Bush was a divider

[RIJIMMY]

Remember that criticism? So whats that make Obama?
Just sharing, sorry to nit pick. Feel free to belittle the observation.

Obama: Most Polarizing President Ever

Monday, April 6, 2009 7:47 PM


In his first two months in office, President Barack Obama has succeeded in widening the political gulf among Americans more than any other president in modern history, according to a new poll. The "partisan gap" between Republicans and Democrats is 10 points larger than it was under George W. Bush.

The gulf – between Democrats and Republicans who say President Obama is succeeding – is also showing signs of further widening, according to a new Pew Research poll.

The poll indicates that 88 percent of Democrats approve of the president's job performance, while just 27 percent of Republicans say the same thing – a 61-point difference.

By comparison, the gap for President George W. Bush at a similar point in his administration was 51 points. It was 45 for Bill Clinton, 38 for George H. W. Bush, and 46 for Ronald Reagan.

The Pew Research Center poll – a survey of polls six weeks into the Obama era – concluded that despite the frequent calls for bipartisanship, U.S. politics is more polarized than at any equivalent point in the past four decades.
"There is no single answer as to why this is happening," Michael Dimock, the associate director at Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, and the author of this study, told Digital Journal.com. "This polarization is part of a long-term pattern. You see increasing polarization with Reagan and then with Bush and now with Obama.


"One argument is that it is the environment that Obama inherited," Dimock said. "The counter-argument is that people came into this presidency optimistic that he would be bipartisan. However, the polarization that we are seeing with Obama is occurring on both sides. It is not just a Republican issue. Democrats support him uniformly - more than they did under Clinton."


The irony is that Obama has made it a central pillar of his presidency to try and heal what was often described at the bitter partisanship of the last three decades. In the final days of the election campaign, he rebuffed Republican claims to represent the "real America" by saying, "There is no city or town that is more pro-America than anywhere else; we are one nation, all of us proud, all of us patriots."


But his strong Democratic support seems to be due to the overwhelmingly liberal Democratic issues that Obama supports in a much more aggressive manner than Bill Clinton did, Dimock said. And that hurts him even more with conservative and moderate Republicans.


"He has taken on an ambitious agenda," Dimock said. "His policies cleave along partisan lines - they are right down the center. Obama's approval results are based on the decisions he has chosen to make."


The Pew findings suggest that, at least up to now, he has been unable to turn back an historic trend in American politics and society, FoxNews.com pointed out. Over the past 40 years the country has grown steadily more polarized.


Richard Nixon at the start of his first term in 1969 had a partisan gap of only 29 percent, and Jimmy Carter in 1977 of only 25 percent. Since then the gulf has widened with every new presidency other than the elder George Bush who succeeded in reducing the gap after Reagan to 38 percent.


"Thirty years ago people on the losing side of an election tended to give new presidents the benefit of the doubt early on, but that seems to have gone," said Dimock.


The explanation for Obama's failure to reintroduce a bipartisan note is in itself polarized, Dimock added.


"Some would argue that he inherited this problem - a nation where divisions were raw and the country divided, despite his best efforts,” he told reporters. “Others will follow the 'he brought it on himself' school of thought, pointing to his ambitious agenda that was always going to ruffle feathers."

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

In his first two months in office, President Barack Obama has succeeded in widening the political gulf among Americans more than any other president in modern history, according to a new poll. The "partisan gap" between Republicans and Democrats is 10 points larger than it was under George W. Bush.

But... the French and Germans like us....

[JohnnyD]

This doesn't surprise me. However, I believe there is a deeper matter going on. There has been a very us vs. them mentality shown throughout all of the Legislative Branch. Republicans oppose anything anyone with -D in their title and Democrats oppose anything with -R in their title.

I'd be willing to bet the divide would be very similar if McCain had won.

[RIJIMMY]

Im confused. When it was posted all the things Obama did vs, what he said he was going to do, you said it didnt suprise you - no president keeps his promises. Now, Obama was HAILED as a uniter, and yet the country is even more divided? You're not suprised. Just curoious, what DO you expect from Obama? If you dont think he do all he was sold on doing, can he be successful? Or is teh fact that he is not Bush good enough?

[JohnnyD]

I never thought Obama would be some Uniter. I had hopes that he may be a bit less blatantly partisan in the ways he addresses the Republican side of political situations, but even that hasn't happened.

