lets talk herring

[NIB]

U guys make nice martyrs.
Guys have been taking Herring for bait about as long as i been alive.
A rec.herring fishery closer is useless with out a concurrent closer by the comm.s
Another case where the recreational fisherman has to tke the hit because a fishery is being overrun by greedy goverment subsidized commercial fishin fleets.Who basically have no regaurds but the almighty dollar.They have been doin it for yrs.There's a long list of usta be species.Its all about maximum yeild.Good luck tryin to change anything as they are major contributors to a goverment run by greed.Just say goodby an get used to it.
Now I expect some friend of a commercial fisherman will say I don't know what i'm talkin bout or its the seals or somethin.Or I am insensitive to the plight of the romantic art of the fisherman.Ya i cried watchin the perfect storm.Take a look at how successful the commercial ban on netting mullet has been for the state of florida.
The goverment simply stopped dumping money into a tired old american industry an bought em out.Florida went from a dead see to a fishermans dream.I really don't know why we can't do the same.A farmraised fish talapia is quickly becoming one of the worlds favorite.More should be done in this type of fishin or we will soon have nothing left.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by NIB

U guys make nice martyrs.
Guys have been taking Herring for bait about as long as i been alive.
A rec.herring fishery closer is useless with out a concurrent closer by the comm.s
Another case where the recreational fisherman has to tke the hit because a fishery is being overrun by greedy goverment subsidized commercial fishin fleets.Who basically have no regaurds but the almighty dollar.They have been doin it for yrs.There's a long list of usta be species.Its all about maximum yeild.Good luck tryin to change anything as they are major contributors to a goverment run by greed.Just say goodby an get used to it.
Now I expect some friend of a commercial fisherman will say I don't know what i'm talkin bout or its the seals or somethin.Or I am insensitive to the plight of the romantic art of the fisherman.Ya i cried watchin the perfect storm.Take a look at how successful the commercial ban on netting mullet has been for the state of florida.
The goverment simply stopped dumping money into a tired old american industry an bought em out.Florida went from a dead see to a fishermans dream.I really don't know why we can't do the same.A farmraised fish talapia is quickly becoming one of the worlds favorite.More should be done in this type of fishin or we will soon have nothing left.

AFAIK there is no commercial fishery for blueback herring.

[basswipe]

Pen raising saltwater fish has its own problems.As has already been shown with farm raising salmon these fish by virtue of being raised in pens are genetically inferior to their wild counterparts.

These fish have been known to escape in enough numbers and interbreed with wild populations and introduce their infererior genentics into the general population.This can cause a host of problems mainly which is the newborn fish are prone to disease.

Don't get me wrong farm raising fish is a good thing but its techniques need to be vastly improved.

Obviously fish farm raised soley in self contained freshwater ponds don't apply.

[MoroneSaxatilis]

Originally Posted by squiddler

A hand gear only i.e rod and reel, hand line, or harpoon only, no nets over 10 feet in diameter, no pots over 5 on trawls, etc. fishery could support many a bayman again and supply the local markets with fresh fish as well as domestic and international trade with gourmet and high end restaraunts..... Don't threaten to cut them off entirely, only force them to micro size and change their ways......

You can't change a pickel back into a cucumber. The fish wholesale industry has aggressively marketed over the last 10-20 years to establish new domestic and foreign markets. A quaint, smallboat, "bayman" type fishery would never be able to supply today's demand. Since demand would far outstrip supply, prices would skyrocket. Maybe the doulbled, tripled, or even quadrupled prices would be enough to convince the dealers, proccessors, and wholesalers that they'll still be able to maintain thier very comfortable lifestyles despite a downsized fishery.
Many nations place little or no restrictions on thier fishing fleets, despite heavy international pressure to do so. Unilateral action by 1 or 2 countries will never be effective.
Unfortunately there is no easy answer. Days-at sea regulations only show limited success. Boat buy-back programs have been uneven at best and a ludicrous waste of taxpayer dollars at worse (case in point: US gave subsidized loans to boat owners in the 70's to build more, bigger, more powerfull scallop boats, then offered to buy them back in the late eighties/early ninties to reduce fishing pressure).
Round & round we go... where it stops....

[squiddler]

Originally Posted by basswipe

Pen raising saltwater fish has its own problems.As has already been shown with farm raising salmon these fish by virtue of being raised in pens are genetically inferior to their wild counterparts.

These fish have been known to escape in enough numbers and interbreed with wild populations and introduce their infererior genentics into the general population.This can cause a host of problems mainly which is the newborn fish are prone to disease.

Don't get me wrong farm raising fish is a good thing but its techniques need to be vastly improved.

Obviously fish farm raised soley in self contained freshwater ponds don't apply.

