The stimulus is working!

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

Cow farts help plants and trees grow, they do not add to global warming!

Cow farts contain a lot of methane which is a significant greenhouse gas. I've read some studies where they estimate 15-20% of greenhouse gases are from livestock alone.

As for helping plants grow, anything can kill you in the right quantities. Remember as well that as emissions rise there's incredible deforestation going on globally.

Carbon monoxide from cars do contribute but without CO2 life would not exist. CO2 emissions have increased significantly over the past 10 years while global temps have leveled off and actually went down. I am a strong believer that solar activity is the main factor behind this. It is natural climate shifting, it has happened many times before. We are starting a period of global cooling not warming.

This has been discussed here before, but a look at the last few years doesn't show the trend that's causing concern. Yes, it does look like we're in a period of global cooling, but it's a short 10 year cycle. If it follows the pattern of the past century we'll see a very sharp temperature rise at the end of the cycle that will set new average records.

We should be good stewards of our environment, but handcuffing our industry, we empower China and give them that much more control of our economy. Tax them enough for their emissions and they will leave.

Which is exactly why many have been looking for a global solution that treats everybody equally. Also, you can't have it both ways. Being a good steward doesn't mean you ignore what is still considered pretty compelling evidence that man is influencing climate change.

As for the Stimulus, less than 10% of the stimulus has been spent! Most of it wont be seen until 2011-2012. Unemployment is through the roof and average hours worked per worker is 32hrs. That means many people are either forced to work part time or forced furlough days. We are far from the bottom of this and the Stimulus is a total waste of time and money!

I would think that if you don't like the bill you'd be happy that we're not going to spend the bulk of the money up front. Perhaps it can be allocated towards better uses, or better yet, not spent at all.

-spence

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by spence

I would think that if you don't like the bill you'd be happy that we're not going to spend the bulk of the money up front. Perhaps it can be allocated towards better uses, or better yet, not spent at all.

-spence

I Strongly believe that it is set this way on purpose, so the bulk will be spent during the 2 years prior to the next presidential election, so the masses will see the effect then and it will be in their minds when it comes time to vote.

It was such a big emergency to get it passed so quickly, and then we spend a tiny percentage of it now? It was set up this way for political reasons, not economical reasons.

Also, a lot of politicians that helped Obama, got a lot of their pet projects into that bill. kind of like a "thank you present".

Not Spent At All? Once the government has it, it may not be spent on its intended purpose, but IT WILL BE SPENT! No freaking chance in hell it will come back to the taxpayers!

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

I Strongly believe that it is set this way on purpose, so the bulk will be spent during the 2 years prior to the next presidential election, so the masses will see the effect then and it will be in their minds when it comes time to vote.

That's a perfectly good political argument, irony intended.

The flip side of course is that you shouldn't spend money until it's been well planned out. Ongoing civil infrastructure projects (i.e. shovel ready) were a good first target as most communities are ready to go but just lack funding.

Also, a lot of politicians that helped Obama, got a lot of their pet projects into that bill. kind of like a "thank you present".

Certainly the Dems took the opportunity to spend money on projects they've not been able to for quite some time. I would have liked to see a lot of this eliminated and the actual stim bill be about 1/2 as large. I did think doing something was in order.

Not Spent At All? Once the government has it, it may not be spent on its intended purpose, but IT WILL BE SPENT! No freaking chance in hell it will come back to the taxpayers!

My guess is that if the Republicans eliminate the Dem super majority in the mid-term elections, which is very likely, there will be room to make some changes. I doubt they'd be able to kill the rest of the spending (as Obama would simply VETO the new bill) but they will have the muscle to negotiate how it's appropriated. Obama will be looking for a second term and will need to cooperate more with the GOP so he doesn't get boxed in...just like Clinton did.

-spence

[Cool Beans]

hmmmmm..... Spence Lewinski and ElRush Beans seem to almost agree on that last post.

Can't agree on man made global warming/cooling, but seem to agree on the Stimulus Bill for the most part.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

hmmmmm..... Spence Lewinski and ElRush Beans seem to almost agree on that last post.

Can't agree on man made global warming/cooling, but seem to agree on the Stimulus Bill for the most part.

El Beans...
does your opinion of climate change (dislike the term global warming..) come from an extensive review of the scientific literature?
Just curious...
show some of the data or articles you are basing your opinion on in a new thread so we don't hijack this one...

[justplugit]

The stimulus already has 1 Billion earmarked for climate research.

On top of that,the Cap and Trade Bill would tax industry and energy users, us,
with additional taxes estimated at a 19% increase on home electricity alone, forget about gas and oil..
We are supposed to set the example for the rest of the world, like China, India and Third World countries are going to follow.

With the little manufacturing we have now being taxed to the hilt, they will run, not walk, to other countries where they won't be taxed and there goes the loss of who knows how many more jobs.

This whole thing is a runaway train, act in haste repent at leisure. Let's see what the 1 Billion stimulus will do first ,before we go over the point of no return.
The whole stimulus plan was based on emergency, emergency now we are being told by some scientists, not all, we are headed for climate doomsday unless we do something yesterday.

Let's hope some of the 1 Billion is spent on researching machines that could extract carbon dioxide from the air as proposed by Wallace Broecker, Columbia University Oceanographer.
Worth a try before killing our economy completely.
Slow and steady.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Let's hope some of the 1 Billion is spent on researching machines that could extract carbon dioxide from the air as proposed by Wallace Broecker, Columbia University Oceanographer.
Worth a try before killing our economy completely.
Slow and steady.

Broecker does have some good ideas...
I'm sure many are being researched...

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

El Beans...
does your opinion of climate change (dislike the term global warming..) come from an extensive review of the scientific literature?
Just curious...
show some of the data or articles you are basing your opinion on in a new thread so we don't hijack this one...

???????

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

???????

Good luck getting actual supported facts and not a emotional, from the gut opinion.

Anyway, Cool Beans is too busying driving around in his truck waiting for Palin to speak again so he can find me laying in traffic.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Just curious...
show some of the data or articles you are basing your opinion on in a new thread so we don't hijack this one...

Don't need scientific literature, Rock, have you been outside at all this year?....if 1998 was the hottest year on record and we have far more CO2 in the atmosphere 10 or 11 years later and Al Gore's giant graph on Oprah recently with the gigantic arrow pointing straight upward is correct...then how is it that we are consistently 20-25 degrees BELOW the recored temps every single day, most of which were set in the 30's and 40's.. if Al Gore is right then this is simply impossible!! I pull up the NBC 10 weather chart every day which shows high/low... average high/low and record high/low and we are consistently under....HOW!!!....WHY!!! you only prefer "climate change" because it covers your ass either way...here's a bulletin...THE CLIMATE IS ALWAYS CHANGING...always has, always will...
I should not be out fishing at night in July and freezing my ass off...but it's worth it
if this is the result of GLOBAL WARMING...bring it on!

I'm worried about the guys that were posting here over the holiday weeekend rather than fishing