Credibility

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You mean a peaceful, stable Iraq, which disintegrated under his watch?

Iraq is a sovereign nation they are responsible their own disintegration .. they wanted us out we left but again fact dont matter


U.S. President George W. Bush hailed the passing of the agreement between the two countries. "The Security Agreement addresses our presence, activities, and withdrawal from Iraq"


On November 27, 2008, the Iraqi Parliament ratified a Status of Forces Agreement with the United States, establishing that U.S. combat forces will withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011, but allowing for further negotiation if the Iraqi Prime Minister believes Iraq is not stable enough.

Obama deserves credit, obviously, for stopping the freefall in the economy. But that needs to be balanced against the staggering amount of debt that he accumulated, and where did this staggering debt come from you just cant throw out numbers

The CBO found that the largest contributor to the debt was the Obama tax cuts, which were an extension of the Bush tax cuts. They added $858 billion to the debt in 2011 and 2012.

The next largest was the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. It added $787 billion between 2009 and 2012. It cut taxes, extended unemployment benefits, and funded job-creating public works projects.

Like the Obama tax cuts, the ARRA was an attempt to stimulate the economy after the 2008 financial crisis

Obama increased military spending to an average of $800 billion a year. In fact, his security budget request of $895 billion in FY 2011 set a new record. In FY 2013, he requested $851 billion. That happened even though he withdrew troops from Iraq in 2012 and eliminated the threat from Osama bin Laden in 2011. Obama spent $857 billion in contingency funds during his administration. That was more than the $850 billion Bush devoted to the War on Terror.


The guy is vulgar, offensive, paranoid, cocky, and brash. But he knows how to cut through the red tape and get stuff done. Will the good outweigh the bad? Maybe, maybe not.

But if you want to point out every single time he acts like an azz, you will be busy for the next 4 years. Very busy. he dosn't know crap about that when it comes to Government or how it works the business world and government are not interchangeable..



The Carrier jobs. Obama went on TV and specifically said those jobs could not be saved, and he mocked Trump for suggesting he could save them. Trump picked up the phone and got it done, with Pence's help. Would never have happened under Obama, because even Obama admitted that he had no way of saving those jobs.

.... Obama admitted that he had no way of saving these job of course they are a private company and this is the same reason Trump did not save them either ... why do you keep insisting he did and he hadn't even been sworn in yet

The state of Indiana vowed to give the company $7 million in tax incentives over a decade, and the company agreed to invest $16 million in keeping the company in the state.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

.... Obama admitted that he had no way of saving these job of course they are a private company and this is the same reason Trump did not save them either ... why do you keep insisting he did and he hadn't even been sworn in yet

The state of Indiana vowed to give the company $7 million in tax incentives over a decade, and the company agreed to invest $16 million in keeping the company in the state.

Trump (the president elect) and Mike Pence (the VP elect who was governor of Indiana at the time) worked with Carrier to keep those jobs.

"Trump did not save them either "

Yes he did. With Mike Pence, his VP. SO if Trump says "two plus two equals four", are you going to say he's wrong? Are you that partisan?

"he hadn't even been sworn in yet"

Which makes it more impressive to me that he took the time to do that which Obama was incapable of doing.

"Obama admitted that he had no way of saving these job of course they are a private company "

Obama passed his "stimulus plan" that gave huge $$ to private companies like Solyndra. Not sure what you rpoint is.

WDMSO, you need to evaluate these things a bit more fairly. Not everything that's liberal is good, not everything that's conservative is evil. Put down the Kool Aid and think rationally.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Trump (the president elect) and Mike Pence (the VP elect who was governor of Indiana at the time) worked with Carrier to keep those jobs.

"Trump did not save them either "

Yes he did. With Mike Pence, his VP. SO if Trump says "two plus two equals four", are you going to say he's wrong? Are you that partisan?

"he hadn't even been sworn in yet"

Which makes it more impressive to me that he took the time to do that which Obama was incapable of doing.

seems you misssed this part The state of Indiana vowed to give the company $7 million in tax incentives over a decade, and the company agreed to invest $16 million in keeping the company in the state.
"Obama admitted that he had no way of saving these job of course they are a private company "

Obama passed his "stimulus plan" that gave huge $$ to private companies like Solyndra. Not sure what you rpoint is.

ARRA's primary objective was to save existing jobs and create new ones as soon as possible. Other objectives were to provide temporary relief programs for those most affected by the recession and invest in infrastructure, education, health, and renewable energy.