Pen raised fish are genetically identical to their wild counterparts, because they are taken from wild stocks, corralled into floating pens, and fed at a super rate to yield large fish quickly. That is why you do not see crazy prices like you used to for Bluefin tuna, as the Japanese(who drive the main demand anyway) can control the market much better. You just don't see single fish fetching those 20,000 plus price tags anymore.

Farm raised fish do have their basic problems, but the Chinese have been farming fish successfully for over 2000 years. They can rear 4 different types of freshwater fish in the same pond, all benefitting each other and the environment.

In regards to Salmon farming, it is an industry that needs major improvement, I will agree. These fish are often times raised solely in fresh water farms like you mentioned, but they can and do escape even these, breeding with native stocks etc. and also polluting the hell out of the surrounding lands.
Yet shellfish farms and pen reared fish do not have these problems you mentioned above, as they use natural stocks and tidal areas to keep the water clean and healthy.

[NIB]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

AFAIK there is no commercial fishery for blueback herring.

What is AFAIK ?

Is there a commercial fishery for ATLANTIC SEA HERRING?
I guess what ur tell me its the rec.fisherman takin to many.not the bycatch._Please.Where are the American Shad.They all swim the same basic waters.net em up put em in a can they all taste the same pickled.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by NIB

What is AFAIK ?

Is there a commercial fishery for ATLANTIC SEA HERRING?
I guess what ur tell me its the rec.fisherman takin to many.not the bycatch._Please.Where are the American Shad.They all swim the same basic waters.net em up put em in a can they all taste the same pickled.

AFAIK=As far as I know.

Yes there is a commercial fishery for both sea herring and shad. NMFS says that by catch of river herring in the sea herring fishery is minimal. By catch of river herring in the shad fishey could be a problem, but I think the commercial shad fishery in New England is mostly gone now.

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

AFAIK=As far as I know.

Yes there is a commercial fishery for both sea herring and shad. NMFS says that by catch of river herring in the sea herring fishery is minimal. By catch of river herring in the shad fishey could be a problem, but I think the commercial shad fishery in New England is mostly gone now.

FWIW, I lived on the Palmer River in Rehoboth most of my life, walking distance to the herring run and shad fishing areas. I moved South to Newport this year, but prior to that I've always had a REAL good sense of both the shad run and the herring runs on the river both because I fished it constantly and because I was a herring officer for the town for several years. So since I'm 28, we'll say I have a good 18 years or so of unscientific data in my head. The Palmer supports, as far as I know, the only American shad run in Narragansett Bay. IMO the size and quantity of those fish is as good as it ever was, maybe better. Yet the herring (both bluebacks and alewifes) are almost gone. You can stare at the ladder and the waterfall for hours and see nothing.

Not sure what the point of this is or what it indicates if anything, but it certainly supports the idea that there is little to no American Shad fishery if it is clearly healthy, at least in that river. If the shad were falling victim to the same sort of commercial fishing the herring are, I would be very aware of it.

[Offshore]

The Shad run on the Merrimack, which was second in size only to Connecticut only 10 years ago has been going down hill steadily since then and is a matter of serious concern to MDMF

[NIB]

The classic Shad run on the Delaware is nothing like it used to be.

[slapshot]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

AFAIK=As far as I know.

Yes there is a commercial fishery for both sea herring and shad. NMFS says that by catch of river herring in the sea herring fishery is minimal. By catch of river herring in the shad fishey could be a problem, but I think the commercial shad fishery in New England is mostly gone now.

Thats what they say, but they don't have the science to prove it. They only have observers on 2-3% of the vessels. That is not a respresentative sample. You couldn't go down to the ramp, ask 2-3 out of 100 fishermen what they caught and then multiply their catch rate by the other 97 fishermen. The NMFS admits that they need more observers, and they asked for a pile of money to do it last year. I don't know if they got the funding. I am guessing its a low priority.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by slapshot

Thats what they say, but they don't have the science to prove it. They only have observers on 2-3% of the vessels. That is not a respresentative sample. You couldn't go down to the ramp, ask 2-3 out of 100 fishermen what they caught and then multiply their catch rate by the other 97 fishermen. The NMFS admits that they need more observers, and they asked for a pile of money to do it last year. I don't know if they got the funding. I am guessing its a low priority.

2-3% can be a statistically valid sample, what percentage of the voting public do you think those presidential polls use? A small sample increases the margin for error (standard deviation) but even with a 2-3% sampling rate, all else being equal (i.e. times of year, fishing areas, etc) their current statistics do indicate little bycatch in the sea herring fishery. I'm not saying that figures are gospel, but even if they were double, it would indicate little bycatch in the sea herring fishery.