President Biden says that 3,500,000,000,000 equals 0.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Jim is now selling the lie that the Covid spike is cause by illegals classic. "

Again, you're hearing voices. I never said "the" spike is caused by illegals. There's only one reason why people respond to something not even close to what one says, it's because you know you can't respond to what I'm actually saying.

Here's what I said:

Democrats claim to be concerned about minimizing covid, yet they say it's not a problem that 150,000 illegals cross each month, when almost 30,000 of those may have covid.

If democrats refuse to concede that 30,000 covid-positive people coming across monthly isn't any cause for concern, then I don't see how you can claim to take covid seriously.

That's what I said. See if you can avoid responding with "Jim said we should return to slavery...".

Try to respond to what I actually said. Not to what the voices in your head are telling you I said.

"all the hospitals are filled with nonvaccinated people not immigrants "

I didn't say they're filling the hospitals. I said thousands cross daily, and the data suggests that almost 1 in 5 have covid. That's not a potential problem?

"A total of 11,445 refugees were allowed into the United States during the budget year that ended on Thursday, 2021 "

I said illegal migrants, not legal refugees. No clue why the number of refugees matters at all.

Here, those right-wing nuts at the Washington Post say that in July, the Border Patrol had encounters with 200,000 illegals in the month. That's just the count of the ones Border Patrol came across - 200,000 in a month.

The data shows that 1 in 5 have covid.

No reason for ANY concern with those numbers?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...5f2_story.html

"Jim you like most other spoon fed conservatives think apprehension equals entry to the United States "

OK, How many do you suppose are entering the US per month?

"U.S. border arrests top 1 million in fiscal year 2021"

Are you saying we arrest those people, without them entering the United States? How do we do that?

In my ignorance, I though the arrest and processing took place within the United States.

I'm not saying every one of them gets to stay here forever. But all of them are here for some time, some are here for quite awhile, some are here for years.

Jim why even mention migrants and Covid at all in the same sentence.. unless it’s to blame and deflect from actual happening.. in the US with Covid like bring up Warren ..

Only conservatives are trying to tie migrants to Covid …no one saying they don’t have Covid . They just are not the reason for the spike .. so how did these migrants get to Idaho
With their Covid issues

Here are some headlines

No evidence migrants at border significantly spreading virus

This week, one Republican leader after another rushed to blame the spread of the virus, not on the unvaccinated but on immigrants.


Some Republicans Blame Migrants For COVID-19 Surges. Doctors Say They're Scapegoating

They're "allowing free pass into the United States of people with a high probability of COVID, and then spreading that COVID in our communities," Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said in an interview last month on Fox News.

"I can tell you, whatever variants are around the world, they're coming across that southern border," Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said at a press conference last week.

You really need to pay more attention to what these so call Republicans leaders are actually saying

Just look at Covid funds

All Republicans in Congress voted against the $1.9 trillion relief bill signed by President Joe Biden last month – but that hasn’t stopped several of them from publicly celebrating funding to their districts made possible by its passage.

Alabama GOP governor signs bills to use Covid-19 relief funds to build prisons into law

Gov. Brian Kemp announced $1,000 bonuses for first responders paid for with the relief money. In Wyoming, a Republican legislative leader suggested the money could be used to pay the federal fines of businesses that defy Biden's vaccine mandate.

In Galveston County, Texas, Republican county commissioners approved a plan to spend $6.6 million of its total $27 million in coronavirus relief money for security roughly 350 miles (560 kilometers) away on the U.S.-Mexico border. They say the money will protect residents from COVID-19 and other dangers brought by people entering the United States

Arizona to use COVID money for anti-mask grants,


These actions just show how Republicans are unable and unwilling to do anything for Americans But would rather pull stunts for their base saying look we’re owing the libs . What a bunch of intellectually dishonest people these Trump Republicans have become
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim why even mention migrants and Covid at all in the same sentence.. unless it’s to blame and deflect from actual happening.. in the US with Covid like bring up Warren ..

Only conservatives are trying to tie migrants to Covid …no one saying they don’t have Covid . They just are not the reason for the spike .. so how did these migrants get to Idaho
With their Covid issues

No evidence migrants at border significantly spreading virus

This week, one Republican leader after another rushed to blame the spread of the virus, not on the unvaccinated but on immigrants.


