if trump wins in november, here’s why

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I watched the CNN clip and briefly felt some empathy for those mocked and insulted (including some of my family). But then I remembered: kids in cages,

Did you remember, who constructed the cages and first used them to house children who were separated from their families?

You broke your brain.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I watched the CNN clip and briefly felt some empathy for those mocked and insulted (including some of my family). But then I remembered: kids in cages, poisoned environment, the Middle East, Bully-in-Chief, election cheat, and Russian tool. Have at 'em, Rick Wilson. Respect is earned.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Did you remember, who constructed the cages and first used them to house children who were separated from their families?

You broke your brain.

As usual, you only remember the party line.

Only one President has ever implemented a zero tolerance policy, and he is still doing it.

President Donald Trump signed an executive order last June ostensibly ending zero tolerance and family separations at the border and promising to reunite almost 3,000 children with their parents. Yet relying largely on a technical exception, at least 700 more families have been separated since then, and at least five children have died.

In many cases, the separations since then have continued under the guise of fitting into a narrow exception to the order — that the parent poses a danger to the child, or has a serious criminal record or gang affiliation. (The exception can also be invoked if the parent is sick, or when an aunt, uncle or sibling is accompanying the child.)

“The government is trying to drive a truck through what was supposed to be a very narrow exception,” notes Lee Gelernt of the American Civil Liberties Union, who believes that the number of separated families will be more than 1,000 by the end of this summer.

Advocates, however, argue that many children are being separated from their parents for minor crimes or questionable, unverified accusations of gang affiliation, neither of which would be allowed to occur to American parents under U.S. law. And so despite the end of the zero tolerance policy, children have continued to be separated from parents only charged with the so-called crime of entering the country illegally, according to the government’s own data released to the Houston Chronicle.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

As usual, you only remember the party line.

Only one President has ever implemented a zero tolerance policy, and he is still doing it.

President Donald Trump signed an executive order last June ostensibly ending zero tolerance and family separations at the border and promising to reunite almost 3,000 children with their parents. Yet relying largely on a technical exception, at least 700 more families have been separated since then, and at least five children have died.

In many cases, the separations since then have continued under the guise of fitting into a narrow exception to the order — that the parent poses a danger to the child, or has a serious criminal record or gang affiliation. (The exception can also be invoked if the parent is sick, or when an aunt, uncle or sibling is accompanying the child.)

“The government is trying to drive a truck through what was supposed to be a very narrow exception,” notes Lee Gelernt of the American Civil Liberties Union, who believes that the number of separated families will be more than 1,000 by the end of this summer.

Advocates, however, argue that many children are being separated from their parents for minor crimes or questionable, unverified accusations of gang affiliation, neither of which would be allowed to occur to American parents under U.S. law. And so despite the end of the zero tolerance policy, children have continued to be separated from parents only charged with the so-called crime of entering the country illegally, according to the government’s own data released to the Houston Chronicle.

No no no, you said kids in cages was bad.

Now, you're saying that putting a certain number of kids in cages is OK, but once you exceed that number in cages, it's immoral. And by a stunning coincidence, the number that Obama put in cages, was below the threshold for what's acceptable to you.

Pete, we get it.

liberal=good
conservative=bad

We get it, OK?

It's a joke. Talking to you and Wayne and Spence, is an absolute joke.

Obama's former director of ICE, who has become a conservative hero lately, testified before Congress that the law essentially forces ICE to do what they're doing. THis man testified that he also agrees we need changes, but Congress needs to change the law, rather than asking ICE not to follow the law. When he testified to this, NONE of the democrats on the committee said he was wrong. I have no idea if he's right or wrong, but I haven't heard anyone on the left say he's wrong.

But let's be honest. Trump did not begin the policy of separating kids from families and outing them in cages. Obama did. AND NOBODY GAVE A DAMN. And NOBODY buys your argument that it's OK to put as many kids in cages as Obama did, but wrong when you do it as often as Trump did it. If it's wrong for any one child, it's wrong for all.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

No no no, you said kids in cages was bad.

