Anti-American/Unpatriotic

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by scottw

not as long as they follow orders....but I would say that if they are deeply steeped in Marxist theology, they might be fighting on the wrong side....I'm guessing there are very few...

That sounds pretty "Gray" to me....I thought it was Black and White. If they support a Marxist Ideaology they are Unpatriotic and Un-American....Period.

[PaulS]

ScottW, sounds like your views are in the minority of what most Americans believe and perhaps you should re-examine them as they infact, may be "Un-American".

[scottw]

HAPPY MAY DAY COMRADES!!! if i'm a minority then I'm gonna be looking for some bennies......I would never assume to know what "MOST AMERICANS" believe...that would involve a pretty extensive poll, I do laugh when I hear politicians and pundints suggest that they know what most of America thinks and believes...and I have seen the electoral maps post-election...pretty telling

[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

That sounds pretty "Gray" to me....I thought it was Black and White. If they support a Marxist Ideaology they are Unpatriotic and Un-American....Period.

I'm trying to think of history's great Marxists and their lasting contributions to our planet? Can you name a few??

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by scottw

I'm trying to think of history's great Marxists and their lasting contributions to our planet? Can you name a few??

oh...oh. I know some contibutions!!!

Starvation.
Massive food lines.
Crumbling Infrastructure.
Economic Stagnation.
Lack of scientific and social growth.

Look at these bastions of political strength that adhered to a Marxist philosphy.:

"The following countries had governments at some point in the twentieth century who at least nominally adhered to Marxism: Albania, Afghanistan, Angola, Benin, Bulgaria, Chile, China, Republic of Congo, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Ethiopia, Grenada, Hungary, Laos, Moldova, Mongolia, Mozambique, Nepal, Nicaragua, North Korea, Poland, Romania, Russia, the USSR and its republics, South Yemen, Yugoslavia, Venezuela, Vietnam. In addition, the Indian states of Kerala and West Bengal have had Marxist governments. Some of these governments such as in Venezuela, Nicaragua, Chile, Moldova and parts of India have been democratic in nature and maintained regular multiparty elections, while most governments claiming to be Marxist in nature have established one-party governments."

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by scottw

For me it's simple..black and white some would say, I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American,

Black or White....Yes or No.......You made the statement, not me.

Are the troops that are registered Democrats UnPatriotic and Anti-American.......or is there a "Gray" Area?

Originally Posted by scottw

I'm trying to think of history's great Marxists and their lasting contributions to our planet? Can you name a few??

Are you gonna answer the Question or are you going to start a new Thread

[scottw]

first there are a lot of dems that don't subscribe to Marxist theory, but I thought that on a day like today when there are a whole lot of marches and protests round the country with folks sporting Che Guevara tee shirts and bashing the country I thought it would be interesting to spark a little conversation on the subject, apparently there are many who either support or will not condemn...interesting...

any soldier in the US military, however they are affiliated or registered has the the right to their own beliefs, if said military member was to subscribe to Marxist theory and I found myself in a foxhole with him in say , Columbia helping our ally to beat back Marxist rebels funded by Hugo Chavez and I knew that he/she had their Che Guevara tee shirt under their fatigues and deep down actually sympathized with the dudes shooting at me.....well....do I have to answer that ?

would I consider a member of the military dedicated to Marxist views to be unpatriotic?...the answer is yes, can't see how the two jive, but that's just me

[PaulS]

Somehow I think McCarthy would be smiling.

[scottw]

Really??? so if a member of the US military harbors radical islamic beliefs, that's ok too...where do YOU draw the line?? is this also tolerance for differing thought, should members of his unit have any concern, you guys are disappointing me...this country was founded on Liberty and Freedom, there's no freeodm associated with Marxism, how many failed examples do you need...Marxism demands slavery to the state, Europe is a mess, their little socialist democracies couldn't make it on their own so they've banded together so suck each others blood for a while, till that runs out, the healthcare model that Clinton and Obama propose is failing miserably in Canada, England and everywhere else, but that doesn't matter, just keep trashing the best healthcare in the world...make everyone dependent on government for everything, that's is the montra of the left...they make it sound real sweet, "don't cry for me America"...always results in great pain...but like I said...you've got a 50/50 shot at Marxist Eutopia....

