Health insurance

[scottw]

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

Edit...ScottW I don't need or want any handouts I just want them to fix this bloated %$%$%$%$ed up broken system they have right now.

I wasn't suggesting that Salty...much of the problem with the system is government involvement currently, RI has I believe more than 1000 mandates for coverage and requirements for h-ins companies presently, as a result there are only 3 providers in RI...many states will not let you purchase catastrophic policies which I believe are the most sensible solution...I've had one for years, I mentioned this before..my family of 5 premium is 300 per month...I pay out of pocket for checkups, dentist, perscriptions up to a max deductible and still come out far ahead after many years of paying BC/BS individually...I spent this morning "shopping" for an abdominal CT scan for my wife... I spoke to the head of the department at Newport Hospital regarding his fee for reading the catscan, when he found out that we were self pay he reduced the cost by 50%...we found the same to be true with the scan itself....I'm not done "shopping" because there are scores of facitities within 50 miles that provide that service at many different prices...few people ever consider what these things cost, they simply pull out their card and someone else takes care of everything...with that reality it's hard to complain when you think that things have gone amuck, in some cases you have no choice but to head right to the emergency room...but in most cases you could absolutely shop around for a doctor that you liked/preferred and felt was not robbing you if you actually had the incentive, you don't with most insurance these days because you purchase through someone else like an employer, a policy that includes for more coverage than you will ever require because they are in most cases mandated to include scores of things by the state....if you purchased individually a policy with things that you felt were necessary and didn't expect an insurance policy to pay for every little bit of medical attention as well as anything that could somehow be construed as medical care(botox, viagara) you'd be far better off and you'd have far more freedom to "shop" for what is best for your particular situation...

in my opinion far too many people now assume that healhcare as well as insurance and medical services are just something that someone else should be paying for, providing and taking care of all of the nasty paperwork so that they may use it at will...


when I say "you"...I'm not saying..you Salty...just you...anyone you..

[Cool Beans]

Stop the frivolous lawsuits, and give actual US citizens matching funds dollar for dollar that they put away in a tax free Health savings plan. and also along the same standards as EIC, give lower income families a 5,000 tax credit each year for their health savings account, then each family only pay for a low cost catastrophic plan to cover the major crisis like cancer.

Many doctor visits and hospital visits are up to 40% cheaper if you pay cash, with these accounts they could pay up front for additional saving..

This simple plan would work and cost way less than the public option.

Of course this health savings account cannot be used for anything not medically related.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

Many doctor visits and hospital visits are up to 40% cheaper if you pay cash, with these accounts they could pay up front for additional saving..

This simple plan would work and cost way less than the public option.

So you want to give poor people 5000 cash?

-spence

[TheSpecialist]

How come in the US we pay 6000-10000 for a stent, but in other countries it is like 1000-2000? There is something wrong with that. There is something wrong wrong with the health care system, when in the us an MRI cost 1200, but in Japan it is only 98 bucks. We are subsidizing everyone.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...s/ikegami.html

[Karl F]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

How come in the US we pay 6000-10000 for a stent, but in other countries it is like 1000-2000? There is something wrong with that. There is something wrong wrong with the health care system, when in the us an MRI cost 1200, but in Japan it is only 98 bucks. We are subsidizing everyone.


FRONTLINE: sick around the world: interviews: naoki ikegami | PBS

Interesting read on that link, thanks for posting it.

[Cool Beans]

I think one of the huge reasons for that is in Japan, it is almost impossible to sue a doctor or medical facility. A doctor may get charged with negligent homicide on cases where his intentions were to cause harm, but otherwise it isn't going to happen.

They believe doctors are trying to help you, not hurt you, so if an occasional accident does happen it is not held against them,, kind of like a Good Samaritan's law.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Karl F

Interesting read on that link, thanks for posting it.

good read. Some things we could incorporate in our system.
I like the fact that while their government pays 1/4 of insurance premiums based on income, employers and employees pay the rest with the max $6000/yr.

However, workers have a 30% co-pay for treatment and drugs which is the highest in the world.

From reading other articles i saw where Doctors see about 100-150 patients a day and spend about 3 Min's per patient and make
$100-$150,000/year depending on wether they work in a hospital or clinic I can't see why anyone would want to put in the extra 6 years in time and $$$
to become a doctor to make make $150,000 a year.
Then pay all kinds of overhead and insurance.
I read here that one of the guy's wife's pays $600,000 for OB/GYN coverage.

The best thing about Japan is Malpractice insurance is very low as there are few lawyers.

