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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

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Old 09-30-2017, 03:08 PM   #91
PaulS
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I think it is funny that someone wearing a flag inappropriately would complain about someone taking a knee during the nation anthem when those folks say they mean no disrespect to the military, flag, etc.
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:28 PM   #92
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I don't think the shoes Palin was wearing were actual flags. Nor were they a protest against the flag. If anything, as Scott noted, they were showing a symbolic pride in the stars and stripes. But if you think she was trying to show disrespect for the flag, that's you're opinion. If you think she was protesting the flag and what it represents, then you and Palin are probably not on the same philosophical wavelength. She didn't, as far as I know, make a public statement that the flag represented oppression.

Was your attached photo of Sarah's fashion statement somehow supposed to be evidence that Colin was not protesting the flag and what it represents?

you and Scott proved my point its all its all perception.. Palain wears it for Marketing the Flag... to promote herself my perception

Scott thinks its pride his perception

I see it as disrespectful to the Nation and Veterans when people in NC were carrying around Nazi flags.. much more so than taking a knee My perception

Trump and many saw it as just a protest but taking a knee those SOB'S!! others perception

Kneel or stand, fly a flag or dont. be a Vet or not . wear flag heels or maybe only on the weekend ,,,If for what ever reason you Have bought into the Narrative that some how your more Patriotic then another American. because you do or did any of those things. your not More Patriotic your just arrogant
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:37 PM   #93
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Isn't there a flag code or something similar about how to display the flag.
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4 U.S. Code § 8 - Respect for flag
US Code
Notes
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No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.

(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker’s desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.

(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.
(Added Pub. L. 105–225, § 2(a), Aug. 12, 1998, 112 Stat. 1497.)

Kneeling is not listed
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:58 PM   #94
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Isn't there a flag code or something similar about how to display the flag.
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Yes, and it says you should stand for the national anthem.

§171. Conduct during playing

During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.
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Old 09-30-2017, 09:24 PM   #95
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you and Scott proved my point its all its all perception.. Palain wears it for Marketing the Flag... to promote herself my perception

Scott thinks its pride his perception

I see it as disrespectful to the Nation and Veterans when people in NC were carrying around Nazi flags.. much more so than taking a knee My perception

Trump and many saw it as just a protest but taking a knee those SOB'S!! others perception

Kneel or stand, fly a flag or dont. be a Vet or not . wear flag heels or maybe only on the weekend ,,,If for what ever reason you Have bought into the Narrative that some how your more Patriotic then another American. because you do or did any of those things. your not More Patriotic your just arrogant
There is no need for "perception." I quoted Koepernick's reason in his own words. Your perception doesn't agree with his words.
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Old 10-01-2017, 03:45 AM   #96
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I see it as disrespectful to the Nation and Veterans when people in NC were carrying around Nazi flags..
I googled "Charlottesville Protest" and viewed all of the images just out of curiosity as I didn't pay much attention to the whole thing...I counted exactly "1" Nazi flag, lots of confederate flags which you almost never see in the south and lots of fools dressed like it's halloween....there were three images containing the nazi flag but it was the same guy in each and I'm pretty sure if there were Nazi flags everywhere there would have been photographers flocking to capture the imagery...personally, I'd ban the Nazi flag as it's symbolism is nauseating and the regime the it stood for had no redeeming value...the person carrying that flag should probably be institutionalized for serious mental illness...but we don't do that any more...we put them on the street so that some can show up at rallies with Nazi flags and so others can get elected to Congress etc..

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Old 10-01-2017, 05:25 AM   #97
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you and Scott proved my point its all its all perception.. Palain wears it for Marketing the Flag... to promote herself my perception

What is your perception of Kaepernick's stated reason for kneeling instead of standing? Do you perceive a respect for the flag or anthem in his words? Do you perceive a respect for the country in his words? Why is it necessary to "perceive" what he meant when he explicitly stated why he did not stand?

Scott thinks its pride his perception

Do you "perceive" that Palin was saying that she did not respect the flag or country by wearing those shoes? Has she actually said anything, such as Kaepernick did, to show lack of pride or respect for the flag or anthem?

I see it as disrespectful to the Nation and Veterans when people in NC were carrying around Nazi flags.. much more so than taking a knee My perception

What has someone carrying a Nazi flag have to do with Kaepernick kneeling rather than standing? Oh . . . wait . . . I get it. It's a matter of quantity. You think it's much MORE disrespectful than kneeling during the anthem. So, then, you do feel it's disrespectful to kneel, but just not as much as it is to carry a Nazi flag. I see the connection now.

Trump and many saw it as just a protest but taking a knee those SOB'S!! others perception

The "perception is reality" thing is misused. It only works at a superficial level. Saying perception is actually reality is saying that there is no reality, that there is no such thing as that which we define as "a thing that exists in fact, having previously only existed in one's mind" or "the state or quality of having existence or substance."

