future of the stripers?

[Crafty Angler]

[QUOTE=RIROCKHOUND;604551]I agree, by-catch is a problem, draggers are a problem, but we (rec anglers) have to look in the mirror too!!! We land a lot more than the commercial (I understand landings do not include by-catch!) but rec landings do not count ~8% release mortality on C/R fish. And you can argue that your release mortality is lower, but go watch some average jamoke releasing a fish; it is often not done quickly or easily, with little wear on the fish especially with a 2 or 3 treble hook plug. I bet it averages out close to the 8% I remember reading somewhere.
[QUOTE]

Thanks Bry - you beat me to the punch and saved me the typing - well said.

You know, I can't say I was crazy about the SW license deal but (hopefully) it's great benefit will be to give us all better info on catch rates from the recreational sector during their surveys and institute measures to ensure the continuing health of the fishery. It remains to be seen whether that will come to pass from NMFS or not.

All of this musty stuff I like to shuffle through on 19th and early 20th century club records and catch rates always seems to repeat the same tune. Periods of phenomenal fishing for bass always seem to be followed by a precipitous stock crash. Cause and effect may be hard to establish, but increased catch rates on both sides of the fence are certainly part of it. Sure, other factors are involved too but it's way too obvious to be discounted.

Perhaps when the info is in we'll meet the enemy only to find it is us -that is to say, not the crowd gathered here but the recs who are tonging fish just for the slap on the back from the boys and not their value as damn good table fare put to good use.

Bry, I've gotta get in touch with Dr O'Nitis to see how survey info is used - and I can bait him with the 1861 Agassiz book he wants to borrow from my archives

[macojoe]

So..
if you 'Gladly give up all my Lic and buy a rec lic if they would close all inshore commercial fishing!!'

what would you do?

I can't afford 4x a week in the boat. when I was fishing 4x a week in a boat, it was a much smaller boat. So I boat fish ~1x a week and surf fish the rest. I enjoy it all, fish caught or not.

This off topic anyways.

My original point was we need to look at ourselves (rec anglers) just as much as we need to point fingers at Comm. guys.

If they stopped all commercial fishing inshore, the fish would return, quotes would increase, and there would be no need to have to go 4 times a week for food on the table. There would be plenty for everyone!

[Mike P]

I would venture to guess that 75% of the guys who hold a Mass commercial license don't fish for anything else, commercially. The 25% who do, I feel for them, because they're being aced out by guys fishing to defray the cost of their fun.

It's a joke--$65 for a license and bass endorsement for in-staters, $160 for out of staters. It's a system designed for recs to defray their fishing costs. It's unfair to guys who make a living from fishing, and DMF should start by requiring documentation from license holders that at least 50% of their income is derived from the sale of fin and shellfish.

Wouldn't it be nice for the guys who fish for a living to be able to sell bass in June and September, maybe even into October? Eliminate the recs from selling fish, and you'd be able to actually make money from selling bass.

[riverrat2]

Originally Posted by Mike P

I would venture to guess that 75% of the guys who hold a Mass commercial license don't fish for anything else, commercially. The 25% who do, I feel for them, because they're being aced out by guys fishing to defray the cost of their fun.

It's a joke--$65 for a license and bass endorsement for in-staters, $160 for out of staters. It's a system designed for recs to defray their fishing costs. It's unfair to guys who make a living from fishing, and DMF should start by requiring documentation from license holders that at least 50% of their income is derived from the sale of fin and shellfish.

Wouldn't it be nice for the guys who fish for a living to be able to sell bass in June and September, maybe even into October? Eliminate the recs from selling fish, and you'd be able to actually make money from selling bass.

Voice of reason. Macojoe you don't seem to be making much since in one post you say you sell fish in order to pay for gas but then you say you get a comm license so that you can keep enough fish for your family. ??? Its the people that sell bass just to cover gas for the season that are ruining it for everyone else

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by riverrat2

Its the people that sell bass just to cover gas for the season that are ruining it for everyone else

why is that?

Originally Posted by Mike P

It's unfair to guys who make a living from fishing, and DMF should start by requiring documentation from license holders that at least 50% of their income is derived from the sale of fin and shellfish.


.

I've never understood this, why is it unfair Mike.
That will never happen as long as America is a free country.
I see no reason why a person should not be able to have more than one way to make a living.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Wouldn't it be nice for the guys who fish for a living to be able to sell bass in June and September, maybe even into October? Eliminate the recs from selling fish, and you'd be able to actually make money from selling bass.

I think it is more complicated than people realize. The commericial value of striped bass actually diminishes as the price goes up, even while the "value" of the landings goes up. The lower the price, the greater the value to the economy. When striped bass is cheaper than alternative food sources, people can spend less of their income on food and more on other economic goods. When striped bass is expensive, buying it reduces spending in other areas of the economy. It gets pretty complex, but suffice it to say that as far as the nonfishing public is concerned, their interests are best served by glutting the market and driving prices low (which is why abundant stocks are a priority). Whether current fishery managers consider this when establishing fishing regulations, I'm unsure.