Hospitals are tight on help and there are few nurses at night.

The Prime Minister determines the price increases every 2 years.
Too much power, IMHO.

While they go to the doctor something like 4x more than we do, it's mostly minor stuff that a general practitioner can treat. They are a much healthier people
with 3% obese vs 30% in USA.

I remember when CAT scanners first came out here. The state limited them to 6
hospitals in the state because of cost. Same with the MRI's. Talk about waiting lists.
Anytime you get the government involved things get backed up, and messed up.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by justplugit

From reading other articles i saw where Doctors see about 100-150 patients a day and spend about 3 Min's per patient and make
$100-$150,000/year depending on wether they work in a hospital or clinic I can't see why anyone would want to put in the extra 6 years in time and $$$
to become a doctor to make make $150,000 a year.
Then pay all kinds of overhead and insurance.
I read here that one of the guy's wife's pays $600,000 for OB/GYN coverage.

My girlfriend is in school to become a Physician's Assistant. The "Assistant" term is misleading, in that a PA can do almost as much as an M.D., and significantly more than a Nurse Practitioner. Graduates from her college last year had a *minimum* pay of $88,000 - one person who moved to work a Montana ER started at $110,000.

Their malpractice insurance is also significantly less that an Doc's. It will get to the point where people will say "Why am I going to go to school for 9 years, when I can be come a PA in 5 1/2 to make a similar amount?"

With regards to the OB/GYN malpractice being so high, an ob/gyn doctor is on the hook to be sued for an incident until that child becomes 18. All other doctors, cases must be filed within 3 or 4 years (not sure the exact number), but if a parent has even the slightest proof that their child *might* have suffered brain damage during birth, they can sue the doctor even if the child is 17 years old. Tell me that's not a joke.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

How come in the US we pay 6000-10000 for a stent, but in other countries it is like 1000-2000? There is something wrong with that. There is something wrong wrong with the health care system, when in the us an MRI cost 1200, but in Japan it is only 98 bucks. We are subsidizing everyone.


FRONTLINE: sick around the world: interviews: naoki ikegami | PBS

I find it interesting that the Japanese make HC "more affordable" by having a government version of "out of pocket" payment (Charge what payer can afford or go out of business). The gov. is a proxy representative of all the individual payers and insurance companies (of which there are many) and states this is what we can afford to pay. Accept it, or go out of business. What a concept!

As for Japan's best-in-world macro health indicators (infant mortality and longevity), it is demonstrably because of their lifestyle, homegeneous culture and lack of immigration problems, etc., NOT because of health care. Their need of health care is less pressing than U.S. citizens who are rather careless, in general, about their health, and who are a far more diverse, uncontrolled population. But survival rates of those undergoing U.S. medical procedures is tops.

Ikegami favors socialistic over market approach to HC only because, in his opinion, HC is a life and death situation. Actually, most HC is not, and what is could be covered by various private ins. cos.--catastrophic, health savings, etc.

Amazing that only 70% of Japanese favor the universal package--80% of US are happy with what they have.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Ikegami favors socialistic over market approach to HC only because, in his opinion, HC is a life and death situation. Actually, most HC is not, and what is could be covered by various private ins. cos.--catastrophic, health savings, etc.

An afterthought re socialistic solutions to "life and death" situations instead of free market solutions. Food, clothing, shelter, among others, are as much "life and death" situations as health care. Should we not, then, have universal food care, universal clothing care, universal shelter care, etc.?

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Should we not, then, have universal food care, universal clothing care, universal shelter care, etc.?

Let's see, we got car companies, banks, insurance companies, govt taking over of
all student loans, proposed health care.
Ya need to give them at least another 8 months till we get the food,another cheese hand out,
clothing, shelter and they blow your nose for you.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

An afterthought re socialistic solutions to "life and death" situations instead of free market solutions. Food, clothing, shelter, among others, are as much "life and death" situations as health care. Should we not, then, have universal food care, universal clothing care, universal shelter care, etc.?

Everything is on a spectrum. We already do have some level of aid for many of these situations, food stamps, tax exemptions for clothing in some states, low income housing subsidies etc...

Your argument is akin to the one that says if two gay people can legally marry, then why can't you marry 5 people or a goat or even 5 goats?

History has proven that when society sets reasonable limits the results can indeed be effective even when pulled at from both sides.

-spence

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by spence

So you want to give poor people 5000 cash?

-spence

$5,000 instead of earned income credit, deposited directly into their Health Saving Account, that can be accessed only via an ATM like card that is valid only at medical facilities.