cop, legal immigrant, murdered by illegal immigrant in xmas day

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

nobody said dui is an immigration issue. there is one issue, one. is it good policy to let illegals
stay, after they continue to commit crimes here? that’s the only question.

no one is saying all
immigrants are bad, or all drunks, or all cop
killers. no one.
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Nobody except POTUS
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Nobody except POTUS
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not true, and not relevant. he said
many are fine people. in the same talk where he said there are rapists and drug dealers, he said
many are fine people. why is it that your side always leaves that part out?
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

not true, and not relevant. he said
many are fine people. in the same talk where he said there are rapists and drug dealers, he said
many are fine people. why is it that your side always leaves that part out?
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Well if I hear 100:1 ratio of the bad to good references from him, it’s hard to hear the one. His MO is say it enough times and people will believe it, pick a phrase he has repeated adnausium and the pattern is clear.
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

there is one issue, one. is it good policy to let illegals stay, after they continue to commit crimes here? that’s the only question.

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No
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

No
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but somehow, there are people who disagree. it’s our inability to agree on things this obvious, which makes me sad that i don’t know what unites us anymore.

people are passing laws
forbidding local cops
with alerting ICE to illegals
who commit crime. Do we have a supremacy clause or
not? what does it mean, why was it written?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

people are passing laws
forbidding local cops
with alerting ICE to illegals
who commit crime.
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Well, this isn’t really true. Even in CA which has the broadest sanctuary law anywhere there are like 800 crimes that are exempt. The point is to not focus on the petty stuff in exchange for better cooperation with the local PD and make a safer environment for everyone.

If an illegal is caught committing a violent crime, running drugs, a serious threat to safety etc... there’s nothing stopping local PD from working with ICE.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, this isn’t really true. Even in CA which has the broadest sanctuary law anywhere there are like 800 crimes that are exempt. The point is to not focus on the petty stuff in exchange for better cooperation with the local PD and make a safer environment for everyone.

If an illegal is caught committing a violent crime, running drugs, a serious threat to safety etc... there’s nothing stopping local PD from working with ICE.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

So local police should overlook reporting an illegal if the illegal is committing a petty crime. Illegals should only be reported to ICE if they commit violent crimes. And if illegals commit no crimes, they also should not be reported to ICE.

I can see why the Dems want to eliminate ICE. The local police would incarcerate the illegals who commit violent crimes. The rest are not worth deporting just because they are illegal. If they're not committing violent crimes they have the perfect right to be here.

Not only is ICE irrelevant by that reasoning, immigration laws are also useless and unnecessary. What's all the fuss about reforming immigration laws? Just scrap them. Who needs a wall when their is no reason to keep people out. If they're violent, the local police will take care of it.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

So local police should overlook reporting an illegal if the illegal is committing a petty crime. Illegals should only be reported to ICE if they commit violent crimes. And if illegals commit no crimes, they also should not be reported to ICE.

I can see why the Dems want to eliminate ICE. The local police would incarcerate the illegals who commit violent crimes. The rest are not worth deporting just because they are illegal. If they're not committing violent crimes they have the perfect right to be here.

Not only is ICE irrelevant by that reasoning, immigration laws are also useless and unnecessary. What's all the fuss about reforming immigration laws? Just scrap them. Who needs a wall when their is no reason to keep people out. If they're violent, the local police will take care of it.

Immigration law is federal jurisdiction, I think the local police can determine what works best in their municipalities. If you have an undocumented person working and paying taxes, hell maybe they even have a few kids that are US citizens, deporting them and breaking up the family because they got a speeding ticket isn’t going to benefit the community, even worse if they can be a witness to a crime they’re afraid to report for fear of deportation.

Need comprehensive reform.
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[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, this isn’t really true. Even in CA which has the broadest sanctuary law anywhere there are like 800 crimes that are exempt. The point is to not focus on the petty stuff in exchange for better cooperation with the local PD and make a safer environment for everyone.