Some Republicans Blame Migrants For COVID-19 Surges. Doctors Say They're Scapegoating

They're "allowing free pass into the United States of people with a high probability of COVID, and then spreading that COVID in our communities," Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said in an interview last month on Fox News.

"I can tell you, whatever variants are around the world, they're coming across that southern border," Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said at a press conference last week.

You really need to pay more attention to what these so call Republicans leaders are actually saying

Just look at Covid funds

All Republicans in Congress voted against the $1.9 trillion relief bill signed by President Joe Biden last month – but that hasn’t stopped several of them from publicly celebrating funding to their districts made possible by its passage.

Alabama GOP governor signs bills to use Covid-19 relief funds to build prisons into law

Gov. Brian Kemp announced $1,000 bonuses for first responders paid for with the relief money. In Wyoming, a Republican legislative leader suggested the money could be used to pay the federal fines of businesses that defy Biden's vaccine mandate.

In Galveston County, Texas, Republican county commissioners approved a plan to spend $6.6 million of its total $27 million in coronavirus relief money for security roughly 350 miles (560 kilometers) away on the U.S.-Mexico border. They say the money will protect residents from COVID-19 and other dangers brought by people entering the United States

Arizona to use COVID money for anti-mask grants,


These actions just show how Republicans are unable and unwilling to do anything for Americans But would rather pull stunts for their base saying look we’re owing the libs . What a bunch of intellectually dishonest these Trump Republicans have become
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"Jim why even mention migrants and Covid at all in the same sentence."

Because 200,000 of them were encountered on our side of the border, and one result showed that 1 in 5 had covid. That's 40,000 covid-positive migrants coming across in a month, and that's just the ones that BP encountered. Who knows how many more there are.

I answered your question. Can you answer mine? Why do you think it' snot even worth mentioning, that our open borders are essentially importing as many as 40,000 covid-positive people in a month? Why are you so intent on sweeping that under the rug?

"unless it’s to blame and deflect from actual happening.. in the US with Covid"

We can't talk about two things at once? Maybe you can't, most of us can. I'm not deflecting anything. There are multiple facets to this, I go where the truth (not where CNN) takes me.

"Only conservatives are trying to tie migrants to Covid"

SO you deny that tens of thousands of covid-positive migrants are likely coming across the southern border?

Wayne, when I brought this up, you immediately pivoted to the insignificantly low number of migrants who were granted asylum. You completely ignored the much, much larger number of illegal migrants. Then you claimed the illegals are never in the USA. So it appears to us that youre the one who is lying and deflecting.

You say you want to address covid, but you won't admit any issue with 40,000 covid-positive people crossing in a single month, in addition to god-knows-how-many others that were never encountered by BPS. We all know they don't catch all of them.

So one of two things is happening. Either you don't think that importing 40,000 sick people a month is worthy of discussing, or you refuse to discuss it because the underlying issue (open border) is a losing issue for your political agenda.

I have seen just about every conservatives here, criticize conservatives a few times. None of the liberals here except Rockhound, are capable of it. Never.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Jim why even mention migrants and Covid at all in the same sentence."

Because 200,000 of them were encountered on our side of the border, and one result showed that 1 in 5 had covid. That's 40,000 covid-positive migrants coming across in a month, and that's just the ones that BP encountered. Who knows how many more there are.

I answered your question. Can you answer mine? Why do you think it' snot even worth mentioning, that our open borders are essentially importing as many as 40,000 covid-positive people in a month? Why are you so intent on sweeping that under the rug?

"unless it’s to blame and deflect from actual happening.. in the US with Covid"

We can't talk about two things at once? Maybe you can't, most of us can. I'm not deflecting anything. There are multiple facets to this, I go where the truth (not where CNN) takes me.

"Only conservatives are trying to tie migrants to Covid"

SO you deny that tens of thousands of covid-positive migrants are likely coming across the southern border?

Wayne, when I brought this up, you immediately pivoted to the insignificantly low number of migrants who were granted asylum. You completely ignored the much, much larger number of illegal migrants. Then you claimed the illegals are never in the USA. So it appears to us that youre the one who is lying and deflecting.

You say you want to address covid, but you won't admit any issue with 40,000 covid-positive people crossing in a single month, in addition to god-knows-how-many others that were never encountered by BPS. We all know they don't catch all of them.

So one of two things is happening. Either you don't think that importing 40,000 sick people a month is worthy of discussing, or you refuse to discuss it because the underlying issue (open border) is a losing issue for your political agenda.