While on the topic, as I understand it the recreational argument that the value of the sport fishery is the sum of angler expenditures is also bogus. Most of us spend a lot on our hobby, but if that hobby didn't exist we would spend the same on something else. The money spent on fishing tackle does create some additional jobs, taxes, and multiplier effects....and that is where the actual value of recreational fishing lies, but it is nowhere near as large as we like to think.

[Raider Ronnie]

What a surprise !

1st day commercial season and one of these bull%$%$%$%$ treads comes up !
Ever year the same thing !!!

[Raider Ronnie]

The " YO YO " tread will be coming up any day now !!!

[Pete F.]

[.

All of this musty stuff I like to shuffle through on 19th and early 20th century club records and catch rates always seems to repeat the same tune. Periods of phenomenal fishing for bass always seem to be followed by a precipitous stock crash. Cause and effect may be hard to establish, but increased catch rates on both sides of the fence are certainly part of it. Sure, other factors are involved too but it's way too obvious to be discounted.

Perhaps when the info is in we'll meet the enemy only to find it is us -that is to say, not the crowd gathered here but the recs who are tonging fish just for the slap on the back from the boys and not their value as damn good table fare put to good use.

Do you think recreational fishing was much of a factor prior to the Second World War?
Are the fluctuations in Striped Bass and Bluefish populations part of a normal cycle where populations increase until they eat themselves out of a supply of food or become so dense, that the populations crash from lack of food or disease. I understand that this does happen with some species.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by bluefishercat

[.

Do you think recreational fishing was much of a factor prior to the Second World War?
Are the fluctuations in Striped Bass and Bluefish populations part of a normal cycle where populations increase until they eat themselves out of a supply of food or become so dense, that the populations crash from lack of food or disease. I understand that this does happen with some species.

the industrial revolution really took its tool on the fish stocks.. damming of rivers, dumping chemicals in the rivers.. etc.. Polution was to blame then.

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by bluefishercat

Do you think recreational fishing was much of a factor prior to the Second World War?

Sure it was.

I have a lot of photos in my collection from the late 1800's and early 1900's with lots of large dead bass which equals....well, lots of dead large bass. The unimaginably wealthy men who were members of those historic striped bass clubs spent phenominal amounts on their sporting pursuits. The combined catches of the clubs in Newport, on West Island (off Sakonnet Point) and on Cuttyhunk is nothing short of amazing - West Island's catch records alone list 2,406 striped bass caught in 1874 but it dwindled to a paltry eight by 1906. When you add to that the flood of immigrants in this area sustainance fishing for bass to feed their families during the boom it starts to add up from what would be considered the rec side.

I also have a copy of a 1914 Field and Stream that has the story of Church's world record 73# bass told in his own words that I gave to Tattoo to use on his website. What makes it even more impressive was that there were so few bass of any size and it took years for the fishery to recover in the '40's.

Originally Posted by Nebe

the industrial revolution really took its tool on the fish stocks.. damming of rivers, dumping chemicals in the rivers.. etc.. Polution was to blame then.

The pollution from the industrialization of the Northeast that destroyed the spawning habitat was another major link in the chain of events that compounded the problem and led to the crash.

Originally Posted by bluefishercat

Are the fluctuations in Striped Bass and Bluefish populations part of a normal cycle where populations increase until they eat themselves out of a supply of food or become so dense, that the populations crash from lack of food or disease. I understand that this does happen with some species.

Overfishing of the forage stocks was probably the final nail. The number of barrels of mackeral shipped from Newport to New York on the regular steamship route was so great it made the Newport Mercury as news. But the largest commercial catch landed in our waters in monetary value during that boom period was not striped bass but - did you guess it? - menhaden.

You know what they say about those who don't learn from history.

[dar3]

I just read this thread again and it was not intended to be taking the way it was it was to see if you guys thought the striper stocks could be helped with the raising of these fish. Did anyone of you read the article that was posted. I am sorry if commercial guys got bashed that was not the intention at all.

Peace

[Raven]

other than striped bass...

can be grown commercially in fresh water...

not that many...

i can't think of a single other fish at the moment

that's where the solution is... imho

when it's said to be more profitable than
raising hogs...

and without all the pollution
that's killing off the Chesapeake bay...

i think that's an important fact to remember.

[bart]

i don't think you should withdraw your thread just because a couple of comm's got upset. as long as striped bass are not game fish, there will always be some sort of discussion/debate...

[Crafty Angler]

Dar3, I see you're a new member - at least you got a valuable lesson as a newbie.

Be very careful when you push the button on that topic.

We really oughta label it:

Caution: May cause spontaneous combustion