Shouldnt there be...

[piemma]

I am probably wrong. I'm not a fish biologist. But I know that I hear this same stuff every year and every year by June 1 everyone is smiling. It only April for God sake and we had a long cold winter, as almost all of the country did. If we are not catching fish by mid May then I'll start to worry.

[Raven]

i mean the reproduction rate due to pollution in the Chesapeake bay and subsequent disease
is having an undesirable affect on numbers....

but the cold temps hanging around has changed ....dramatically

every two years .... spring has moved up by 1 week

i used to be able to plant my peas every year on Saint Patrick's day
not any more....

there's a 30 day difference now

or roughly 4 weeks for spring to arrive

for ground temps and water temps...
so ADJUST YOUR CALENDER

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by piemma

I am probably wrong. I'm not a fish biologist. But I know that I hear this same stuff every year and every year by June 1 everyone is smiling. It only April for God sake and we had a long cold winter, as almost all of the country did. If we are not catching fish by mid May then I'll start to worry.

Paul, just my experience that by now people are nailing 50+ schoolies all over the place, you know the spots. It seems like Pete G is seeing fish so that makes me feel a little better. Who knows, bait moves, things change.
2 years ago I caught so many bluefish in Sept and Oct, it was disgusting, last year less than a dozen. I'm not worried about the bluefish pop, things changed. Clammer and others have been preaching doom and I was curious to see how this spring went and so far seems slow for the dinks. I have no clue, but it worries me.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Paul, just my experience that by now people are nailing 50+ schoolies all over the place, you know the spots. It seems like Pete G is seeing fish so that makes me feel a little better. Who knows, bait moves, things change.
2 years ago I caught so many bluefish in Sept and Oct, it was disgusting, last year less than a dozen. I'm not worried about the bluefish pop, things changed. Clammer and others have been preaching doom and I was curious to see how this spring went and so far seems slow for the dinks. I have no clue, but it worries me.

Don't you think that the people catching 50+ schoolies a day might be as big a problem as the seals and cormorants? Even with the best handling, there has to be some release mortality.

I've never targeted schoolies in huge numbers in the spring. Holdover or fresh, they've either spent a stressful winter or undertaken a long migration. I know that everyone is itchy to go after a long dry period, but the bigger fish will be along soon.

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by piemma

I am probably wrong. I'm not a fish biologist. But I know that I hear this same stuff every year and every year by June 1 everyone is smiling. It only April for God sake and we had a long cold winter, as almost all of the country did. If we are not catching fish by mid May then I'll start to worry.

Hey, Paul - I'm old and old people are notoriously impatient...besides being grumpy...

[turkeyslayer]

Nobody can look up a bulls rear end any farther than the next guy. speculation doesn't solve a thing. Every year is different from the last; you just enjoy what you get and adjust your style and location to fit that change. One year theyr'e on this side of the rock and the next year they are on the otherside at a different tide. Guys get spoiled and forget how to work for fish. I bet if we looked at the minutes from surf clubs in the early years they were also speculating about the end of all things to come.

Get a grip here fellows!

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by turkeyslayer

Nobody can look up a bulls rear end any farther than the next guy. speculation doesn't solve a thing. Every year is different from the last; you just enjoy what you get and adjust your style and location to fit that change. One year theyr'e on this side of the rock and the next year they are on the otherside at a different tide. Guys get spoiled and forget how to work for fish. I bet if we looked at the minutes from surf clubs in the early years they were also speculating about the end of all things to come.

Get a grip here fellows!

I guess its safe to assume you dont keep a fishing log.

[Clammer]

Mike P

what you said is exactly what I mean >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alot of guys don,t [bother] with schoolies ....which means they don,t see the steady decline in this fishery ........ they won,t get concerned until they are having trouble getting large .....


& as far as old clubs .... pretty much the only ones that kept records were the one on the old Schaffer contest & to some degree / on only local touraments . back then ...... with a 16" size limit & no daily limit // no one lept score unless [again in was in a tournament ;

if you took a survey of all the schoolie monster fisherman & flyrodders & charter boats/ guides than make a living putting clients on shallow water fish , numbers, etc & they all replied truthfully ....................... maybe you would realize this is a bigger issue ..than fish the other side of the rock .
Every single fisherman that I know that is still fishing & were seasoned fisherman in the crash of the 80,s / will tell you the same story ;
Damn // how many times can a sledge hammer bounce off a head before it realizes its getting smashed ><><><

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Crafty Angler

Hey, Paul - I'm old and old people are notoriously impatient...besides being grumpy...

Chuck, it will be OK, I think.
Jim White has a post up on his site and it's real gloom. He may be correct. I lived through the moratorium and maybe we are getting ready for another collapse. I have a huge amount of respect for Jim and what he knows but I am still thinking I will wait and see what's happening about May 15th. if I'm not getting into decent fish by then well we all should start worrying.

