Trump to meet with Putin

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

A) did you read what the comment was in response too.
B) I’m far removed from his “Base”. I didn’t vote for the man, or the woman for that matter.
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Dude - yer my Spirit Animal

Originally Posted by spence

The significant election meddling wasn't even brought to Obama's attention until the summer of 2016. It's not like they have real-time visibility into everything that's going on and it's not like there was no response. Obama did choose to delay some of the response until after the election to not create an even bigger election issue. Neither option was ideal so they drew a moderate line. I don't have an issue with that.

Regardless, what's even the point? Much larger issue is we have a national security apparatus insisting Russia will do it again and a POTUS who still denies it ever occurred.

And it a problem with the previous administration for one reason, and a problem for the current administration in another.

Gee - wish we had some warning on whom would be our number one geopolitical foe.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Gee - wish we had some warning on whom would be our number one geopolitical foe.

Yea, Obama took office and instructed the gov to cease all counter intelligence operations around Russia. It's a wonder how we even detected it in the first place. Good thing special agent McBiff wondered why that BLM meme kept on showing up in his facebook feed.

I think people have watched so many movies they think we have super powers, minority report kind of stuff. We're good yes, but you can't unhack something.

[Pete F.]

Now Trump will slowly walk it back
Watch his tweets, he’s started already
Mr it’s all me
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Now Trump will slowly walk it back
Watch his tweets, he’s started already
Mr it’s all me
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The tragic irony is that Trump supporters say they like him because he's a tough guy and stands up for America. Yet in front of Putin he's a lapdog and betrays his own nation.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by scottw

someone has been watching way too much MSNBC

Haven't seen a TV in more than a week, luckily.
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[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Thanks John, nice response to a misguided attack.
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I was trying to point out that I wasn't trying to attack him personally, but clearly didn't come across that way. I just think he is wrong when he says Obama sucks. Obama may not have done everything right, but his reasons for handling the Russia thing the way he did were best intentions. I also don't think John is supporting trump in this so no need for him to go to Guantanamo . Spring a guy who favors a Russian president with Soviet era behavior over the u.s. intelligence agencies is treasonous. If Obama or Hillary did this, there would be right wingers taking up arms in the street.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by zimmy

I just think he is wrong when he says Obama sucks. Obama may not have done everything right, but his reasons for handling the Russia thing the way he did were best intentions.

Most presidential rankings I've seen put Obama in the low teens, some even top ten.

Trump right now is in Harding territory.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by zimmy

I was trying to point out that I wasn't trying to attack him personally, but clearly didn't come across that way. I just think he is wrong when he says Obama sucks. Obama may not have done everything right, but his reasons for handling the Russia thing the way he did were best intentions. I also don't think John is supporting trump in this so no need for him to go to Guantanamo . Spring a guy who favors a Russian president with Soviet era behavior over the u.s. intelligence agencies is treasonous. If Obama or Hillary did this, there would be right wingers taking up arms in the street.
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You mean like Bernie?

PS - I was not feeling so much a victim of attack. I do think Obama is not in the top 20, let alone Besty Evahhh. I gave my reasoning for this.

[JohnR]

PS - calling this Treason and Impeachable and a modern day Pearl Harbor or 9/11 with a dash of Handmaiden's Tale is no different than many on the right calling for O to be impeached. A high bar must be met and it has not been.

If the IC or Mueller determines that Trump IS under Putin's thumb - AND CAN PROVE IT - than we have something we need to follow.

I've stated before I do not like how T gets all meek around VVP and this is one of my biggest concerns.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

PS - calling this Treason and Impeachable and a modern day Pearl Harbor or 9/11 with a dash of Handmaiden's Tale is no different than many on the right calling for O to be impeached. A high bar must be met and it has not been.

Doesn't meet the standard for Treason but he certainly could pass the bar for impeachment. Indictments have been handed out and Trump is impeding prosecution of the law against his oath to defend the Constution. Clinton was impeached for far, far less.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by JohnR

PS - calling this Treason and Impeachable and a modern day Pearl Harbor or 9/11 with a dash of Handmaiden's Tale is no different than many on the right calling for O to be impeached. A high bar must be met and it has not been.

If the IC or Mueller determines that Trump IS under Putin's thumb - AND CAN PROVE IT - than we have something we need to follow.

I've stated before I do not like how T gets all meek around VVP and this is one of my biggest concerns.

It is a betrayal of the country. It gives aid and comfort to an enemy. It puts a foreign entity above the country. True, it is not to an enforceable standard. 9/11 was an outside entity attacking us and the country was united against it. This is the most powerful person in the world, with support of 30-40 percent of the country, aligning with a modern dictator over crimes against our democracy. It will be a full chapter in the history books in twenty years.
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

Doesn't meet the standard for Treason but he certainly could pass the bar for impeachment. Indictments have been handed out and Trump is impeding prosecution of the law against his oath to defend the Constution. Clinton was impeached for far, far less.

