The stimulus is working!

[RIROCKHOUND]

Nice schoolies Scott.

Man-made climate change instead of global warming is the more scientific term, because it doesn't warm everywhere.
And yes, it changes all the time, but it boils down to the rate and amounts of change we are seeing in a relatively short time, that isn't seen in the historical, or geological past.

Remember, weather patterns and climate are two vastly different things.
This summer has been screwed up by a pervasive shift in the jet stream that has been pumping low pressure systems at us non-stop.

I just find it completely illogical how people can think we have zero impact on the earths climate.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

I just find it completely illogical how people can think we have zero impact on the earths climate.

noone is saying this Rock, Australia has figured it out, much of Europe is figuring it out, China and India just gave the middle finger...this is "Cap and Screw"...cap capitalism and screw the populus..nothing to do with the environment but a global assault on capitalism and it's fine because while these people can certainly lie and decieve they can't control the weather no matter how much they tax the crap out of people...yet another overreach and nature will not cooperate with the doomsday propoganda , and Al Gore is a compulsive liar and a remarkable hypocrite

[scottw]

[QUOTE=RIROCKHOUND;699146]

This summer has been screwed up by a pervasive shift in the jet stream that has been pumping low pressure systems at us non-stop.

Australia too? just call it "climate change" instead of "global warming" blame humans and commence massive taxation because that always solves everything

Minus 13 degrees - the coldest it's been in April
Brett Dutschke, Wednesday April 29, 2009 - 14:58 EST
A new Australian record was set early this morning, a temperature of minus 13 degrees, at Charlotte Pass on the Snowy Mountains.

This is the lowest temperature recorded anywhere in Australia in April and is 13 below the average. Nearby at Perisher it dipped to minus 11 degrees and at the top of Thredbo it dipped to minus 10.

Across the border, on the Victorian Alps April records were broken at Mt Hotham where it chilled to minus eight degrees and Mt Buller and Falls Creek where it got as low as minus seven.

A few other locations set April low temperature records also. In Tasmania Lake Leake was as cold as minus six, Sheffield and Dover both reached minus one and Flinders island got to zero. Hobart had its coldest April night in 46 years, recording a low of 1.7 degrees, seven below average.

[spence]

Global climate change is a fraud because it was cold in Australia.

Yea Bryan, he's really got you there

-spence

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by spence

Global climate change is a fraud because it was cold in Australia.

Yea Bryan, he's really got you there

-spence

It goes right in line with my opinion of how the average American follows any news item.

They perceive what is happening right this moment, and that observation is fact. Have an unseasonably cool month in June - there's no way Global Warming exists. Longer than typical Indian Summer in February - Global Warming is going to murder our children tomorrow.

The average person doesn't have the capability to look at trends - here-and-now emotional responses are all many are capable of.

Perfect example is the direct corollary some people use when comparing what the stock market has done *today* and how the economy is doing. Market goes up, and the economy is improving. Next day the Market goes down, and we're headed for a depression.

There's very little critical thinking, just single observations then comments.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Global climate change is a fraud because it was cold in Australia.

Yea Bryan, he's really got you there

-spence

as usual Spence, you completely invent a fraudulent statement, where is your integrity? "Global Climate Change" is occuring all of the time(this may be alien to you) it began changing as soon as the atmosphere was formed and will continue until a wayward meteor destroys the planet unless we do it first.....the POINT is that 1998 was deemed the hottest year ever and has been followed by year after year where the "culprits" of supposed global warming have increased every year in the atmosphere and the planet has cooled????...I cited Australia to show that not only here but across the planet(even on the other side) RECORD cold temps for extended periods are constantly being recorded ...this cannot possibly be occuring if "THE PLANET HAS A FEVER" that began ten years ago when the planet was the hottest that it has ever been and it was "only going to get worse" ...NOT...it's that simple, you can throw out all of your gobligook but you cannot explain this fact....you are perpetuating the greatest SCAM in the planet's history...SHAME ON YOU!

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by scottw

[COLOR="Blue"]as usual Spence, you completely invent a fraudulent statement, where is your integrity

fraud (frôd) n.
1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
2. A piece of trickery; a trick.
3.
a. One that defrauds; a cheat.
b. One who assumes a false pose; an impostor.

How exactly?

Anyone can find specific locations where temperatures have been statistically low for a period of time. It doesn't change the fact that the Average Global Temperature is up.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

How exactly?

Anyone can find specific locations where temperatures have been statistically low for a period of time. It doesn't change the fact that the Average Global Temperature is up.