Kneel or stand, fly a flag or dont. be a Vet or not . wear flag heels or maybe only on the weekend ,,,If for what ever reason you Have bought into the Narrative that some how your more Patriotic then another American. because you do or did any of those things. your not More Patriotic your just arrogant
I don't recall saying any of the things you describe here as being more or less patriotic. For the record, I am not offended, nor care very little, that athletes kneel during the anthem. What I care about is why they say they're doing so. The statistical facts ("reality") don't bear out their complaint. Their "perception" is skewed. I care that they believe they or their perceived kind are being oppressed in the manner and quantity they express. And that they help to instill that perception in others. I care that, rather than making for a more harmonious society, they are making it more difficult to have a society.

I care that there is a concerted, deliberate, attempt to change the legal structure and social values which once made us the envy of the actually oppressed people of other nations. And I care that, rather than preserve our constitutional structure and values of individual freedom and responsibility, we entice others to come here not mainly for freedom, but for the new America which doesn't require actual assimilation into the original American ideal and which promises lots of goodies regardless of efforts to earn them. I care about the balkanization, the conflicting divisiveness this new America engenders.

That we are dickering about the kneeling rather than standing, and whether it comports with a code of conduct, and whether its more or less patriotic than wearing so-called flag shoes is why I said this thread is stuck on stupid.

It is not the kneeling, but the reason for it that is stupid. We are stuck on not discussing that but on more useless wahatevers.

BTW, not only did TDF blow your and Paul's code bit out of the water by pointing out that the code also requires standing during the anthem, but in my opinion, even the code thing is a bit much. It is more a wish list, a recommendation, than an enforceable law. Not even the government follows the code. The Post Office has been issuing stamps for several years depicting the flag. There are even several series of flag stamps. These stamps violate sections b, c, e, g, h, and i of the code. That is, if we consider the stamps as actual flags. But then, if we consider shoes to be actual flags, then I guess stamps could be too.

Also, section j of the code is really too much heading toward nonsense. It says that the flag is considered a "living thing." Really? Well, I guess if perception is reality, then one can perceive that.

Last edited by detbuch; 10-01-2017 at 05:50 AM..
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Old 10-01-2017, 11:07 AM   #98
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Yes, and it says you should stand for the national anthem.

§171. Conduct during playing

During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.
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Should stand .. it doesn't say you will stand or must stand ... because as Americans you have freedom of choice or are we North korea now?
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Old 10-01-2017, 12:48 PM   #99
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Should stand .. it doesn't say you will stand or must stand ... because as Americans you have freedom of choice or are we North korea now?
It tells you how to show proper respect, if your not standing then your not respecting....why is that such a hard concept to understand?

So if you are physically able to, you should stand.

And another thing, the people that they are trying to get sympathetic to their cause.....really don't want to discuss the intent of the word "Should"

You absolutely have the freedom to choose. And sometimes that choice comes with consequences. This consequence of this choice is that fans are choosing to think they are A-Holes. Welcome to America.
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Old 10-01-2017, 01:23 PM   #100
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It tells you how to show proper respect, if your not standing then your not respecting....why is that such a hard concept to understand? do have an issue with people talking drinking beer on their phone your upset and 10 people on a field taking an Knee thats Amazing whos policing them??
So if you are physically able to, you should stand.

And another thing, the people that they are trying to get sympathetic to their cause.....really don't want to discuss the intent of the word "Should"

You absolutely have the freedom to choose. And sometimes that choice comes with consequences. This consequence of this choice is that fans are choosing to think they are A-Holes. Welcome to America. no only the Fans you agree with its called echo chamber
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Again facts dont matter

U.S. Army veteran Nate Boyer convinced Colin Kaepernick to kneel, rather than sit, while protesting police brutality during the national anthem.

Shocking

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Old 10-01-2017, 01:31 PM   #101
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Again facts dont matter

U.S. Army veteran Nate Boyer convinced Colin Kaepernick to kneel, rather than sit, while protesting police brutality during the national anthem.

Shocking
What does that have to do with what I replied with.

and I could give a rat's ass what Nate Boyer did.

U.S. Navy veteran TDF thinks they are a bunch of dumbasses for kneeling during the national anthem to protest.

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Old 10-01-2017, 01:32 PM   #102
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do have an issue with people talking drinking beer on their phone
Yes, yes I do....and I think they are A-Holes too

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Old 10-02-2017, 11:22 AM   #103
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Should stand .. it doesn't say you will stand or must stand ... because as Americans you have freedom of choice or are we North korea now?
TDF never said, or even implied, that anyone should be compelled to stand. Paul asked if there was a code, and there is, and TDF posted it. He answered the question EXACTLY as it was asked. I know that a direct answer to a direct question isn't something that liberals have an easy time recognizing, but that's what it was.

It's a free country. They are free to kneel without fear of getting arrested. Fans are free to get offended by it. And because they are in the entertainment industry, if they offend enough fans, the owners are probably free to fire anyone who does it, if they want to. If I act in a way that hurts my company's bottom line, they can fire me, even if I'm not breaking any laws. I can't walk around with a t-shirt that says my company stinks, and expect to keep my job.

I would never support a law that made it a crime to kneel during the anthem. But I would be very happy if they all got fired for doing it. Having the legal right to do something, and having the right to do it while at work without fear of consequence, are two very different things.
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