[COLOR="blue"]the old Solyndra angle who need to put down the kool aid?? Overall, the agency has loaned $34.2 billion to a variety of businesses, under a program designed to speed up development of clean-energy technology. Companies have defaulted on $780 million of that — a loss rate of 2.28 percent. The agency also has collected $810 million in interest payments, putting the program $30 million in the black. again fact dont matter /COLOR]

WDMSO, you need to evaluate these things a bit more fairly. Not everything that's liberal is good, not everything that's conservative is evil. Put down the Kool Aid and think rationally.

hows this kool aid

CBO and JCT estimate that enacting the American Health Care Act would reduce federal deficits by $337 billion over the coming decade and increase the number of people who are uninsured by 24 million in 2026 relative to current law.

Coverage and Premiums
The number of people who are uninsured would increase by 18 million in the first new plan year following enactment of the bill. Later, after the elimination of the ACA’s expansion of Medicaid eligibility and of subsidies for insurance purchased through the ACA marketplaces, that number would increase to 27 million, and then to 32 million in 2026.
Premiums in the nongroup market (for individual policies purchased through the marketplaces or directly from insurers) would increase by 20 percent to 25 percent—relative to projections under current law—in the first new plan year following enactment. The increase would reach about 50 percent in the year following the elimination of the Medicaid expansion and the marketplace subsidies, and premiums would about double by 2026.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

hows this kool aid

CBO and JCT estimate that enacting the American Health Care Act would reduce federal deficits by $337 billion over the coming decade and increase the number of people who are uninsured by 24 million in 2026 relative to current law.

Coverage and Premiums
The number of people who are uninsured would increase by 18 million in the first new plan year following enactment of the bill. Later, after the elimination of the ACA’s expansion of Medicaid eligibility and of subsidies for insurance purchased through the ACA marketplaces, that number would increase to 27 million, and then to 32 million in 2026.
Premiums in the nongroup market (for individual policies purchased through the marketplaces or directly from insurers) would increase by 20 percent to 25 percent—relative to projections under current law—in the first new plan year following enactment. The increase would reach about 50 percent in the year following the elimination of the Medicaid expansion and the marketplace subsidies, and premiums would about double by 2026.

Since there would be no mandate forcing people to get insurance or get taxed, there would be many who do not choose to get insured. Projections under current law would not account for the positive reaction of the market when choice, competition, and less regulation become part of insurance. CBO often does not get it right. Supposedly this is only the first step toward returning to market based insurance and away from totally government mandated, regulated, and greatly subsidized.

It's the freedom thing. In that direction. You know. Like you say. Things change. That's how the world works. Why bitch?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

hows this kool aid

CBO and JCT estimate that enacting the American Health Care Act would reduce federal deficits by $337 billion over the coming decade and increase the number of people who are uninsured by 24 million in 2026 relative to current law.

Coverage and Premiums
The number of people who are uninsured would increase by 18 million in the first new plan year following enactment of the bill. Later, after the elimination of the ACA’s expansion of Medicaid eligibility and of subsidies for insurance purchased through the ACA marketplaces, that number would increase to 27 million, and then to 32 million in 2026.
Premiums in the nongroup market (for individual policies purchased through the marketplaces or directly from insurers) would increase by 20 percent to 25 percent—relative to projections under current law—in the first new plan year following enactment. The increase would reach about 50 percent in the year following the elimination of the Medicaid expansion and the marketplace subsidies, and premiums would about double by 2026.

WDMSO, president-elect Trump and VP-elect Pence, brokered the deal that saved those jobs. You can't say it out loud because you can't admit Trump did something good.

Obama's stimulus bill was sold with the promise that it would keep unemployment below 8%. It didn't. Not even close. Unemployment went to 10%. He ws only off by a few million jobs.

I hate the GOP plan to replace Obamacare, as it stands now. I don't like taking insurance away from that many.

See? I can think for myself. Try it sometime.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I hate the GOP plan to replace Obamacare, as it stands now. I don't like taking insurance away from that many.

Do you believe that insurance should be given rather than bought? If insurance is given, why have insurance as an intermediary. Just directly give the health care instead of giving the insurance first. What's the point of health insurance if it is given rather than bought? Just have universal health care paid by government and get the whole thing over with. Bing, Bang, boom . . . done.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Do you believe that insurance should be given rather than bought? If insurance is given, why have insurance as an intermediary. Just directly give the health care instead of giving the insurance first. What's the point of health insurance if it is given rather than bought? Just have universal health care paid by government and get the whole thing over with. Bing, Bang, boom . . . done.