No

Originally Posted by zimmy

It is a betrayal of the country. It gives aid and comfort to an enemy. It puts a foreign entity above the country. True, it is not to an enforceable standard. 9/11 was an outside entity attacking us and the country was united against it. This is the most powerful person in the world, with support of 30-40 percent of the country, aligning with a modern dictator over crimes against our democracy. It will be a full chapter in the history books in twenty years.
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And, no.


Actually you are correct, the people that write the history books
tend to be pretty left leaning.

We need real, irrefutable evidence of RUS smothering DJT. The bar must be high

[JohnR]

PS

Most things you see now be VERY suspicious of - NOW is the time that both sides will be hammered by RUS meme engines and bots.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by JohnR

No




And, no.


Actually you are correct, the people that write the history books
tend to be pretty left leaning.

We need real, irrefutable evidence of RUS smothering DJT. The bar must be high

Pretty sure it is coming. Once we get the dirt from Flynn and Cohen, it will be crystal clear.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

PS

Most things you see now be VERY suspicious of - NOW is the time that both sides will be hammered by RUS meme engines and bots.

Do you think Mueller's team is being hypnotized by memes?

What's known already is pretty damning. Two credible threads of collusion (one proven) and it's looking like three separate lines of meddling with the social media campaign, DNC hack and now the NRA money scheme.

It's like the house is burning down and some are wondering if they smell smoke.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Pretty sure it is coming. Once we get the dirt from Flynn and Cohen, it will be crystal clear.
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Dunno - we'll see. Need something concrete.

Originally Posted by spence

Do you think Mueller's team is being hypnotized by memes?

What's known already is pretty damning. Two credible threads of collusion (one proven) and it's looking like three separate lines of meddling with the social media campaign, DNC hack and now the NRA money scheme.

It's like the house is burning down and some are wondering if they smell smoke.

Not at all. I want to see US IC chasing the foreign guys stirring the pot.

Two credible threads? Name one. RUS influence measures during the campaign is not something Mueller can crush Trump on. It is a big problem but you need proof Trump did it - brought RUS in or used RUS intel systems - irrefutable proof.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Two credible threads? Name one. RUS influence measures during the campaign is not something Mueller can crush Trump on. It is a big problem but you need proof Trump did it - irrefutable proof.

If you pin it on the campaign it's going to be nearly as damaging to Trump even if you don't have evidence he directed it. Might not result in instant impeachment but it's going to hurt bad. I can't believe he wasn't in the loop, not for a second.

Hell, Don Jr already admitted to collusion even if it wasn't successful. The new indictments draw an evidenced connection from the DNC hack to someone in frequent contact with sr campaign members. The circle is getting tighter...

[detbuch]

JohnR, I respect your objectivity and knowledge of U.S. intel, what is your opinion of this:

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

JohnR, I respect your objectivity and knowledge of U.S. intel, what is your opinion of this:

In August 2014 Binney was among the signatories of an open letter by the group Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity to German chancellor Angela Merkel in which they urged the Chancellor to be suspicious of U.S. intelligence regarding the alleged invasion of Russia in Eastern Ukraine.[19][20][21] In the open letter, the group said:

[A]ccusations of a major Russian "invasion" of Ukraine appear not to be supported by reliable intelligence. Rather, the "intelligence" seems to be of the same dubious, politically "fixed" kind used 12 years ago to "justify" the U.S.-led attack on Iraq.[20]

guess Russia never invade they did

Binney claims the U.S. intelligence community's assessment that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election is false, and that the DNC e-mails were leaked by an insider instead

On January 23, 2018, Binney made an appearance on the Infowars During the show, host Alex Jones announced that Binney had been able to provide him with the actual memo, and the purported leaked document was shown on air.[27] However, this was in fact a public document that had been available on the website of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence since at least May 2017.

should we take him seriously no but some one has

[spence]

Good god, they shot down a #^&#^&#^&#^&ing passenger aircraft.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

In August 2014 Binney was among the signatories of an open letter by the group Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity to German chancellor Angela Merkel in which they urged the Chancellor to be suspicious of U.S. intelligence regarding the alleged invasion of Russia in Eastern Ukraine.[19][20][21] In the open letter, the group said:

[A]ccusations of a major Russian "invasion" of Ukraine appear not to be supported by reliable intelligence. Rather, the "intelligence" seems to be of the same dubious, politically "fixed" kind used 12 years ago to "justify" the U.S.-led attack on Iraq.[20]

guess Russia never invade they did

Binney claims the U.S. intelligence community's assessment that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election is false, and that the DNC e-mails were leaked by an insider instead

On January 23, 2018, Binney made an appearance on the Infowars During the show, host Alex Jones announced that Binney had been able to provide him with the actual memo, and the purported leaked document was shown on air.[27] However, this was in fact a public document that had been available on the website of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence since at least May 2017.

should we take him seriously no but some one has

Did you watch the video?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Did you watch the video?