Jimmy, time to move onto "another(the next) stimulus"...should be a winner

JD...10 years after the planet began burning up there should be NO record low temperatures ANYWHERE...the problem with liars (Al Gore) is that they have to constantly lie to cover up the big intitial lie, while it's be immensely profitable for him, it is global deceit and will be proven so, the AGW nuts are just hoping to shove their agend up your butt as quickly as possible so that they can take credit as the cooling continues for magically fixing everything as we all shiver because oil is banned and the windmill won't turn

you must have a really high IQ ?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by scottw

JD...10 years after the planet began burning up there should be NO record low temperatures ANYWHERE...the problem with liars (Al Gore) is that they have to constantly lie to cover up the big intitial lie, while it's be immensely profitable for him, it is global deceit and will be proven so, the AGW nuts are just hoping to shove their agend up your butt as quickly as possible so that they can take credit as the cooling continues for magically fixing everything as we all shiver because oil is banned and the windmill won't turn

you must have a really high IQ ?

10 years? In global climate terms, 10 years isn't even a speck on the radar.

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

as usual Spence, you completely invent a fraudulent statement, where is your integrity? "Global Climate Change" is occuring all of the time(this may be alien to you) it began changing as soon as the atmosphere was formed and will continue until a wayward meteor destroys the planet unless we do it first.....the POINT is that 1998 was deemed the hottest year ever and has been followed by year after year where the "culprits" of supposed global warming have increased every year in the atmosphere and the planet has cooled????...

You sure got me Dr. Science. I guess the fact that 2008 saw one of the warmest months on record and that the yearly averages look like this:



Seem to support your sceintific theory that the Earth is indeed entering a dramatic period of cooling contrary to increasing output of greenhouse gasses.

I'm guessing you either stopped your education at the 8th grade, or really didn't pay attention in high school statistics.

I cited Australia to show that not only here but across the planet(even on the other side) RECORD cold temps for extended periods are constantly being recorded

...this cannot possibly be occuring if "THE PLANET HAS A FEVER" that began ten years ago when the planet was the hottest that it has ever been and it was "only going to get worse" ...NOT...it's that simple, you can throw out all of your gobligook but you cannot explain this fact....you are perpetuating the greatest SCAM in the planet's history...SHAME ON YOU!

Only an idiot would measure climate change with a 10 year sample, or perhaps someone out to ignore science and make a political point.

RIROCKHOUND sure called that one.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

[COLOR="Black"]

Only an idiot would measure climate change with a 10 year sample, or perhaps someone out to ignore science and make a political point.

RIROCKHOUND sure called that one.

-spence

you have it backward, this is all about politics and has very little to do with science, is Al Gore a Politician of a Scientist?...why is the solution massive government take over of industry and meddling into every aspect of our lives together with massive taxation??? Because this is nothing more that a STATIST tool to acquire more power...

there are an awful lot of PHD idiots running around that dipute this data and "SCIENCE", but just like welfare, it's become a cottage industry for the left....time will tell, just hope we can recover from the damage that will be done ....

BTW..it's GLOBAL WARMING, climate change is a cop out, this began as global warming, didn't you see the movie?... and is not new, the left has run with coming ice ages and then the global burning up every 25 years for the last century, they've tried this crap before, just can't seem to make up their minds...


NOPE, WE"RE SCREWED....OBAMA RULES THE PLANET TEMPERATURES
Philip Webster, Political Editor, in L’Aquila
President Obama and other leaders backed historic new targets for tackling global warming last night in an agreement designed to pave the way for a world deal in the autumn.

For the first time, America and the other seven richest economies agreed to the goal of keeping the world’s average temperature from rising more than 2C (3.6F).

They also agreed to cut greenhouse gas emissions by 80 per cent by 2050 as they strove for a worldwide deal at Copenhagen in December.
better start "eliminating" a lot of people

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by scottw

you have it backward, this is all about politics and has very little to do with science, is Al Gore a Politician of a Scientist?

I don't know why you continue to reference Al Gore. Aside from by you, he hasn't been referenced once in this post. And no, I didn't see the movie.

You, sir, are conflating the topic.

As a note, a PhD doesn't immediately make you the definitive source for reliable information.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

You sure got me Dr. Science. I guess the fact that 2008 saw one of the warmest months on record and that the yearly averages look like this:



Seem to support your sceintific theory that the Earth is indeed entering a dramatic period of cooling contrary to increasing output of greenhouse gasses.

I'm guessing you either stopped your education at the 8th grade, or really didn't pay attention in high school statistics.


Only an idiot would measure climate change with a 10 year sample, or perhaps someone out to ignore science and make a political point.

RIROCKHOUND sure called that one.

-spence

Actually, there are many such graphs of varying and similar time periods that conflict with yours. And there are various "interpretations" of your and other graphs. There is an immense amount of information and chatter, pro and con Global Warming/Climate Change. You can pick and choose whatever suits your agenda, leaving out contradictions and make a solid appearing argument either way. Most of the studies actually contradict your position.