I believe healthcare should be available to those who can't secure it for themselves. Whether it's insurance or not, is irrelevant to me. I don't think there are huge numbers of poor people dying in the streets because they don't have healthcare. But there are some people not getting the treatment they deserve as Americans, and I don't like it.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I believe healthcare should be available to those who can't secure it for themselves. Whether it's insurance or not, is irrelevant to me. I don't think there are huge numbers of poor people dying in the streets because they don't have healthcare.

Wasn't that the case before Obamacare?

But there are some people not getting the treatment they deserve as Americans, and I don't like it.

If you believe that being an American means all Americans should be provided the same product by private businesses regardless of whether or not they can afford to pay for it, then you believe in socialism. And if you believe that healthcare is different than other products and should be delivered in that socialistic manner, then you should have no objection, should even support, universal healthcare paid for by government.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

WDMSO, president-elect Trump and VP-elect Pence, brokered the deal that saved those jobs. You can't say it out loud because you can't admit Trump did something good.

Trump all the credit for Nothing

Obama's stimulus bill was sold with the promise that it would keep unemployment below 8%. It didn't. Not even close. Unemployment went to 10%. He ws only off by a few million jobs.

No credit for trying

I hate the GOP plan to replace Obamacare, as it stands now. I don't like taking insurance away from that many.

See? I can think for myself. Try it sometime.

Really Seems you hate the GOP plan with no mention of Tump promises but had let us know Obama failed ... thats thinking for your self all right

"We're gonna come up with a new plan that's going to be better health care for more people at a lesser cost," Trump

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

"We're gonna come up with a new plan that's going to be better health care for more people at a lesser cost," Trump

"We're gonna come up with a new plan that's going to be better health care for more people at a lesser cost," Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Schumer, etc.......

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

"We're gonna come up with a new plan that's going to be better health care for more people at a lesser cost," Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Schumer, etc.......

they did .. maybe you missed the last 8 years when the GOP refused to make needed changes voting to repeal and replace 51 time

But in thoses 8 years never formulated a plan to replace it

Trump: ‘Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated’


Amazing

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Really Seems you hate the GOP plan with no mention of Tump promises but had let us know Obama failed ... thats thinking for your self all right

"We're gonna come up with a new plan that's going to be better health care for more people at a lesser cost," Trump

"Trump all the credit for Nothing "

Everything you said there is wrong. I didn't give Trump all the credit, I give him some, because he played a role. "For nothing" - they saved hundreds of jobs for working, blue collar Americans. To you, that's nothing, because you didn't vote for Trump. You are incapable of intellectual honesty.

"No credit for trying "

Obama spent almost a trillion dollars (which we had to borrow, naturally) on a stimulus plan that was a flop. Sure he tried. But he failed miserably, and that failure will cost us huge amounts of $$. But that doesn't bother you, because he has a (d) after his name. But every failure of Trump's, is something that bothers you to no end. We get it, we get it.

Trump hasn't gone back on hos healthcare promises yet, because that proposed bill is nowhere near becoming law. Let's see what it looks like when they are ready to pass it. If at that point it falls short of what he promised, I will be the first one to call him on that. Fair enough?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

hows this kool aid

CBO and JCT estimate that enacting the American Health Care Act would reduce federal deficits by $337 billion over the coming decade and increase the number of people who are uninsured by 24 million in 2026 relative to current law.

Coverage and Premiums
The number of people who are uninsured would increase by 18 million in the first new plan year following enactment of the bill. Later, after the elimination of the ACA’s expansion of Medicaid eligibility and of subsidies for insurance purchased through the ACA marketplaces, that number would increase to 27 million, and then to 32 million in 2026.
Premiums in the nongroup market (for individual policies purchased through the marketplaces or directly from insurers) would increase by 20 percent to 25 percent—relative to projections under current law—in the first new plan year following enactment. The increase would reach about 50 percent in the year following the elimination of the Medicaid expansion and the marketplace subsidies, and premiums would about double by 2026.

just sayin'....

"The CBO has already revised its projections of enrollment in Obamacare’s exchanges several times. They’ll have to revise them again, because their current (March 2016) baseline predicts that exchange enrollment will skyrocket to 18 million by 2018. There’s, in fact, no evidence that exchange enrollment will be significantly higher than current levels going forward, given rising premiums and a worsening risk pool."