However, I don't vote for someone with the disillusion that every single item that was campaigned on is going to happen. No political candidate accomplishes everything that they campaign for.

[RIJIMMY]

so you were just hoping for the high taxes and big spending part?

[Nebe]

Change is feared by many regardless of what that change might me.

[RIJIMMY]

A philosophy I am constantly spreading at work "change is not good, improvement is"

[Nebe]

he is going to improve things.

WITH YOUR TAX $$

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

so you were just hoping for the high taxes and big spending part?

For someone who consistently tries to say that he doesn't twist things...

[spence]

This thread doesn't make a lot of sense.

RIJIMMY entitles it "Bush was a divider" I'm guessing to make the point that Obama is really much more divisive and we're all a bunch of hypocrities and he has the polling data to prove it.

What this article seems to try to hide though, is that the actual Pew poll is in context of FIRST YEAR PRESIDENTS.

Here's the real poll from Pew:

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1178/pol...roval-historic

Bush campaigned as a uniter and to some degree was (for example working with Ted Kennedy on the No Child Left Behind Act), and had very high approvals after 9/11 to the end of his first year.

It wasn't really until after the start of the Iraq war when the GOP used terrorism issues to win Congress by painting Democrats as unpatriotic and defeatists.

This is where Bush really inherited the label of a divider by the mainstream.

By contrast, after only two months, Obama's support from Dems isn't much different than Bush's support by Republians. The difference is a 9 point gap in the opposition party, which makes perfect sense as Bush had up to an 88% approval after 9/11, so clearly he had very high democratic support.

I know, I know...I'm just rationalizing things. But I'm afraid that this time the proof is in the numbers.

RIJIMMY's assertion just doesn't compute.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

ok - school me
What has Obama done to unite the country? What has he done that is not 100% out of the Dem playbook. Zippo - so far I've seen nothing but a tax and spend Dem.
For every problem:
1. economy
2. health care
3. education
4. infrastructure

there is one solution, tax more, spend more. So, because of his pure Dem approach, he is continuing to polarize the country. Have you seen any creative, new solutions from this guy?
you guys think Im some wacky right winger, I'll hop on the Obama bandwagon as soon as there is one idea that is feasiable and does not require taxing people, just ONE

[Raven]

burning bush

it was in the bible

he was a wrangler
turned word mangler

worthy of the strangler
now jailed in obscurity

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

ok - school me

Ok

What has Obama done to unite the country?

He just was elected the 44th US President with a majority of the popular vote and the electoral college...and has a 60% approval rating even though by your own admission we're going to hell in a hand-basket.

What has he done that is not 100% out of the Dem playbook. Zippo - so far I've seen nothing but a tax and spend Dem.

Aside from the concessions he made to include the largest tax cuts in history (282 Billion) for the first two years of his Stimulus package?

And where he appointed a Treasury Secretary with tremendous Republican appeal. Do you want me to post the quotes?

Or how about asking a Republican Defense Secretary to stay on the job (against his will) because he thought it was the right thing to do for our troops?

Have you seen any creative, new solutions from this guy?

Like a national plan to make health records electronic that creates jobs and saves money long term?

Like applying pragmatic solutions to foreign policy problems instead of divisive (wait, isn't that what this thread's about?) rhetoric that leads to a net loss of Democracy worldwide?

Etc...

you guys think Im some wacky right winger

No, you actually remind me more of the anti-Bush clones you claim to so despise.

-spence

[buckman]

Spence, you sound like the Presidents PR man. When I see Obama stand up to the Pelosi, Reed, Frank and the like instead of kissing thier collective a$$es, then is a partisan. His words can impress the sheep but his actions show his true side.

[scottw]

Obama cannot gain favor with one group politically without trashing another, he gains popularity with whomever he is speaking to by attacking someone else, creating straw dogs and spouting outrageous rehetoric knowing that he will not be questioned which is why he spent the last week trashing America in front of the world...he leads by dividing...the hypnotized just nod in agreement...it might be wearing thin on some though...




