Iran

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

So why do you show us that stupid, probably staged, photo?

How do you know it was staged? If I were attending a rally you'd better believe I'd bring a double sided sign.

If it were an image of Obama as the Joker would that be any different? I'm sure I can find plenty of those.

Fareed not only went beyond merely calling Republicans obstructionists to Obama (which he never really did--that's just your throw-in).

Sorry if my critical thinking clouds your judgment.

The only actual Republican politician he mentioned was Nixon. He painted ACTUAL UNNAMED Republican politicians as fools-by-proxy. He immediately excoriated a "right-wing netherworld" comprised of Michelle Malkin and Rush Limbaugh and a debate in The National Review, and then proclaimed that today's discourse of American conservatism is: Obama is bad because he loves death panels and Hitler. As an editor of Newsweek, either he KNOWS that actual Republican politicians have not discoursed Hitler and have discoursed every major topic, or he is too ignorant to be an editor of a major news journal. Does he, or you, know that there are 32 bills on health care reform submitted by House Republicans? Of course, when Republicans speak, as far as the media to which Zakaria pays heed, its like an insignificant little gust passing away. Because Republican views differ from the politically accepted norm of the select media, when they are given attention, they, naturally being different than Obama's, are considered obstructionism, or demonization to defeat him. IS THAT NOT WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO IF YOU DISAGREE? Is that not what the Dems did throughout much of Bushes terms? SUCCESSFULLY?

I've yet to see any real GOP leadership on these issues. Are there legitimate ideas out there? Of course there are, but they are not the focus of attention because the party is in a reactionary position and looking towards the quick emotional hit, the pundits, rather than those who might actually make a difference.

About the only rationale I've seen from Republicans on the issue of health care has come from Republican "business executives".

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

How do you know it was staged? If I were attending a rally you'd better believe I'd bring a double sided sign.

I see other signs in the picture that are not double sided. I don't see any other signs being held up arms fully extended. That would be difficult to do for more than a moment or two and there is no need to do so. If you want to make a photo with IMPACT, you ask the holder to hold the sign above the crowd so it stands out and dominates, and you also ask the holder to turn his back so as not to detract from the sign because the first thing a viewer looks at in a photo is a living human face. You compose your picture, click, tell the holder that he can lower his tired arms, chuckle devilishly and know you've got a hit. It is VERY convenient to have these factors accidentally converging at the same time a camera is right behind the sign holder ready to shoot the picture. I said it was PROBABLY staged.

Sorry if my critical thinking clouds your judgment.

You DO think well of yourself, don't you.

I've yet to see any real GOP leadership on these issues. Are there legitimate ideas out there? Of course there are, but they are not the focus of attention because the party is in a reactionary position and looking towards the quick emotional hit, the pundits, rather than those who might actually make a difference.

You DON'T think well of Republicans, do you. They just don't meet your standards of leadership.

About the only rationale I've seen from Republicans on the issue of health care has come from Republican "business executives".
-spence

HR77, HR109, HR198, HR270, HR321, HR464, HR502, HR544, HR917, HR1086, HR1118, HJR1441, HR1458, HR1468, HR1658, HR1891, HR2520, HR2607, HR2692, HR2784, HR2785, HR2786, HR2787, HR3141, HR3217, HR3218, HR3356, HR3372, HR3400, HR3438, HR3454, HR3478.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I see other signs in the picture that are not double sided. I don't see any other signs being held up arms fully extended. That would be difficult to do for more than a moment or two and there is no need to do so. If you want to make a photo with IMPACT, you ask the holder to hold the sign above the crowd so it stands out and dominates, and you also ask the holder to turn his back so as not to detract from the sign because the first thing a viewer looks at in a photo is a living human face. You compose your picture, click, tell the holder that he can lower his tired arms, chuckle devilishly and know you've got a hit. It is VERY convenient to have these factors accidentally converging at the same time a camera is right behind the sign holder ready to shoot the picture. I said it was PROBABLY staged.

Sorry if my critical thinking clouds your judgment.

I quickly grabbed a photo to spice up my post, not to serve as the backbone of the argument. Postulate all you want as to the origins of that photo, it does nothing to counter the assertion that as far as the GOP is concerned, demonizing Obama is prioritized over furthering any constructive debate.

You DON'T think well of Republicans, do you. They just don't meet your standards of leadership.