I have seen just about every conservatives here, criticize conservatives a few times. None of the liberals here except Rockhound, are capable of it. Never.

you still have no understand of how encounters do not equal entrance

you assume somehow 40,000 sick people a month are traveling around the US spreading Covid .. the open border lie runs deep in your mind

We have the same border we had under Trump nothing has changed people arrive and are returned stop being so obtuse ..

the Biden administration keeps Trump-era rule of turning away migrants during pandemic..., but seem you missed that memo
another example

https://www.statesman.com/

the vast majority of migrants encountered by Border Patrol are sent back to Mexico under Title 42 — a Trump-era policy designed to curb COVID-19 spread that the Biden administration has left in place.


.. And how would we know 1 in 5 have covid ? because the last republican lie was they weren't being tested..


the U.S. Department of Homeland Security told PolitiFact that it works with state authorities, local authorities and non-governmental organizations to ensure that “100% of noncitizens” are tested for COVID-19 "at some point during their immigration journey." The agency also has told PolitiFact that a negative coronavirus test is required by the federal government before entry to the U.S.


Jim no one on the left or middle have said no migrants don't have covid we just dont Blame them like republicans have done to avoid whos responsible for the explosion of Covid 19 in their base of support .. And we can talk about 2 things at once but once again these 2 things are not remotely the same

its Just republicans promoting fear of the other


Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick went on Fox News Thursday night to address the issue, further stoking political flames.

“The revolution has begun, a silent revolution by the Democrat Party and Joe Biden to take over this country," said Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, (R) Texas. "We need every state, every red state because the blue ones won't do it, to send and invoke Article four, section four, of the constitution, to tell the president that we are being invaded.”

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

We have the same border we had under Trump nothing has changed people arrive and are returned stop being so obtuse ..

.”

You're saying under Trump, we had 200,000 encounters a month? The number of people crossing illegally, hasn't skyrocketed under Biden, is that what you're saying?

"people arrive and are returned"

What's the process for returning these people? Where do they go, and how long are they there? My understanding is that many of them are let go in the US, after promising to show up to a future court date. Is that wrong? How are they processed?

I'm not saying they spend years traveling the country, kissing everyone they see to spread covid. But you seem to be saying they are all immediately returned in a way that doesn't expose Americans to their covid, and I'm sure that's not true either.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim why even mention migrants and Covid at all in the same sentence.. unless it’s to blame and deflect from actual happening.. in the US with Covid like bring up Warren ..

Only conservatives are trying to tie migrants to Covid …no one saying they don’t have Covid . They just are not the reason for the spike .. so how did these migrants get to Idaho
With their Covid issues

Here are some headlines

No evidence migrants at border significantly spreading virus

This week, one Republican leader after another rushed to blame the spread of the virus, not on the unvaccinated but on immigrants.


Some Republicans Blame Migrants For COVID-19 Surges. Doctors Say They're Scapegoating

They're "allowing free pass into the United States of people with a high probability of COVID, and then spreading that COVID in our communities," Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said in an interview last month on Fox News.

"I can tell you, whatever variants are around the world, they're coming across that southern border," Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said at a press conference last week.

You really need to pay more attention to what these so call Republicans leaders are actually saying

Just look at Covid funds

All Republicans in Congress voted against the $1.9 trillion relief bill signed by President Joe Biden last month – but that hasn’t stopped several of them from publicly celebrating funding to their districts made possible by its passage.

Alabama GOP governor signs bills to use Covid-19 relief funds to build prisons into law

Gov. Brian Kemp announced $1,000 bonuses for first responders paid for with the relief money. In Wyoming, a Republican legislative leader suggested the money could be used to pay the federal fines of businesses that defy Biden's vaccine mandate.

In Galveston County, Texas, Republican county commissioners approved a plan to spend $6.6 million of its total $27 million in coronavirus relief money for security roughly 350 miles (560 kilometers) away on the U.S.-Mexico border. They say the money will protect residents from COVID-19 and other dangers brought by people entering the United States

Arizona to use COVID money for anti-mask grants,


These actions just show how Republicans are unable and unwilling to do anything for Americans But would rather pull stunts for their base saying look we’re owing the libs . What a bunch of intellectually dishonest people these Trump Republicans have become
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"unless it’s to blame and deflect from actual happening.. in the US with Covid like bring up Warren ."