If an illegal is caught committing a violent crime, running drugs, a serious threat to safety etc... there’s nothing stopping local PD from working with ICE.
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Astounding!

DUI is not a serious threat to safety? People die every day from drunk drivers. What makes you think this way? Petty?
You obviously don’t get it

If law enforcement is not going to enforce law, why should we follow the laws? You and the rest of them are deplorable.

I should not have to go through life worried about some illegal alien criminal driving into me or worse because some liberal politicians decided it would be too much of an inconvenience for local PD to make a phone call. WTF planet do you live in?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

Astounding!

DUI is not a serious threat to safety? People die every day from drunk drivers. What makes you think this way? Petty?
You obviously don’t get it

If law enforcement is not going to enforce law, why should we follow the laws? You and the rest of them are deplorable.

I should not have to go through life worried about some illegal alien criminal driving into me or worse because some liberal politicians decided it would be too much of an inconvenience for local PD to make a phone call. WTF planet do you live in?
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DUI is still a misdemeanor in most cases, how many members of Congress have got them or even President? Doesn’t mean it’s not serious but please...
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[Got Stripers]

10,0000 deaths per year isn’t petty and ANYONE drinking and driving and taking life should be prosecuted, or deported; wrong is wrong.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, this isn’t really true. Even in CA which has the broadest sanctuary law anywhere there are like 800 crimes that are exempt. The point is to not focus on the petty stuff in exchange for better cooperation with the local PD and make a safer environment for everyone.

If an illegal is caught committing a violent crime, running drugs, a serious threat to safety etc... there’s nothing stopping local PD from working with ICE.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

but CA law prohibited cops from telling ICE about his two DUIs. why is that good policy? that’s the only issue here, i’m asking for the third time why it’s a good idea. what will it take for you to answer that question, as i asked it?
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[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by spence

DUI is still a misdemeanor in most cases, how many members of Congress have got them or even President? Doesn’t mean it’s not serious but please...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

if there is one, it is one too many

this response is beyond deplorable

If this country had any balls, we would deport criminals

[Slipknot]

Jim, he thinks is just a misdemeanor so thru the revolving door to the streets they go just like a regular American, no big deal.

The actual answer is there is NO justification NONE, he has no answer and neither does Pete

This is why we ended up with Trump
People are fed up

[Slipknot]

2 minutes and 25 seconds well worth listening

America, WAKE UP

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Immigration law is federal jurisdiction, I think the local police can determine what works best in their municipalities. If you have an undocumented person working and paying taxes, hell maybe they even have a few kids that are US citizens, deporting them and breaking up the family because they got a speeding ticket isn’t going to benefit the community, even worse if they can be a witness to a crime they’re afraid to report for fear of deportation.

Need comprehensive reform.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

In spite of your use of official, harmless sounding phrases like "undocumented," and meaningless ones like "Comprehensive reform" to indicate that you might consider that something is a wee bit wrong with what you consider much too harsh to call "illegal," what you say here, if you were explicit and "comprehensive," is not really different than what I said: "immigration laws are . . . useless and unnecessary. What's all the fuss about reforming immigration laws? Just scrap them. Who needs a wall when their is no reason to keep people out. If they're violent, the local police will take care of it." "If they're not committing violent crimes they have the perfect right to be here." After all, as you say, "local police can determine what works best in their municipalities."

The bread crumb you throw to the federal bureaucracy: "Immigration law is federal jurisdiction" is superfluous, irrelevant, even a contradiction to your saying " If you have an undocumented person working and paying taxes, hell maybe they even have a few kids that are US citizens, deporting them and breaking up the family because they got a speeding ticket isn’t going to benefit the community". What you said is an affirmation that they have a right to be here. That there is actually no reason to stop them from coming here.

And if it is, as you say, "even worse if they can be a witness to a crime they’re afraid to report for fear of deportation," that even more supports the idea that they have the right to be here. After all, they shouldn't, as you suggest, have to be afraid of deportation for doing the same thing that a "documented" or "legal" person would do in reporting the same crime.