I don't really care about party. I vote based on the candidates and the issues, and I'm fairly certain I've voted for far more Republican candidates over the years than Democrats.

HR77, HR109, HR198, HR270, HR321, HR464, HR502, HR544, HR917, HR1086, HR1118, HJR1441, HR1458, HR1468, HR1658, HR1891, HR2520, HR2607, HR2692, HR2784, HR2785, HR2786, HR2787, HR3141, HR3217, HR3218, HR3356, HR3372, HR3400, HR3438, HR3454, HR3478.

So did you actually read any of these before you cut and pasted?

To provide for a credit for certain health care benefits in determining the minimum wage.

To amend the Small Business Act to make service-disabled veterans eligible under the 8(a) business development program.

To require the Secretary of the Treasury to analyze and report on the exchange rate policies of the People's Republic of China, and to require that additional tariffs be imposed on products of that country on the basis of the rate of manipulation by that country of the rate of exchange between the currency of that country and the United States dollar.

To amend the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 to authorize assistance to improve security and promote economic development in Mexico.

Etc...

These are the great GOP ideas we've been waiting for? Did any make it past sub committee?

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

I quickly grabbed a photo to spice up my post, not to serve as the backbone of the argument. Postulate all you want as to the origins of that photo, it does nothing to counter the assertion that as far as the GOP is concerned, demonizing Obama is prioritized over furthering any constructive debate.

What is your connection of the GOP to that photo? Is the sign carrier a GOP congressman? Did the GOP give him the sign and tell him to display it? I have no idea who that person is, what his intentions are, to which party he is affiliated, for all I know, you sent him there. The photo does nothing to support the assertion that the GOP is demonizing Obama. And if it's a set-up, it is even worse.

I don't really care about party. I vote based on the candidates and the issues, and I'm fairly certain I've voted for far more Republican candidates over the years than Democrats.

So this is supposed to give you the bona fides to connect the GOP to that photo?

So did you actually read any of these before you cut and pasted?

To provide for a credit for certain health care benefits in determining the minimum wage.

To amend the Small Business Act to make service-disabled veterans eligible under the 8(a) business development program.

To require the Secretary of the Treasury to analyze and report on the exchange rate policies of the People's Republic of China, and to require that additional tariffs be imposed on products of that country on the basis of the rate of manipulation by that country of the rate of exchange between the currency of that country and the United States dollar.

To amend the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 to authorize assistance to improve security and promote economic development in Mexico.

Etc...

These are the great GOP ideas we've been waiting for? Did any make it past sub committee?

-spence

When you google the HR numbers, you will find numbers for various years. For instance the HR321 that refers to the foreign exchange rate policies of China is the 2007 bill. The 2009 HR321 is the health care version. The HR502 that refers to security in Mexico is the 2007 bill. The 2009 bill is the health care version. The majority of the HRs I listed are small items. The largest, most important one, in the list is HR3218. It is titled Improving Health Care For all Americans Act, introduced by Republican House Representative John Shadegg.

So which NON-EXISTENT Republican health care proposal is Democrat congressman Alan Grace referring to when he says the Republican health care plan tells you to die quickly? Is this demonizing rather than furthering the debate? Or is it demonizing and obstructing only if a Republican says it?

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

So which NON-EXISTENT Republican health care proposal is Democrat congressman Alan Grace referring to when he says the Republican health care plan tells you to die quickly? Is this demonizing rather than furthering the debate? Or is it demonizing and obstructing only if a Republican says it?

It was a stunt...like "you lie"...he makes the bed in which he sleeps.

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

It was a stunt...like "you lie"...he makes the bed in which he sleeps.

-spence

So is his stunt a demonization of an ACTUAL Republican health care plan (which Dems keep claiming doesn't exist and Repubs only demonize, without being constructive, for the quick hit to defeat Obama)? Or is his stunt somehow calling attention to the fact that there is no Republican plan by saying that such a non-existent plan tells you to die quickly?

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

So is his stunt a demonization of an ACTUAL Republican health care plan (which Dems keep claiming doesn't exist and Repubs only demonize, without being constructive, for the quick hit to defeat Obama)? Or is his stunt somehow calling attention to the fact that there is no Republican plan by saying that such a non-existent plan tells you to die quickly?

I guess you didn't get the sarcasm?

-spence