubric of Peace in Western countries, their mission for youth is enlightened by messages like this video. You have to search hard to find these videos, but they abound. And they breed, recruit, fighters for ISIS far more than anything Trump has said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...e-9558680.html

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/new...d-know-7908812

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...raq-Syria.html

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Old 02-18-2017, 06:31 PM   #16
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makes me want to move to Switzerland

"A government that does not trust it's law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust" James Madison

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Old 02-19-2017, 10:55 AM   #18
detbuch
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[QUOTE=wdmso;1117165]detbuch I found this on youtube it must be applied to all Baptist because it came from you tube..



If the people in your video were foreigners who applied for immigration or refugee status, should we welcome them, or even allow them, into the country?

WDMSO: "PS if the Pakistan clip surprised you you haven't be paying attention .. what the guy said has been going on for decades"

It didn't surprise me. I have been paying attention for quite awhile. I, personally, don't want such people to enter our country. I, personally, don't want institutes or schools or community centers or street organizers to teach or preach or encourage such bigoted, undemocratic, totalitarian, anti-constitutional, dangerous rubbish in our country.

And I don't think the British people want that either. Yet it has happened there and spreading. How did that happen?

And I don't want political correctness to blind us to reality so as not to hurt the feelings of those who are not able to put their own house in order.

WDMSO: "So was he arrested for doing what you said he was doing ??"

To which "he" are you referring. The assassin in the first video was arrested by the Pakistani authorities, convicted by a Pakistani court, then the devout Pakistani Muslims protested and threatened so vehemently that the Pakistani Court system decided to stop the process and the assassin was effectively let go.

The "he" in the second video, the "shayk," the leader of COVENTRY SUNNI in Britain was not arrested. They have, or pretend to have, free speech in Britain. The British Muslim "Shayk," as did the Pakistani Muslims, vehemently proclaimed that the Pakistani assassin was justified and duty bound by the tenets of Islam to do the killing. And he called for all true Muslims to defend Islam against non-believers and against secular legal systems with whatever force, even killing, necessary to protect their faith. Even if it meant sacrificing their own life.

It is this type of internal Islamic influence that is the real source, the real recruitment, of fighters for ISIS from non-Islamic countries. Not Trump.

And if the patterns that have developed in Europe are the trend, then Islamic councils or courts will eventually be demanded by Islamic communities when they grow large enough. As they have done in the UK and the rest of Western Europe. And more videos will be disseminated to inspire the spiritual jihad to defend and spread Islam.

Here's an article from one of your previous sources, the Gatestone Institute:
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2...aria-hezbollah

WDMSO: "didn't have to look that hard The Americans: 15 Who Left the United States to Join ISIS" [url]http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-uncovered/americans-15-who-left-united-states-join-isis-n573611[/url/][QUOTE]

I was referring to the video of the British Shayk as being the type that is harder to find. Probably because it is too revealing of what Islam really is, not what reformers want it to be. And maybe it's not that hard to find such videos (and there are many), but one has to be looking on pro-Islamic sites rather than politically correct ones.

The article you cite seems to confirm the danger of true, devout, Islam as it really is, as the British Shayk promotes it, rather than what we want Islam to become. The 15 Americans were inspired to be "more religious," or "more devout." To answer the call to fight for the faith. They "embraced Islam." One claimed "It's Islam over everything." Where do young religious idealists get their inspiration? Do they just dream up something out of thin air? Or are they inspired by the fervent messages like those put out by the Shayk?

And the danger of true Islam, as it is, when large Muslim enclaves develop, as is being revealed in Europe, is reason, in my opinion, to be highly selective when allowing immigrants into our country. Eventually, if it is not soon "reformed," true Islam will spread its war against democratic values into the West itself. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Last edited by detbuch; 02-19-2017 at 11:42 AM..
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