So, for you, if immigration is ultimately not a question of law but of procedure, documentation (and even that is not really necessary if the "undocumented" haven't committed a violent crime) then border enforcement and immigration law are a waste of resources. If no law is broken by crossing the border without being documented, and staying here indefinitely, and being here in no way different than "legally" residing citizens with all the inherent rights and privileges, then little needs to be done to "comprehensively" reform immigration law other than scrapping most of it, if not all of it.

On the other hand, if law is broken, then penalty must follow. If we can impeach a President for misdemeanors, who among us, especially law breakers, should get a free pass?

[wdmso]

Visa Overstays Outnumber Illegal Border Crossings,

The majority of immigrants settling in the U.S. without authorization are first coming to the country legally,

how is the wall going to fix that?

Just another example of Trump's base buying into the misinformation and fear.. of brown people


Ryan would give visas to Irish workers,


why do conservatives scream states rights when it suits them? ... But dont support states rights to not to enforces federal immigration (misdemeanors ) and detentions without reimbursement ... even in mass we bring people to federal court on ICE detainers so again the lie sold by the right is again just more misinformation .. you see it in gun control... the right calls it confiscation or any other argument on any topic the rights core element is fear ..

[Jim in CT]

Spence, you said local
police can determine what works best in their
municipalities. but the
local police aren’t allowed to exercise that judgment, because
liberal politicians pass laws to take that ability away from them. they cannot contact ICE even if they wanted to.
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[jc10]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Point I was making was, DUI is a national issue, not an illegal immigration issue. Yesterday coming off cape from playing golf in Hyannis a guy maybe in his 50's almost side swipes me as he passed me and after watching him almost go off the road three times, I called 911 and bourne police then patched me through to the state police. This guy was hammered and an accident just waiting to happen and I backed way off as he went up on the bridge and he came within an inch from pounding into the tall curb, which likely would have shot his small SUV right back across into oncoming traffic. Our legal system just isn't doing the job to keep these repeat offenders off our roads and most are US citizens not illegal immigrants. Again, I'm all for reporting criminals to ICE if illegal, you want to be a US citizen, then you better have respect for our laws. If not send them home.

Well said about reporting to ICE. I can't believe I live in a country in which the mayor of a major city - Oakland - can get away with doing just the opposite .... "Hey you illegals, especially those of you who are criminals, look out. ICE is coming". Why isn't she in jail?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

If you have an undocumented person working and paying taxes, hell maybe they even have a few kids that are US citizens, deporting them and breaking up the family because they got a speeding ticket isn’t going to benefit the community, Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Let me tell you, when you have to distort the facts to this degree to avoid making your position look stupid, maybe it's time to re-think your position. You make it sound like this guy was Ward Cleaver who happened to get caught going 56mph in a 55mph zone by a racist cop.

Spence, for the FOURTH TIME NOW, would you oppose a law which said illegals get deported if they have multiple DUIs?

We probably agree that illegals who commit violent felonies get deported. And I presume we agree that illegals (especially the fictional one you described here, who is working to support a family) who gets caught speeding, I'm OK with not automatically deporting these people.

This guy was not even close to what you described, which makes me curious why you went to a hypothetical that bears zero resemblance to what we are discussing here. I mean, I know exactly why you did it, but I wonder why you'd say you did it?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Visa Overstays Outnumber Illegal Border Crossings,

The majority of immigrants settling in the U.S. without authorization are first coming to the country legally,

how is the wall going to fix that?

Just another example of Trump's base buying into the misinformation and fear.. of brown people


Ryan would give visas to Irish workers,


why do conservatives scream states rights when it suits them? ... But dont support states rights to not to enforces federal immigration (misdemeanors ) and detentions without reimbursement ... even in mass we bring people to federal court on ICE detainers so again the lie sold by the right is again just more misinformation .. you see it in gun control... the right calls it confiscation or any other argument on any topic the rights core element is fear ..