I'm so confused now....
I thought that only right wing whack jobs were troubled that the messiah's birth certificate was sealed...don't all presidents do this?..you know.... just in case
and college records...those too...just in case....
and only conservative loons would be troubled that our President would bow to the Saudi King, I mean, all American Presidents do that, right? we apparently forgot that that New York Times had a cow when Clinton simply nodded to the Japanese leader...but this is the "ONE" and thou shalt not be critical...EVER!

from Salon.com(hardly a vast right wing propoganda website)
Camille Paglia- Salon.com

"There has been one needless gaffe after another -- from the president's tacky appearance on a late-night comedy show to the kitsch gifts given to the British prime minister, followed by the sweater-clad first lady's over-familiarity with the queen and culminating in the jaw-dropping spectacle of a president of the United States bowing to the king of Saudi Arabia. Why was protest about the latter indignity confined to conservatives? The silence of the major media was a disgrace. But I attribute that embarrassing incident not to Obama's sinister or naive appeasement of the Muslim world but to a simple if costly breakdown in basic command of protocol.

Video: President Obama bowing to Saudi King Abdullah during the G-20 summit


Enough already! These slips are worsening the anti-Obama backlash, which began with the administration's bungled handling of the grotesquely swollen stimulus package. Conservatives seem deliriously drunk with their cartoon picture of Obama, to whom is glibly attributed every pathology in the book. Yes, there were ambiguities about Obama's birth certificate that have never been satisfactorily resolved. And the embargo on Obama's educational records remains troubling. But I am still waiting for hard evidence about the host of other charges that are continually being hammered against him -- from his alleged fidelity to the crypto-tactics of Chicago leftist Saul Alinsky to the questions raised by right-wingers about the production of Obama's two memoirs. Out of respect for the presidency, conservatives need to put up or shut up about these issues."

hey Camille...he is a cartoon, a teleprompter(Ok, sorry, he's using the 52" tv so you can't call him that anymore) reading, nipple flashing, Camel smoking, America blaming, dictator hugging, race baiting, trillion and trillion spending, class envy promoting CARTOON...and he isn't funny...

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by scottw

1. The silence of the major media was a disgrace. But I attribute that embarrassing incident not to Obama's sinister or naive appeasement of the Muslim world but to a simple if costly breakdown in basic command of protocol.
2. Yes, there were ambiguities about Obama's birth certificate that have never been satisfactorily resolved. And the embargo on Obama's educational records remains troubling.

1. showing common courtesy to a king of another country isn't acceptable? Especially with Saudi Arabia! Bush and his family was beyond chummy with them and you have a problem with that! do you expect him to flip him the bird and walk away!?!? Talk about double standards about the Saudi's....

2. Yup, he's not American, and turns out he never even went to college. Oh well

BTW, what kind of stuff are you smoking? you may want to ease off the bong... it's making you paranoid....

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Spence, you sound like the Presidents PR man. When I see Obama stand up to the Pelosi, Reed, Frank and the like instead of kissing thier collective a$$es, then is a partisan. His words can impress the sheep but his actions show his true side.

No, I'm simply trying to provide some additional information that refutes RIJIMMY's black and white arguments.

As for standing up to the Dem leadership. There already have been many issues between Obama and Congress. Just because Obama ultimately signs legislation doesn't mean that he hasn't stood up to them. Even the Stimulus package contained concessions to Republicans that Obama wanted over the House Dems. Usually most Bills contain compramise language that's negoitated ahead of time. A Bill probably isn't going to go before the President unless their damn sure it's going to get the pen.

Considering that Obama was elected as a Democrat, I doubt you're going to see any real fireworks, although the stories of the Administration already working to help companies get around executive pay limitations imposed by Congress could come pretty close.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

didnt only 3 republicans vote FOR the stimulus? If you have the majority Spence, you dont need to work across party lines. Whihc gets back to my initial point. Obama has united the Dems only, not the country. Its one-sided. Which is EXACTLY what Bush was blamed for.

[RIJIMMY]

lets see, what type of bi-partisan support did his budget have?

The Senate and the House of Representatives passed similar versions of Obama's $3.5 trillion budget for 2010 last week. The budget didn't receive a single Republican vote in either chamber. Both chambers will meet after Easter recess to produce a final budget.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

1. showing common courtesy to a king of another country isn't acceptable? Especially with Saudi Arabia! Bush and his family was beyond chummy with them and you have a problem with that! do you expect him to flip him the bird and walk away!?!? Talk about double standards about the Saudi's....

2. Yup, he's not American, and turns out he never even went to college. Oh well

BTW, what kind of stuff are you smoking? you may want to ease off the bong... it's making you paranoid....