Spence brought up Warren, not me. It was OK with you when he brought her up, but a character flaw when I respond? How does that make sense?

Again, your entire existence on this forum is democrat=good, republican= bad. we get it, you don't need to keep saying it in different ways.

"These actions just show how Republicans are unable and unwilling to do anything for Americans"

Here's a study in the New York Times (not known to be Republican-friendly) showing clearly, that conservatives give more money and time to charity, than liberals.

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/o...21kristof.html

If Republicans don't do anything for Americans, explain the Gallup poll that showed a record-number of Americans claimed to be better off after 4 years of Trump, than after 4 years of any president in the history of that poll?

Yeah, John McCain, Dan Crenshaw, Tom Cotton, what have they ever done for anybody?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Here's a study in the New York Times (not known to be Republican-friendly) showing clearly, that conservatives give more money and time to charity, than liberals.

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/o...21kristof.html

An Op-Ed from anyone is not evidence.
Here's another one from the same time.

November 3, 2018; New York Times

The political differences between Republicans and Democrats don’t play out solely at the ballot box; they also predict how likely people are to donate to charity. This finding from a newly published research project reflects a key difference, one tied to political affiliation, about how our nation should take on critical social issues like homelessness, poverty, and health care. The data also suggest that in times of political strife, both parties’ supporters pull back, making problem-solving harder.

Using voting and IRS data for the residents of 3,000 counties across the nation, the four-professor research team found, according to the New York Times, that counties which are “overwhelmingly Republican” report higher charitable contributions than Democratic-dominated counties, although “giving in blue counties is often bolstered by a combination of charitable donations and higher taxes. But as red or blue counties become more politically competitive, charitable giving tends to fall.” The full study was recently published in the Nonprofit and Voluntary Sector Quarterly.

One could conclude this shows the Republican party is, despite the conventional wisdom, the party that cares about those in need and puts its money where its mouth is. But the true picture is more complex, reflecting at best a real difference between the parties in the best way to approach the challenge of human need. Because the range of organizations and activities that are supported by tax deductible giving is very wide, it is not clear how these funds are actually used or what motives they reflect.

Republicans do give more, but where that money ends up is not yet clear. One of the study’s authors, Rebecca Nesbit, associate professor of public administration and policy at the University of Georgia, told the New York Times that Republicans prefer to “provide for the collective good through private institutions. But we don’t know what type of institutions they’re giving to.” It also wasn’t obvious “whether donors were being purely generous or whether they would also benefit from their donation. This relationship is called consumption philanthropy, in which people give to a religious organization or a school from which they will derive a benefit in the form of, say, a better religious education program or a new gymnasium.” Giving to a food bank or a homeless shelter has a very different outcome than does giving to a private school.

While red counties may be more philanthropic, tax rates are higher in blue counties, reflecting stronger support for collective action and for a social safety net of services and organizations. “The county you live in and the political ideology of that county affects the tax burden of the community,” Dr. Nesbit said. “That in turn has an effect on charitable contributions. If you leave tax burden out of the equation, you’re not getting the full story.”

Importantly, the study did not find that in Republican counties, private funds replaced public funds so that social services were equally supported.

Those in favor of lower taxes have argued that individuals are more capable than the government of allocating money to important causes, including people in need of assistance. But the study found that was not true. Donations do not match government assistance, and without tax money, social services are not funded as robustly.

“The evidence shows that private philanthropy can’t compensate for the loss of government provision,” Dr. Nesbit said. “It’s not equal. What government can put into these things is so much more than what we see through private philanthropy.”

Most concerning in this moment of high political strife is the finding that everyone pulls back in areas where political division is high: “When counties are split evenly between the political parties, both donations and the tax burden go down. Or in the study’s terms: Political competition decreases giving.” This does not bode well for organizations whose work is holding up a part of the social safety net, nor for the people they serve.

As we see very graphically on a national level, split electorates and the split governments they elect have difficulty enacting polices and laws to support democratic approaches to collective action. The publicly funded portion of the safety net weakens. If Republicans, who may be more individually ready than their Democratic neighbors, do not make growing charitable donations for these same purposes, philanthropy will not provide the solution, either.—Marty Levine

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

An Op-Ed from anyone is not evidence.

I guess you didn't bother to read my post. The op-ed discussed a statistical study. You can ignore every word of the columnist and focus on the data in the study. I encourage you to do that. You won't like the results.