If it’s on video that makes it true
Next you’ll be saying the twin towers was fake
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[Jim in CT]

a modern day pearl harbor. so not only trump hitler, he’s also the japanese military industrial complex. that’s some kind of super villain.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

If it’s on video that makes it true
Next you’ll be saying the twin towers was fake
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Did you watch the video?

[Nebe]

The world is fixated on this outrageous circus event while the gop quietly plods on... systematicly taking apart everything that was put into place to protect us from pollution, Corperate greed, human rights, reproductive rights and public education. Wake up people

But her emails!!!!!
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Nebe

The world is fixated on this outrageous circus event while the gop quietly plods on... systematicly taking apart everything that was put into place to protect us from pollution, Corperate greed, human rights, reproductive rights and public education. Wake up people

But her emails!!!!!
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What you call corporate greed will find ways to make profits off of products and systems that protect us from pollution. And all those other things as well. As long as we are able to protect and promote some form of free market, you won't have to worry about your pet rights disappearing. And free market competition will create constant innovation to make it cheaper and better.

On the other hand, if government bureaucratic geniuses regulate how, what, when, where and how much, in crony partnership with "greedy" corporations, costs will go up, innovation will go down, and we will need government assistance to pay for it all.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by detbuch

What you call corporate greed will find ways to make profits off of products and systems that protect us from pollution. And all those other things as well. As long as we are able to protect and promote some form of free market, you won't have to worry about your pet rights disappearing. And free market competition will create constant innovation to make it cheaper and better.

On the other hand, if government bureaucratic geniuses regulate how, what, when, where and how much, in crony partnership with "greedy" corporations, costs will go up, innovation will go down, and we will need government assistance to pay for it all.

Please explain to me what products the top 100 are producing that we are buying, other than gas, oil, coal? So if regulation on the top polluters is lightened and they can stop investing in technology to keep up with ever tightening regulations to stem global warming, why would then not just increase their bottom line instead of spending that money to reduce emissions?

While your view on the open market is valid, I personally believe corporate greed is sometimes more of a driving factor, than investing in making a better product for the consumer. I've seen it first hand and while the company I worked for was small potatoes, their profits were in their pockets well ahead of improvements for the people making those profits go up.

https://www.theguardian.com/sustaina...climate-change

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by detbuch

JohnR, I respect your objectivity and knowledge of U.S. intel, what is your opinion of this:

That I don't have an hour to watch it ; )

At least not yet anyway

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

The world is fixated on this outrageous circus event while the gop quietly plods on... systematicly taking apart everything that was put into place to protect us from pollution, Corperate greed, human rights, reproductive rights and public education. Wake up people

But her emails!!!!!
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pollution- us led the world in decrease of carbon emissions last year.

corporate greed - has always existed, yet right now unemployment is very low, and take home pay for folks is up thanks to tax cuts.

human rights - are being trampled how, exactly?

reproductive rights - just say abortion, why do you have to use a sanitizing euphemism? if you are embarrassed to say it, why do you support it?

public education- we spend TONS on public education. the problem is we spend on teachers pensions, which does nothing to help kids. that and crappy parents. that’s trumps fault? or the gop?
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

pollution- us led the world in decrease of carbon emissions last year.

Emissions were on the decline long before Trump took office and while I know global warming to Trump and many is just another hoax, it's a problem that this administration and the next half dozen must take seriously. Pulling out of treaties helping reduce emissions helps our future generations how?

corporate greed - has always existed, yet right now unemployment is very low, and take home pay for folks is up thanks to tax cuts.

Stay tuned. If you think Trump pulling the US back into onto Trump island is a good thing for the long term economy, well I hope your not willing to bet your 401K on it. America first may make a catchy campaign slogan, but we need our allies and trading partners to make not only our economy work, but the global economy and well being a well.

human rights - are being trampled how, exactly?

Probably better in a separate thread.

reproductive rights - just say abortion, why do you have to use a sanitizing euphemism? if you are embarrassed to say it, why do you support it?

All for choice and even if the next justice is confirmed, I can't see Row vs Wade being overturned. I've known two women date raped in their youth, choice allowed them to have a life and a college education.

public education- we spend TONS on public education. the problem is we spend on teachers pensions, which does nothing to help kids. that and crappy parents. that’s trumps fault? or the gop?
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Way to complicated to comment on here.