I Don't Care What Anyone Says........

[Nebe]

I told all of you so 3 years ago. Remember? Most of you thought I was delusional.
There are way less fish around than 5 or 8 years ago... Way less. Until everyone wakes up and embraces catch and release, the trend will continue on a downward spiral.

I don't mean to sound doom and gloomy, but 80% of people fishing now didn't live the moratorium years..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Bass are in trouble if you ask me.

I would concur with you if we had only one size of fish(all real large) present, which we clearly don't. The 70's crash should have been easy to spot as there were all jumbo fish and no smalls. Given the size distribution of fish present right now, I can't envision a crash coming soon under any scenario. Harvest rates may be higher than replacement rates right now for all anyone knows, but there's still plenty of breeder sized fish out there.
The recs keeping 2 fish per day is very wasteful though. I'm not sure anyone can eat that many fish. Those who keep 2 a day in many cases do it simply because they can...therein lies the problem... its a "tragedy of the commons."

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by Tagger

Question .. do you belive the fishery is as strong as its ever been ?
or do you believe its as strong as its ever been just becoming an off shore fishery as some have stated.. or just an I'm good ,,you suck at fishing,, kind of thing ..

I believe that the fishing is hurting inshore. Reports of all kinds of bass in the EEZ and on Stellwagen make me think that the stocks might not be as endangered as others think but something drastic is definetly taking place inshore to alter thier historic seasonal habitations. Seals? Water quality? Bait availablity? I think all may be contributing but not being a research scientist it's purely speculative on my part.

One thing is for sure they are defintely as litoral as they always had been. Something is going on. What I do not know.

[Back Beach]

Can anyone answer this?

How many stripers do we need to have in order to keep everyone happy? 50 pounders every other cast? 60 pounders every third cast? On what do you base your opinion of the fishery?

I think there's a lot of ego involved too. You have a less than stellar year and suddenly the fishing stinks.

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Can anyone answer this?

How many stripers do we need to have in order to keep everyone happy? 50 pounders every other cast? 60 pounders every third cast? On what do you base your opinion of the fishery?

I never thought I would say this given my romantic reminisscence of the 70's and early 80's and the dropping ooff of a lot of bass at Old Harbor fish market but:

#1, bring back the 36 inch one fish a day limit.

#2, stop the commercial sale of Striped Bass along the entire coast, you want to eat one then catch it yourslef or go hungry.

#3 In other words, it's time to realize the greater importance of this fish and it's economic impact and make it a gamefish.

#4 The menhaden fishery needs to be stopped. No harvet for commercial nees and no harvest for supply to bait shops either.

There I said it, I have come out of the Gamefish for Striped Bass closet.

Let the persecution begin.

[JFigliuolo]

Burn him... BUUUUUUUUUUUUURN HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIM!!!!!!!

[RIJIMMY]

I'm with Flap.

[Got Stripers]

Terrible weather, terrible fishing (bass), far too quick a season for my taste; was the season that wasn't.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

I never thought I would say this given my romantic reminisscence of the 70's and early 80's and the dropping ooff of a lot of bass at Old Harbor fish market but:

#1, bring back the 36 inch one fish a day limit.

#2, stop the commercial sale of Striped Bass along the entire coast, you want to eat one then catch it yourslef or go hungry.

#3 In other words, it's time to realize the greater importance of this fish and it's economic impact and make it a gamefish.

#4 The menhaden fishery needs to be stopped. No harvet for commercial nees and no harvest for supply to bait shops either.

There I said it, I have come out of the Gamefish for Striped Bass closet.

Let the persecution begin.

Flap:
We were all guilty of selling in the 70s. We also learned what that massive abuse led to. The management of the entire fishing ecosystem is out of whack. It's not only the Bass, as you pointed out, it's the bait. They are so GD intent on making fertilizer and fish oil capsules that they are completely ignoring the bigger picture.

[redlite]

[QUOTE=Flaptail;



#2, stop the commercial sale of Striped Bass along the entire coast, you want to eat one then catch it yourslef or go hungry.

#3 In other words, it's time to realize the greater importance of this fish and it's economic impact and make it a gamefish.

.

There I said it, I have come out of the Gamefish for Striped Bass closet.

Um, maybe I'm a bit misinformed by "Gamefish Status", but doesn't that mean that you can't keep them at all, even for personal gratification or consumption???