Now, you're saying that putting a certain number of kids in cages is OK, but once you exceed that number in cages, it's immoral. And by a stunning coincidence, the number that Obama put in cages, was below the threshold for what's acceptable to you.

Pete, we get it.

liberal=good
conservative=bad

We get it, OK?

It's a joke. Talking to you and Wayne and Spence, is an absolute joke.

Obama's former director of ICE, who has become a conservative hero lately, testified before Congress that the law essentially forces ICE to do what they're doing. THis man testified that he also agrees we need changes, but Congress needs to change the law, rather than asking ICE not to follow the law. When he testified to this, NONE of the democrats on the committee said he was wrong. I have no idea if he's right or wrong, but I haven't heard anyone on the left say he's wrong.

But let's be honest. Trump did not begin the policy of separating kids from families and outing them in cages. Obama did. AND NOBODY GAVE A DAMN. And NOBODY buys your argument that it's OK to put as many kids in cages as Obama did, but wrong when you do it as often as Trump did it. If it's wrong for any one child, it's wrong for all.

You're not being honest.

Neither Bush or Obama made it policy to seperate ALL children from their parents, Floridaman did.

As the chief administrator you do get to make some policy choices, some people make wise ones, others abuse the weak.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You're not being honest.

Neither Bush or Obama made it policy to seperate ALL children from their parents, Floridaman did.

As the chief administrator you do get to make some policy choices, some people make wise ones, others abuse the weak.

can you be clear? it was ok when obama did it, but immoral for
trump to expand on it. That’s your position?

Somehow it was less traumatic for the kids obama caged, than it was for the ones Trump did?

Or are you saying that the kids Ibama caged, deserves it somehow?

Why was it ok when obama
did it, but bad when Trump did it? please be specific.

And if the ICE official has the authority to unilaterally decide to do things differently, it’s interesting that none of the democrats on the committee said that to him, yet you know it to be true.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

can you be clear? it was ok when obama did it, but immoral for
trump to expand on it. That’s your position?

Somehow it was less traumatic for the kids obama caged, than it was for the ones Trump did?

Or are you saying that the kids Ibama caged, deserves it somehow?

Why was it ok when obama
did it, but bad when Trump did it? please be specific.

And if the ICE official has the authority to unilaterally decide to do things differently, it’s interesting that none of the democrats on the committee said that to him, yet you know it to be true.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The ICE official did not set policy, he carried it out.

If you want to claim that laws have to be enforced, make sure and tell the officer that the next time you get stopped for speeding. He has no choice but to give you a ticket! And get every mile over the limit.

The policy of the Floridaman maladministration was and seems to still be to separate all children from their parents.

The Bush and Obama administrations made the conscious choice to separate as few as possible. In some cases this needs to happen, but not the maximum possible. You forget the detail that border traffic was much higher in those years, till it was reduced by half under Obama, more than double what it was when Floridaman took office.
That is one thing Floridaman has not been able to continue, it is now back up to where it was.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The ICE official did not set policy, he carried it out.

If you want to claim that laws have to be enforced, make sure and tell the officer that the next time you get stopped for speeding. He has no choice but to give you a ticket! And get every mile over the limit.

The policy of the Floridaman maladministration was and seems to still be to separate all children from their parents.

The Bush and Obama administrations made the conscious choice to separate as few as possible. In some cases this needs to happen, but not the maximum possible. You forget the detail that border traffic was much higher in those years, till it was reduced by half under Obama, more than double what it was when Floridaman took office.
That is one thing Floridaman has not been able to continue, it is now back up to where it was.

Pete, you dodged on the issue of
kids in cages. How come?

When i get a warning for speeding, that’s not the officer disregarding the law. if he ignored my speeding, that’s disregarding the law. cops very explicitly, are allowed to use their judgment in determining the punishment for
my breaking the law. A warning is a punishment.

You’re really, really having a bad day. Go read my post about Feinstein ( Feinstein!!!) leaning towards acquittal.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device