Anti-American/Unpatriotic

[scottw]

first there are a lot of dems that don't subscribe to Marxist theory, but I thought that on a day like today when there are a whole lot of marches and protests round the country with folks sporting Che Guevara tee shirts and bashing the country I thought it would be interesting to spark a little conversation on the subject, apparently there are many who either support or will not condemn...interesting...

any soldier in the US military, however they are affiliated or registered has the the right to their own beliefs, if said military member was to subscribe to Marxist theory and I found myself in a foxhole with him in say , Columbia helping our ally to beat back Marxist rebels funded by Hugo Chavez and I knew that he/she had their Che Guevara tee shirt under their fatigues and deep down actually sympathized with the dudes shooting at me.....well....do I have to answer that ?

would I consider a member of the military dedicated to Marxist views to be unpatriotic?...the answer is yes, can't see how the two jive, but that's just me

[PaulS]

Somehow I think McCarthy would be smiling.

[scottw]

Really??? so if a member of the US military harbors radical islamic beliefs, that's ok too...where do YOU draw the line?? is this also tolerance for differing thought, should members of his unit have any concern, you guys are disappointing me...this country was founded on Liberty and Freedom, there's no freeodm associated with Marxism, how many failed examples do you need...Marxism demands slavery to the state, Europe is a mess, their little socialist democracies couldn't make it on their own so they've banded together so suck each others blood for a while, till that runs out, the healthcare model that Clinton and Obama propose is failing miserably in Canada, England and everywhere else, but that doesn't matter, just keep trashing the best healthcare in the world...make everyone dependent on government for everything, that's is the montra of the left...they make it sound real sweet, "don't cry for me America"...always results in great pain...but like I said...you've got a 50/50 shot at Marxist Eutopia....

[The Dad Fisherman]

See, now your fine tuning....we went from an entire politcal party to 1 member of the military. and in that situation, whether Radical Islam or Commie Sympathiser....its NOT OK....but that is an isolated case......Not one big Stereotype that you were aiming at before

Originally Posted by scottw

Really??? so if a member of the US military harbors radical islamic beliefs, that's ok too...where do YOU draw the line?? is this also tolerance for differing thought, should members of his unit have any concern, you guys are disappointing me...this country was founded on Liberty and Freedom, there's no freeodm associated with Marxism, how many failed examples do you need...Marxism demands slavery to the state, Europe is a mess, their little socialist democracies couldn't make it on their own so they've banded together so suck each others blood for a while, till that runs out, the healthcare model that Clinton and Obama propose is failing miserably in Canada, England and everywhere else, but that doesn't matter, just keep trashing the best healthcare in the world...make everyone dependent on government for everything, that's is the montra of the left...they make it sound real sweet, "don't cry for me America"...always results in great pain...but like I said...you've got a 50/50 shot at Marxist Eutopia....

[Flaptail]

The current administration is corrupt, morally and politically though I don't have any idea how a politician these days can get to the office of commander in chief or vice c.i.c. without being a touch so.

You have lost personal freedoms,the "Patriot Act" has accomplished this in the very function that Ol Ben Franklin warned about.

Government for the People and by the People is no longer a reality on the federal scale and is rapidly being lost on the state scale and in some town meetings.

Our President is a liar and unworthy of the office he holds and his Vice President is even worse. Turns out that Rumsfeld was actually the only one who wanted to get out of Iraq when it was realized that they, after going in on false pretenses and not fully prepared ( exit strategy), had screwed the pooch.

Can you be of differing political and social values and be an American and Patriotic? YOU BET YOUR ASS YOU CAN! And that is what makes this country great. One idealogical path for all citizens is no different than a view of communism or Marxism in it's intolerance of other types if it allows no dissention or differing thought and squashes those views from being heard by the act of Freedom of Speech.

Soldiers can harbor differing views as well and though some be be radical as long as they do not promote harm or injustice to others they are free to harbor those ideologies. It's guaranteed by our Constitution. Soldiers and sailors and airmen will all tell you that after thier tours are over and after they have been through war or posted in less fortubnate countries that they feel more patriotic because of what we have here and what we have here is because of our constitution. The patriotism is not based on support of the administration but of the people and the freedoms we have to think differently, worship or not worship as we see fit, go where we want ,wear what we want, listen to whom and what we want say what we want to say and so on.