"The majority of immigrants settling in the U.S. without authorization are first coming to the country legally,

how is the wall going to fix that?"

So unless the wall can fix every aspect of immigration, as well as cure cancer, it's not worth building?

People still escape from prison despite the existence of prison guards, so should we do away with prison guards (see what I did there? I used your "logic").

No ne said the wall was perfect, and that it would reduce illegal immigration to zero. What people are saying (thoughtful, sane people that is),is that it will help. I keep seeing that between 1,000 and 3,000 people a day cross the border. Some of them will have the ability to bypass a wall. Some will not. The wall will help. It won't reduce the number of people crossing illegally to zero, but it will reduce it from where it is today.

It's obvious common sense. You really disagree with that?

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"The majority of immigrants settling in the U.S. without authorization are first coming to the country legally,

how is the wall going to fix that?"

So unless the wall can fix every aspect of immigration, as well as cure cancer, it's not worth building?

People still escape from prison despite the existence of prison guards, so should we do away with prison guards (see what I did there? I used your "logic").

No ne said the wall was perfect, and that it would reduce illegal immigration to zero. What people are saying (thoughtful, sane people that is),is that it will help. I keep seeing that between 1,000 and 3,000 people a day cross the border. Some of them will have the ability to bypass a wall. Some will not. The wall will help. It won't reduce the number of people crossing illegally to zero, but it will reduce it from where it is today.

It's obvious common sense. You really disagree with that?

There is no wall. There won’t be a wall. Read the news
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

There is no wall. There won’t be a wall. Read the news
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I never said there would be. I said if there was a wall, it would reduce, but not eliminate, illegal immigration. And I said that just because an idea isn't perfect and doesn't solve every problem in the world and make us all immortal, doesn't mean it's not a good idea.

When courts legalize gay marriage, it didn't solve all problems that gays face. I still think it was the right thing to do.

The liberal arguments here, are laughably absurd. Read them, and think honestly about them for a minute. Because the wall won't reduce illegal immigration to zero, that means its not a good idea? we have laws against murder, but people still get murdered. So should we do away with those laws?

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

When courts legalize gay marriage, it didn't solve all problems that gays face. I still think it was the right thing to do.

The only problems gays face are dealing with #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s who refuse to accept them.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

The only problems gays face are dealing with #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s who refuse to accept them.
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My point was, no idea is perfect or flawless or impossible to weasel around. So you can't shoot down the wall, by saying that some people will be able to go over or under it.

You shut your doors at night? If so, why? A master thief can still get in if he really wants to, right? Shutting your door doesn't guarantee that an intruder won't get in. But you do it anyway, and you'd be stupid not to do it.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

My point was, no idea is perfect or flawless or impossible to weasel around. So you can't shoot down the wall, by saying that some people will be able to go over or under it.

You shut your doors at night? If so, why? A master thief can still get in if he really wants to, right? Shutting your door doesn't guarantee that an intruder won't get in. But you do it anyway, and you'd be stupid not to do it.

I don’t live my life in fear. You should consider that path. Happiness and love sets you free.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I don’t live my life in fear. You should consider that path. Happiness and love sets you free.
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Do you shut your door and at night, yes or no?

Love it when you ask the simplest question in the world, and get a dodge for an answer...

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I don’t live my life in fear. You should consider that path. Happiness and love sets you free.
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The 60's called, they want their domestic policy back.
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[Nebe]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

The 60's called, they want their domestic policy back.
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🙃
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

but CA law prohibited cops from telling ICE about his two DUIs. why is that good policy? that’s the only issue here, i’m asking for the third time why it’s a good idea. what will it take for you to answer that question, as i asked it?
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We know he was arrested twice for DUI but I don’t know if he was ever convicted. If the DUIs didn’t have aggravating factors I’m not sure that just because he’s illegal makes much of a difference. If he got a third he could have faced harsher charges that didn’t have any protection.

You have to draw a line somewhere. DUI is probably on the upper end.
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