Is this the begining of the end? - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

BigFish · 07-23-2008, 08:23 AM

I think something is unbalanced.....definite shortage of fish, even small fish this season after last season which had plenty???? The only thing I can put ny finger on is the abundance of bait, and BIG bait, and the fact that the fish seem to be staying off shore following that bait? I hope that is the case.....other than that, I see problems.

Clogston29 · 07-23-2008, 08:40 AM

personally, I think its just a matter of bait being offshore = fish being offshore this year. next year it may be the opposite. who knows? there are so many factors that lead to this.

bait and fish being offshore in turn makes stripers easier to catch for the boat guys who really know what they're doing out there (especially commerical guys, who keep many fish, and bigger fish pay more, which leads to word getting around that there are big fish everwhere offshore) and harder for surf guys and more novice & more shallow water focused boaters. since it is now harder for the majority of anglers, especially anglers who tend to post here, opinions sway towards "there must be something wrong".

RIROCKHOUND · 07-23-2008, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clogston29

and harder for surf guys and more novice & more shallow water focused boaters. since it is now harder for the majority of anglers, especially anglers who tend to post here, opinions sway towards "there must be something wrong".

Yeah, but when I hear accomplished rec and comm anglers thinking the same thing, my ears perk up...

The lack of small fish, and the abundance of big fish in a select few locations has me concerned...

JFigliuolo · 07-23-2008, 08:49 AM

[QUOTE=RIROCKHOUND;606980]Yeah, but when I hear accomplished rec and comm anglers thinking the same thing, my ears perk up...
QUOTE]

Me too... Especially guys that fished through the moritrum and the time leading up to it.

Clogston29 · 07-23-2008, 08:50 AM

that's true. being "up here" where striper fishing isn't as prominent as southern MA and RI we really don't get much first hand info from commerical/very experienced guys so that probably influences my opinion. i will say that there are good numbers of smaller fish up this way.

the abundence of big fish in concentrated areas does concern me, because it makes them very vulnerable to overfishing.

dar3 · 07-23-2008, 09:25 AM

I agree with clogston 29. The fisheries have never been under such a microscope is there shady stuff going on yes there is and if you think there is not I have some investments for you. Is everybody who catches fish and keeps them wrong and shady as long as they follow the law. Not in the laws eyes but maybe in yours How many off you guys keep logs of fish caught ,were they were caught , the tide , moon and year.etc? I feel if you keep these stats I bet you would be suprised that they would correspond with the yoy report or at least close to either side of the scale. I have seen so many talking about big fish kills and how they took these fish out of the gene pool etc. I am not 100 % but I also believe that the new laws that are up and coming are to allow for a better data base to keep better statictics for the future not just for the money. Will it work over night NO Will it help with the future I believe it will. The more people that supply data to the authorities in the area that need the info the better we will be. First people need to be honest on what they catch and report for it to be helpfull. I see there are numerous groups within different orginizations involved on this site. Why not be on the front and have your club keep info and basic tracks of fishing trips length weight etc. then the club can submit there findings to the proper people. A simple example is when I was involved with the turkey federation I got up at early hours to be part of a volunteer study to help with the turkey findings in this state I also was involved in helping stock some of the original birds in RI with the RI chapter. No money gained no ego gained it was a simple vlounteer effort to HELP support the things I believe in. If all the people that are asking were are the fish start doing there part now and in the future we will have fisheries for future generations to come. Also the size and possesion limits are different in certain states which is hard to help control a population on a migratory fish. as they do not know what state they are in as they swim. I believe there is a challenge presently in congress about fluke sizes etc. This is some food for thought. I also know fromall the different orginazations I have been involved in the there will always be debates, immature arguments , wars, anme calling and such. All I can say is next year when I hit the water I will have pad and pen keeping track of my fishing days as I know I will be doing the fishery good and I also will be a better fisherman as my memory is not so good. This is just my two cents.

Peace to all and happy fishing

Dar3

Flaptail · 07-23-2008, 09:46 AM

There are billions of little fish around up here, what we are seeing is what we hoped for, a mix of both. The pogies coming back are helping to draw the bigger fish back to the cape. Our only problem now is mung and seals.