Soldiers do thier duty, they have sworn to it and most don't like most of the situations they are in and all in all when put in a bad situation they fight not for the administration's ideals ( or lies as in our current Iraq involvement) but for the support of each other in that situation once there, for survival of each other. The current Iraq mess is not a patriotic war where we were attacked and our way of life threatened. The war on terror may be but Iraq was not part of that war. The guy who we needed to go after who actually does threaten us still lives in a cave in Afghanistan/Pakistan. He probably laughs his way to and from daily prayers about Iraq.

Patriotism and being a true American means following the ideals of the constitution and the core values that it speciffically states. Free speech, right to assemble, pursuit of happiness and equality and that being the case, in a true constitutional America anyone is free to say and believe what he wants when he wants and where he wants no matter how radical.

The constitution is under attack today by a manipulating adminstration who seeks to change the basic core values to suit thier agenda. In that case our current administration is actually totally un-patriotic and un-american don't you think?

[Raven]

talk about waking a sleeping Giant...

nice goin BTW


i just wanted to interject a comment about adopting our traditions

not all of them are so well accepted in other cultures that they are to be so readily
adopted by a new American.

thats it,
Carry on....

[OnTheLedge]

Originally Posted by Raven

talk about waking a sleeping Giant...

nice goin BTW

Ha ha...sleeping yes....giant no. I hope your dog's feeling better, Raven.

[scottw]

sounds like a lot of guys are wearing their Che Guevara tees today

Dad, I felt that I answered your question, you wanted to know if I felt that a military member holding marxist views and I said yes, after a lifetime spent in a military town and still surround by neighbors and friends, family both former and current military I can tell you that the next military member that I meet will a marxist belief system will be the first
The comment about the party and financial backers forcing Marxism on us was based on two candidates promising huge expansions of government and backers like George Soros who are happily admited enemies of the capitalist system and himself an unabashed Marxist, read one of his books ...

the Democrat candidates have left little doubt that they intend to bring about "change" in the form of a huge central government, their words, not mine....

if we are to descend into a nation of wholesale government dependence ...I consider that very un-American...but hey, that's a Marxist's dream...forgive me for my critical thinking...and once again, Happy May Day

[The Dad Fisherman]

See, I don't feel you answered the question I asked....you answered the spin you put on the Question I asked.

Originally Posted by scottw

Dad, I felt that I answered your question, you wanted to know if I felt that a military member holding marxist views and I said yes,

This was the question I asked....and all it needs is a one word answer Yes OR No.....you know Black OR White

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

So what you're saying is that you don't support any of the troops in Iraq or Afghanistan if they are registered Democrats, because they are supporting a Marxist Ideaology and therefore are Unpatriotic and Anti- American.

[OnTheLedge]

Originally Posted by scottw

sounds like a lot of guys are wearing their Che Guevara tees today
....The comment about the party and financial backers forcing Marxism on us was based on two candidates promising huge expansions of government and backers like George Soros who are happily admited enemies of the capitalist system and himself an unabashed Marxist, read one of his books ...

I don't know mujhviuefi....oops my Che Guevara beret fell onto the keyboard. I don't know much about George Soros, so I did a Wikipedia search (Not a definitive source, but it's a start).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros

No mention of communism, socialism or Marxism. It does say that he supported the Solidarity movement in Poland, which defeated the socialist government there. It also says he made his fortune trading in capital markets, stocks etc. He hardly sounds like one of the "happily admited enemies of the capitalist system and himself an unabashed Marxist," Again...you're long on labels and short on facts.

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Somehow I think McCarthy would be smiling.

Could not have said it better.

This type of branding of alternate frames of reference and differing points of view as somtething un-american are the same as they have always been. Same turd different toilet. It is a personal attack, inciting distastes for things perceived to be disloyal thereby prematurely cutting off further dialogue and any reconciliation. As it applies here in this thread it is a very weak argument technique.

[The Dad Fisherman]

You made a direct correlation that being a democrat (unless of course you were talking republican below) also means you support Marxism. You made no mention or distinction that it had anything to do with supporting Marxist views, which is totally different. You said its Black and white. Obviously it isn't.

Originally Posted by scottw

one of our two predominant parties is run and funded by folks that would love to shove Marxism down our throats and fundamentally change this country, they'd prefer to rip up our founding documents and create their own new and improved version of the Communist Manifesto,

Now you say that there are a lot of Dems that don't......again I thought it was Black and White. Can you make up your mind please

Originally Posted by scottw

first there are a lot of dems that don't subscribe to Marxist theory,