The author of the study, Arthur Brooks, expected to conclude that liberals are more generous (after all, CNN says so). But he found the opposite (not that liberals aren't generous by the way, but conservatives were slightly more so). Brooks concluded, as a rational person might expect, that the role that religion plays on the two sides (important to the right, mocked by the left) is a main incentive for conservatives to dig a little deeper.

Despite what the left says, there's actually more to religion than bombing abortion clinics. Christianity has some pretty good qualities. You won't hear that on any mainstream news though, which is why you aren't aware of it.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I guess you didn't bother to read my post. The op-ed discussed a statistical study. You can ignore every word of the columnist and focus on the data in the study. I encourage you to do that. You won't like the results.

The author of the study, Arthur Brooks, expected to conclude that liberals are more generous (after all, CNN says so). But he found the opposite (not that liberals aren't generous by the way, but conservatives were slightly more so). Brooks concluded, as a rational person might expect, that the role that religion plays on the two sides (important to the right, mocked by the left) is a main incentive for conservatives to dig a little deeper.

Despite what the left says, there's actually more to religion than bombing abortion clinics. Christianity has some pretty good qualities. You won't hear that on any mainstream news though, which is why you aren't aware of it.

Molesting children is spectacular

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Molesting children is spectacular

Yes, that's exactly what I've said, many times.

You can't just admit what has been proven to be true, unless it supports liberalism.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I guess you didn't bother to read my post. The op-ed discussed a statistical study. You can ignore every word of the columnist and focus on the data in the study. I encourage you to do that. You won't like the results.

The author of the study, Arthur Brooks, expected to conclude that liberals are more generous (after all, CNN says so). But he found the opposite (not that liberals aren't generous by the way, but conservatives were slightly more so). Brooks concluded, as a rational person might expect, that the role that religion plays on the two sides (important to the right, mocked by the left) is a main incentive for conservatives to dig a little deeper.

Despite what the left says, there's actually more to religion than bombing abortion clinics. Christianity has some pretty good qualities. You won't hear that on any mainstream news though, which is why you aren't aware of it.

I read your post and the Op-Ed it referred to, nowhere did it link to a study, only inferred information that the author gave his opinion on.
If as you claim you have read that study perhaps you can link it.

By the way it's behind a paywall.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I read your post and the Op-Ed it referred to, nowhere did it link to a study, only inferred information that the author gave his opinion on.
If as you claim you have read that study perhaps you can link it.

By the way it's behind a paywall.

The study is called "Who Really Cares", done by Arthur Brooks, who has a lot of experience in public policy.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

The study is called "Who Really Cares", done by Arthur Brooks, who has a lot of experience in public policy.

It's not a study, it's a book written by someone with an opinion.

But now I see where you get your rhetoric.

Brooks is a prototypical member of the modern Republican elite. His ideology is rooted centrally in the class war, a struggle between what he calls “the makers” and “the takers.” He inhabits an imaginary world in which the former are being hounded nearly to extinction by the latter. “At some point,” he sorrowfully predicts, “the rich (as defined by the 30 percent) will pay all the income taxes in America. For the 30 percent coalition, this is fair and just.”

Brooks’s portrait of a world in which the rich are ruthlessly exploited in the name of absolute equality is long on hysterical rhetoric and very short on data. What little data Brooks presents is almost invariably wrong. “In America,” he declares, “the top 5 percent of earners bring in 37 percent of the income but pay 60 percent of the taxes.” This is false. The top 5 percent of income earners pay 38.5 percent of all taxes. And a system where the richest 5 percent earn 37 percent of the income and pay 38.5 percent of the taxes is not, I would submit, a draconian left-wing imposition.


Where does Brooks get this wildly wrong figure? The number he cites describes the share of federal income taxes paid for by the richest 5 percent. But the American tax system is a mix of regressive and progressive taxes. State and local taxes, as well as federal payroll taxes, tend to levy higher rates on the poor and middle class than on the rich. The income tax, which is steeply progressive, helps to tilt the balance of the burden back in the other direction. When conservatives portray the tax code as unfair to the rich, they usually cite just the income-tax burden, calculating that their audience will fail to notice that “income taxes” do not mean taxes as a whole. Brooks uses the term “taxes” when he means “income taxes.” He has fallen for his own ruse.