In geologic time, 120 years is also too short to prove anymore than what occured in that 120 years, wherein, by the way, man-made use of fossil fuels were not a problem for half the graph. Also, the beginning of the graph enters on a downstroke indicating a higher level of warming before MMGW. It also shows another drop and leveling of temps at the time when MMGW might reasonably begin to show some effect. Then a big 20 YEAR spike and then the beginning of the present temp drop into a predicted 30 year cooling. This graph has no significant indication of Man Made Global Warming.

Global temps peaked in 1998 and have been cooling each year since. The warming and cooling were predictable due to HUNDREDS OF YEARS of historical trends and observation of the impact of variations in solar activity on global temperature. Global temps are falling even though atmospheric CO2 levels continue to increase. Antarctica had the most ice ever recorded at the end of 2008. When adding the April 2009 ice extent at both polls together, there was the same amount of polar ice as 30 years ago. According to NASA, the earth's oceans have been cooling since 2003 and may be entering a 30 year cooling period.

Here are excerpts from a few abstracts in peer reviewed studies and/or major scientific journal articles disputing Man-Made Gobal Warming (CAPS are mine):
(1) "Some researchers say the data make SOLAR VARIABILITY the LEADING HYPOTHESIS to explain the 1500 YEAR oscillation of climate seen since the last ice age, and that the sun could also add to the greenhouse warming of the next few years."
(2) "A review of the recent referred literature FAILS TO CONFIRM quantitatively that CO2 radiative forcing was the prime mover in the changes in temperature, ice sheet volume, and related climatic variables in the glacial and interglacial episodes of the past 650,000 years . . . atmospheric CO2 variations generally FOLLOW changes in temperature and other climatic variables rather than preceding them."
(3) "The authors indentify and describe the following global forces of nature driving the earth's clilmate: (1) solar radiation as a dominant external energy supplier to earth, (2) outgassing as a major supplier of gasses to the world ocean and the atmosphere , and, possibly, (3) microbial activities generating and consuming atmospheric gases at the interface of lithosphere and atmosphere . . . the writers SHOW THAT HUMAN INDUCED CLIMATIC CHANGES ARE NEGLIGIBLE."
(4) "Several recent studies claim to have found evidence of large scale climate changes attributed to human influences. These assertions are based on increases of correlation over time between general circulation model prognostications and observations as derived from a centered pattern correlation statistic. We argue that the results of such studies ARE INAPPROPRIATE because of limitations and biases in these statistics which leads us to conclude that THE RESULTS OF MANY STUDIES EMPLOYING THESE STATISTICS MAY BE ERRONEOUS and, in fact, SHOW LITTLE EVIDENCE OF A HUMAN FINGERPRINT IN THE OBSERVED RECORDS."
(5) "The atmospheric greenhouse effect, an idea that authors trace back to the traditional works of Fourier 1824, Tyndall 1861, and Arrhenius 1896, and which is still supported in global climatology, ESSENTIALLY DESCRIBES A FICTITIOUS MECHANISM, in which a planetary atmosphere acts as a heat pump . . . according to the SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS SUCH A PLANETARY MACHINE CAN NEVER EXIST. Nevertheless, in almost all texts of global climatology . . . it is taken for granted that such mechanism is real . . . in this paper the popular conjecture is analyzed and . . . THE ATMOSPHERIC GREENHOUSE CONJECTURE IS FALSIFIED.

31,000 American scientists signed a petition against global warming.

According to the National Climate Data Center, 2008 temperatures in the U.S.A were below the 115 year average.

April 2009 temps were 0.8f below the 20th century average.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by detbuch

In geologic time, 120 years is also too short to prove anymore than what occured in that 120 years, wherein, by the way, man-made use of fossil fuels were not a problem for half the graph.

31,000 American scientists signed a petition against global warming.

I don't have time to go point by point right now.

1. Are you a geologist?
2. I hate this quote. a. How many of the 31,000 were/are have a background in climate, climatology, geology or some other science where this is THEIR field... b. how many WOULDN'T sign it!

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Most of the studies actually contradict your position.

What's my position?

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

[


Only an idiot would measure climate change with a 10 year sample, or perhaps someone out to ignore science and make a political point.

RIROCKHOUND sure called that one.

-spence

the problem with your statement and thinking Spence is that YOUR definition of "SCIENCE" is only that science that you agree with or that forwards your position/agenda, you completely ingore and impune a wealth of science and scientists that disagree with Manmade Global Warming Theory, a completely media and politically motivated and driven agenda...whose head is in the sand?