You can't reason with nitwits. He's probably one of the ignorant fools that bought into the "Obama's middle name is Hussain? He must be a muslim."

[Cpt. Crunch]

Why should Obama have to bring the republicans along at all? Its not like Bush was all worried about dems supporting his policies. If you disagreed with the Bush policies you were labeled as "anti-American". We won the election by a considerable margin. So now we get a chance to do things our way. If you don't like it, move to Canada. Obama was elected fair and square. This is a democracy. YOU LOST! GET OVER IT! This is what happens when 1 party screws things up for 8 years. If things go as bad as all of you think it will with these new policies, then you will be back in power in less then 4 years. Be patient and stop the whining.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Crunch

Why should Obama have to bring the republicans along at all? Its not like Bush was all worried about dems supporting his policies. If you disagreed with the Bush policies you were labeled as "anti-American". We won the election by a considerable margin. So now we get a chance to do things our way. If you don't like it, move to Canada. Obama was elected fair and square. This is a democracy. YOU LOST! GET OVER IT! This is what happens when 1 party screws things up for 8 years. If things go as bad as all of you think it will with these new policies, then you will be back in power in less then 4 years. Be patient and stop the whining.

I'm not the one that said Obama was a uniter, the dems did. Sorry if I expect him to live up to his expectations. Its obvious none of the people that elected him do.
And PS, if all the people that dont like it move to Canada, whose gonna pay all those taxes?

[JohnnyD]

John Stewart put it best last night, with regards to Conservatives incessant complaints about every aspect of the Administration:

"We live in a democratic society, with democratically elected officials. Your side lost - it's suppose to taste like a sh!t taco."

[RIJIMMY]

my tax dollars sure taste oh so good to you.

So all the uniter stuff was a bunch of bull$hit, oh well.

[spence]

Perhaps I missed something during the campaign, but who exactly said that Obama was going to unite the two parties?

Just because you're not a "uniter" doesn't make you a "divider".

RIJIMMY sure seems to think so though.

From the JAX airport where it's 70 and sunny
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Cool Beans]

People seem confused here, when they said Obama would be a uniter, they were most likely referring to him uniting and strengthening our ties with Europe and the Muslim World. So far, he is off to a great start. Even with a few minor faux pas, he has made positive impressions with several countries that were not our best friends. I believe he wants to unite more of the world and increase the power of the UN. Yeah, he may have to give up a few of our liberties, and kiss a few butts while apologizing for our arrogance over the past 8 years. He is living up to all that I expected of him..... that's why I voted against him.... but too many were caught up in the illusion of hope and change......
He will change America, I just hope for the better, but I fear the worst......

[RIROCKHOUND]

CoolBeans...
You mention the arrogance of the last 8 years.
Did you approve of GWB's job? and were you OK with the direction this country moved during his terms?

Jim, I would like to see more across the aisle workings from both sides, but I heard a great NPR segment by one of the talking heads who basically said in the end the American public only cares if the job is done, not if it was bi-partisan... we'll see how the job ends up....

[Cool Beans]

Problems I had with Bush:
1. Spent way too much money
2. The last year or 2 he seemed to go crazy wasting money.
3. I have mixed feelings with Iraq/Afghanistan. We waited too long to hit Afghanistan and could have handled Iraq better. We tipped our hand way too early, giving them almost a month to get rid of any wmd's. Don't say there weren't any, friends of mine gathered up several hundred 40mm rounds loaded with mustard gas or similar nerve agents. I've seen plenty of satellite images of suspect convoys moving across borders to know they did have em and moved them prior to us attacking.
4. He was for that immigration bill that almost got passed.
5. After 9/11 he was doing great, but seemed to use it to push other crap through.
6.No child left behind........

There are lots of things he made mistakes on, but we should never apologize for being "arrogant" in protecting our country and standing up for America. We seem and are arrogant, because this is the best, strongest and most free country in the world. We shouldn't bow to anyone. If you cross America, it should be known that us arrogant a-holes will kick the living crap out of you.

We seem as a country, too scared to be ourselves and stand up for our beliefs, because we are worried about offending someone. That's part of free speech, you will always offend someone, and it's their God given right to not agree with you. Americans seem to have lost our backbone on things like this. Obama is very PC oriented, it seems he will say exactly what his audience of the moment wants to hear.

[RIJIMMY]

Im with the beans.