We are definetly into the doldrums up here now, a bit early but the water temps have warmed significantly. Hoping the Bonito show soon.

The good side of the warmer weather is that the outer beaches have opened up earlier but Sandy Neck is screwed as the Terns nested late and probably won't open all the way until mid September.

I wouldn't worry too much.

Mike P · 07-23-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaptail

There are billions of little fish around up here, what we are seeing is what we hoped for, a mix of both. The pogies coming back are helping to draw the bigger fish back to the cape.

I wouldn't worry too much.

I agree. Check out the YOY indices between 1971 and 1988, and compare them to the indices over the last 20 years. And bear in mind that between 1971 and the mid-80s, the minimum size limit was 16" fork length and there were no commercial quotas in effect anywhere.

By the way--an "average" YOY index was 8.0 until recently. Recent spawns have been so successful that an "average" YOY index is now 12.0--that's a 50% increase.

Back Beach · 07-23-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaptail

There are billions of little fish around up here, what we are seeing is what we hoped for, a mix of both. The pogies coming back are helping to draw the bigger fish back to the cape. Our only problem now is mung and seals.

We are definetly into the doldrums up here now, a bit early but the water temps have warmed significantly. Hoping the Bonito show soon.

The good side of the warmer weather is that the outer beaches have opened up earlier but Sandy Neck is screwed as the Terns nested late and probably won't open all the way until mid September.

I wouldn't worry too much.

I agree. We have perhaps the best fishery right now I've seen in my lifetime. Yes, I caught a lot more giant fish in the 80's and 90' than I do now, but it was due to the fact I practically lived on the water and there was an abundance of very large fish in the areas I was most competent with in terms of finding and catching fish.

You hear the same "sky is falling" excuses every year from people who are having bad luck. I haven't taken a fish over 30" in three weeks. It’s not from lack of effort or available fish. They're just parked in a different place than they were a few weeks ago on a different pattern.

Rockport24 · 07-23-2008, 09:48 AM

Clogston's gotta right IMO, the big fish are just off shore or concentrated in certain spots where they are being slaughtered (that is cause for concern, but maybe we shoud check the YOY indices to see how many are really being caught compared to how many should be out there)
there are so many damn factors, it's hard to speculate, but that's what this site is for I guess

Truthfully, I noticed a drop off in the "schooliepalooza" we experience every year up on the North Shore, but I think it had more to do with conditions that were keeping the fish off the feed other than the sheer lack of fish. One night we watched dozens of fish swim by a dock and not eat anything....
I still had some good schoolie days in the spring though compared to years past.

Clogston29 · 07-23-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockport24

Truthfully, I noticed a drop off in the "schooliepalooza" we experience every year up on the North Shore

I think the rebounding of pogie, mackeral and herring stocks has alot to do with this. The fish are still there, just not at the same place and not acting the same way.

Rockport24 · 07-23-2008, 10:39 AM

yeah Josh and you know the spot I'm talking about too I think, only one good day there this year, granted I didn't get out as much but 1) they seemed to show up a lot later and 2) much pickier, even when they were there

FishermanTim · 07-23-2008, 10:45 AM

Here's something to ponder.....
What if the drop in smaller bass (schoolies) is the result of the "survival of the fittest" scenario. Since the bunker down south have been harvested for years, depleating the bass' natural food supply, why wouldn't the larger bass resort to cannibalism?
If pike will eat smaller pike, and yellow perch will eat smaller perch (seen 1st hand) why wouldn't stripers eat their own young?
It may be an indirect effect of mankind's interference.

This is only a possible theory....

plankton · 07-23-2008, 10:48 AM

Definitely plenty of schoolies around on the North Shore, I have seen massive schools of 24" fish with smaller/larger ones in the mix, and while there may be a lot of bait offshore, there is certainly no shortage inshore as well. I think shore catches around here are down due to the huge amount of natural forage available, I've been out in the skiff livelining macs and actually watched my offering been molested to death by hordes of schoolies, without being eaten. Over the past few seasons, I would say that the overall size of the bass around has increased, an estuary spot that was full of 12" - 18" stripers two or three seasons back is now holding more fish in the two-foot range, which was unthinkable there a few years ago. Long story short, I have no idea what's going to happen, but I'm very interested in how the fall run will shape up.