[The Dad Fisherman]

See, now your fine tuning....we went from an entire politcal party to 1 member of the military. and in that situation, whether Radical Islam or Commie Sympathiser....its NOT OK....but that is an isolated case......Not one big Stereotype that you were aiming at before

Originally Posted by scottw

Really??? so if a member of the US military harbors radical islamic beliefs, that's ok too...where do YOU draw the line?? is this also tolerance for differing thought, should members of his unit have any concern, you guys are disappointing me...this country was founded on Liberty and Freedom, there's no freeodm associated with Marxism, how many failed examples do you need...Marxism demands slavery to the state, Europe is a mess, their little socialist democracies couldn't make it on their own so they've banded together so suck each others blood for a while, till that runs out, the healthcare model that Clinton and Obama propose is failing miserably in Canada, England and everywhere else, but that doesn't matter, just keep trashing the best healthcare in the world...make everyone dependent on government for everything, that's is the montra of the left...they make it sound real sweet, "don't cry for me America"...always results in great pain...but like I said...you've got a 50/50 shot at Marxist Eutopia....

[Flaptail]

The current administration is corrupt, morally and politically though I don't have any idea how a politician these days can get to the office of commander in chief or vice c.i.c. without being a touch so.

You have lost personal freedoms,the "Patriot Act" has accomplished this in the very function that Ol Ben Franklin warned about.

Government for the People and by the People is no longer a reality on the federal scale and is rapidly being lost on the state scale and in some town meetings.

Our President is a liar and unworthy of the office he holds and his Vice President is even worse. Turns out that Rumsfeld was actually the only one who wanted to get out of Iraq when it was realized that they, after going in on false pretenses and not fully prepared ( exit strategy), had screwed the pooch.

Can you be of differing political and social values and be an American and Patriotic? YOU BET YOUR ASS YOU CAN! And that is what makes this country great. One idealogical path for all citizens is no different than a view of communism or Marxism in it's intolerance of other types if it allows no dissention or differing thought and squashes those views from being heard by the act of Freedom of Speech.

Soldiers can harbor differing views as well and though some be be radical as long as they do not promote harm or injustice to others they are free to harbor those ideologies. It's guaranteed by our Constitution. Soldiers and sailors and airmen will all tell you that after thier tours are over and after they have been through war or posted in less fortubnate countries that they feel more patriotic because of what we have here and what we have here is because of our constitution. The patriotism is not based on support of the administration but of the people and the freedoms we have to think differently, worship or not worship as we see fit, go where we want ,wear what we want, listen to whom and what we want say what we want to say and so on.

Soldiers do thier duty, they have sworn to it and most don't like most of the situations they are in and all in all when put in a bad situation they fight not for the administration's ideals ( or lies as in our current Iraq involvement) but for the support of each other in that situation once there, for survival of each other. The current Iraq mess is not a patriotic war where we were attacked and our way of life threatened. The war on terror may be but Iraq was not part of that war. The guy who we needed to go after who actually does threaten us still lives in a cave in Afghanistan/Pakistan. He probably laughs his way to and from daily prayers about Iraq.

Patriotism and being a true American means following the ideals of the constitution and the core values that it speciffically states. Free speech, right to assemble, pursuit of happiness and equality and that being the case, in a true constitutional America anyone is free to say and believe what he wants when he wants and where he wants no matter how radical.

The constitution is under attack today by a manipulating adminstration who seeks to change the basic core values to suit thier agenda. In that case our current administration is actually totally un-patriotic and un-american don't you think?

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Somehow I think McCarthy would be smiling.

Could not have said it better.

This type of branding of alternate frames of reference and differing points of view as somtething un-american are the same as they have always been. Same turd different toilet. It is a personal attack, inciting distastes for things perceived to be disloyal thereby prematurely cutting off further dialogue and any reconciliation. As it applies here in this thread it is a very weak argument technique.

[The Dad Fisherman]

You made a direct correlation that being a democrat (unless of course you were talking republican below) also means you support Marxism. You made no mention or distinction that it had anything to do with supporting Marxist views, which is totally different. You said its Black and white. Obviously it isn't.

Originally Posted by scottw

one of our two predominant parties is run and funded by folks that would love to shove Marxism down our throats and fundamentally change this country, they'd prefer to rip up our founding documents and create their own new and improved version of the Communist Manifesto,

Now you say that there are a lot of Dems that don't......again I thought it was Black and White. Can you make up your mind please

Originally Posted by scottw

first there are a lot of dems that don't subscribe to Marxist theory,