This explains a lot

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Do you have a chart to show that it is not significantly true overall bc every chart I have seen seems to indicate that the historically right leaning states all receive more back then they pay to the govern. There also seems to be a correlation between educational achievement also.

I was referring to the chart that JohnR posted.

As far as the states receiving more back than they pay, I consider that a good thing. If all the states did that, the federal government might be forced to cut back on its spending. And maybe the fed would then not need to tax us as much and more money would stay in the states so they wouldn't have to rely on the federal government dole.

But to the point before you tried to turn this into a political arguement,

This is the political forum. And like so much of what affects our civic life in America now, politics is a, or the, key factor. And the Pete F post to which I responded was specifically political. Your stuff about "right leaning" states getting back more than they pay is political.

it is sad people don't know more about our country. Perhaps bc many states down have civics classes anymore.

As I said in the first response to the thread "It's not an accident that citizenship is not an important subject in our Progressive educational institutions."

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

But to the point before you tried to turn this into a political arguement,



Originally Posted by detbuch

This is the political forum

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by detbuch

As I said in the first response to the thread "It's not an accident that citizenship is not an important subject in our Progressive educational institutions."

Most people don't try to turn everything into Progress vs Cons. like you did. I'm guessing Pete's post was in reaction to your post commenting on progressive educational instituitions and pointing out that cons. states seem to score low.

If citizenship wasn't important in the progressive educational institutions what do you attribute to the low scoring conservative states? Just not as smart or is it bc they frequently spend less per student on education?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

If citizenship wasn't important in the progressive educational institutions what do you attribute to the low scoring conservative states?

the tests are harder

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

the tests are harder

is that why they have lower educational achievement and lower average earnings? Might need to pay their teachers more?????

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

is that why they have lower educational achievement and lower average earnings?

I heard they are happier.....

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

is that why they have lower educational achievement and lower average earnings? Might need to pay their teachers more?????

Yes, there's all kinds of evidence to suggest that teacher pay is coordinated with student performance!! That's why private schools, where teachers are paid with dirt, score so poorly.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Yes, there's all kinds of evidence to suggest that teacher pay is coordinated with student performance!! That's why private schools, where teachers are paid with dirt, score so poorly.

So as an actuary you would have no problem comparing public schools which have to take every student regardless of ability to private schools where you have the ability to test and pick and choose which students you want to accept?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So as an actuary you would have no problem comparing public schools which have to take every student regardless of ability to private schools where you have the ability to test and pick and choose which students you want to accept?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

i agree it’s not an apples to apples comparison. but it shows that teacher compensation has
little to do with it.

how about if we spent the money on programs that encourage good parenting, making public schools look more like
private schools?

and if you look at test scores in public schools
by state and overlay that with teacher compensation, you won’t see
much correlation. if there was a correlation, i’d be on board with huge compensation.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Most people don't try to turn everything into Progress vs Cons. like you did.

I am not "most people". Being "most people" may be a goal you aspire to. I don't. I would normally apologize if I undeservedly offended you. But if that offends you, or irks you, I won't apologize for who I am.

Progressive vs Conservative is an essential feature of American politics, so would be totally appropriate in a political forum.

I'm guessing Pete's post was in reaction to your post commenting on progressive educational instituitions and pointing out that cons. states seem to score low.

If citizenship wasn't important in the progressive educational institutions what do you attribute to the low scoring conservative states? Just not as smart or is it bc they frequently spend less per student on education?

The public educational institutions in this country have intentionally been made Progressive in their social and political pedagogy. If not all, the vast majority with qualifying teacher certificates are educated in our Progressive colleges and Universities. This applies even in "conservative" states. Our Public schools, in all states, are progressive institutions. It would be interesting to have a chart like the one in this thread that surveyed private schools. I wouldn't be surprised if Christian school students scored higher.

In the survey that John posted all states except Vermont scored below 50%. And Vermont was only at 53%. In the next level below that "Conservative" states had higher scores than "Progressive" ones. As a whole, even including Vermont, that is pitiful. Spending more money on education evidently doesn't affect the students' knowledge of American civics and history. That's not because the students are stupid. It's because they are not being taught what Progressive pedagogues think is either unimportant or they are being taught Progressive versions which are antithetical to the historical principles of this country.