[Addicted]

Bay schoolies are down in numbers and arrival dates for the last 4 years for me. Arrival date for my spots have been delayed by a week each year for the last 3 years. And the number of fish for my spots is way off. I know bait and water temps as well as other factors could be effecting my spots but I know what I see and I know it has me worried.

[Moses]

In years past (not last year), I would typically start fishing a couple rivers between Mattapoisett and Wareham in mid-late April. According to my records, I would always be into schoolies, 12-18" by third week in April. BY fourth week a little bigger to 24". Then I'd switch over to canal fishing by Mother's Day with the first keeper usually coming 3rd week of May.

Last year I decided to work Buzzards Bay area hard in the boat. I launched april 13th and checked every bay and estuary on both sides for many many hours. Nothing with no signs of life. Went a couple times the last week in April and the rivers/estuaries were yielding small schoolies pretty consistently.

First weekend in May, lots of bait, stripers and birds so action was more noticeable. Even caught a couple small keepers in the 28-30" range. I took friday 5/16 off and fished friday - sunday extensively and Buzzards Bay erupted. Tons of bait, stripers, birds and plenty of keepers.

I think were in the same pattern and expect things to start opening up this weekend thru next weekend. Soon guys......

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Moses

In years past (not last year), I would typically start fishing a couple rivers between Mattapoisett and Wareham in mid-late April. According to my records, I would always be into schoolies, 12-18" by third week in April. BY fourth week a little bigger to 24". Then I'd switch over to canal fishing by Mother's Day with the first keeper usually coming 3rd week of May.

Last year I decided to work Buzzards Bay area hard in the boat. I launched april 13th and checked every bay and estuary on both sides for many many hours. Nothing with no signs of life. Went a couple times the last week in April and the rivers/estuaries were yielding small schoolies pretty consistently.

First weekend in May, lots of bait, stripers and birds so action was more noticeable. Even caught a couple small keepers in the 28-30" range. I took friday 5/16 off and fished friday - sunday extensively and Buzzards Bay erupted. Tons of bait, stripers, birds and plenty of keepers.

I think were in the same pattern and expect things to start opening up this weekend thru next weekend. Soon guys......

Finally!!! Some sanity!!!!

[Mike P]

There was an excellent spawning year in 2001, and very good spawning years in 2003, 2005 and 2007. The 2001 fish are just reaching spawning age now, and the later classes are still too small to legally harvest everywhere outside of the bay areas of Maryland.

Where'd they all go, if they're gone?

And from all reports the Hudson has been churning out record spawns for almost 20 years, since they cleaned it up and eliminated haul seining in NY.

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Where'd they all go, if they're gone?

Hmmm....I dunno, Mike - fish and chips, maybe...

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by piemma

Finally!!! Some sanity!!!!

Paul, respecfully, I think you're missing the point. You're talking about "decent" fish or the fish that arrive in mid-May or the almost keepers Moses is referring to. My observation along with Clammer and JW is - Where are the dinks? Those are the future of this fishery and are usually around in massive numbers by now. My own observations seem to line up with what some of the old timers are saying(no offense). I'm not saying the sky is falling, maybe its no big deal. But I'd like to hear that someone somewhere is seeing acres of schoolies.

[bart]

I think this first week of the month will give up 40+ fish days. just need SW winds and some sun, which we've been getting a lot of lately....

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Paul, respecfully, I think you're missing the point. You're talking about "decent" fish or the fish that arrive in mid-May or the almost keepers Moses is referring to. My observation along with Clammer and JW is - Where are the dinks? Those are the future of this fishery and are usually around in massive numbers by now. My own observations seem to line up with what some of the old timers are saying(no offense). I'm not saying the sky is falling, maybe its no big deal. But I'd like to hear that someone somewhere is seeing acres of schoolies.

Considering I'm not fishing right now at this moment, that's a good indication that the East Bay is loaded with dinks.

-spence

[piemma]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Paul, respecfully, I think you're missing the point. You're talking about "decent" fish or the fish that arrive in mid-May or the almost keepers Moses is referring to. My observation along with Clammer and JW is - Where are the dinks? Those are the future of this fishery and are usually around in massive numbers by now. My own observations seem to line up with what some of the old timers are saying(no offense). I'm not saying the sky is falling, maybe its no big deal. But I'd like to hear that someone somewhere is seeing acres of schoolies.

Ok Jim. I will sit on the side and keep quiet. I just think that I have been through this before and in 2 weeks it's fine with schoolies all over. I really think the weather has had a lot to do with the lack of small fish. NE winds keep the fish out and the cold water in. I am sure there has beeen some attrition due to slaughter in Maryland, NC, etc. But has Mike P pointed out, our fish, by and large, come from the Hudson. Where did they go? They certainly weren't killed in Maryland because they don't go south.

Let's just wait and see what is happening on 5/15.