On another note, second best year I have ever had in my life. Again, just like last year, the fish were just in different spots. Had to figure them out, but once I did, it was consistently great for nice fish. The weather was a major, major factor in this (as well as real life things). BAsed upon my slips, I fished half as many nights this year and caught half as many fish, but the avaerage poundage was still the same as last year.
I quit after Columbus day last year, and the reports last year were pretty bleak. I am giving it a half hearted effort once in a while this year, but I haven't caught a fish since columbus day weekend. The reports from my network of guys that are still pounding it hard are doin little more than poundin' their pud.
I have been saying it for years that the rules of the commercial fishery here in Mass have destroyed the inshore stocks of bass. Yes, I have helped contribute my small effort to it, but a very small part. Do I feel "guilty" or bad about it? Not really. Would I miss it if they did away with the commercial fishery? Not really. everyone fishes for different reasons. Normally I don't even keep fish as I don't eat it.
Good luck to everyone that is still givin it hell, all it takes is one cast for that fish of a lifetime, and it could be on the next cast, so keep at it.
Good luck cause it ain't over yet.....the fat lady is only on the first verse of the song..........

[Odizza]

i am having the best seson i have ever had. 4 times as many keeper bass than any year prior and my personal best. Not a lot of big fish but an overall good year for me.

[afterhours]

game fish status prohibits the sale of said fish, it allows public consumption. i'm in favor of gamefish status for stripers with a limit of 1 fish at 36". i'm glad some of you guys have had great years but the writings on the wall and some of us have seen/lived it before.

[JFigliuolo]

To say you contribute to the decline of in-shore stocks and that you don't feel too bad about it is pretty telling. I'm not making a personal attack, just saying...

Yeah, i know that I sell crack... and it's probably ruining some lives, but I really don't feel bad about it at all. If I couldn't sell crack I'd be fine.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Crack is illegal, selling bass w/ a license is not.

Big difference.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Odizza

i am having the best seson i have ever had. 4 times as many keeper bass than any year prior and my personal best. Not a lot of big fish but an overall good year for me.

Just my and AH's point. 4 times as many keepers but if the size limit were 36" how many then?
I am glad some are having a great year. I had a super Spring myself. That's not the point. You guys are missing the point entirely. The point is: The MAJORITY of the guys are not having a great year and the consensus seems to be that there are less fish and less quality fish and fewer periods when there are good fish. It's not about one or two or three guys having a good year. Read the posts. I'm betting that the number will be like 80% having a &%*^% year.

Second question? Why not a lot of big fish. Could it be because there are a high percentage of guys and gals fishing that are killing 28" fish?

When we went to 34", then 36" then the moritorium you couldn't buy a 30# fish. I won 2nd place in 90 with a 32# fish in the Thundermist Club. Thundermist guys fished almost exclusively on "The Back" and the likes of Lanny Grazini, Chuck H, and a bunch of "high hooks" that were some of the best that ever threw a conventional were in that club. A 32 takes second place and a 38# fish won it. Tony Chiroppo was one of Lanny's partners.

I pray to God that it doesn't come to pass but there are 5 times more guys fishing now than there were 20 years ago. if we don't do something quickly, there will be no bass agan.

[JFigliuolo]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Crack is illegal, selling bass w/ a license is not.

Big difference.

I don't have any issues with him selling. That wasn't my point and I know the crack analogy was stretching.

My point is that he is doing something he knows/suspects is hurting the fishery and really could care less about it.

The "if I don't do it someone else will" argument. If you think it's hurting something, but do it anyway for $$$ it just shows what is important to him.

I don't know redlite, I'm sure he's a great guy, but I doubt he needs to fish to put food($$$) on the table.

[beaver]

I wasn't alive for the moratorium but I bet it sucked. Lets not have another.

Grew up fishing in the 90s and boy was it fun. I'd like something done to help protect the bass but I don't know how practical making it a gamefish is. I don't fish commercially, but a lot of guys do and the last thing that this government is going to do now is put more people out of work.

I vote for gamefish status, slot limit, 36" / 1 fish, or anything that will help.

[eskimo]

just my 2 cents.

I've had a good fall run. numerous 20# fish with the highest being 35# and some in between but mostly stuck in the 20's. ALTHOUGH, I fished EVERY SINGLE night since sometime in september where I didn't make it out for a few days. a lot of hours. I'm sure my odds aren't too good but that's ok.

The majority of my fish did not come from my usual spots. After countless dead nights at each one of my usual's I moved and occasionally checked back.

Sometimes your old haunts are just that.


On the not so good end, the fleet at the islands just keeps getting bigger and most of their fish just meets comm size. multiple times this year I asked the local markets that a lot of the fleet use what largest of the day was and usually it was a high 30's fish. not good.

On the OK (still not good end), but a little relief since I've wondered all year. I've seen more schoolies (massive amount of 15 inch fish) in the last week then I've seen in a couple of seasons put together. The lack of schoolies was something I've been thinking about all year.

this is just what my season and what I've noticed, not disagreeing with anyone, not fact, just opinion.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by eskimo

just my 2 cents.

I've had a good fall run. numerous 20# fish with the highest being 35# and some in between but mostly stuck in the 20's. ALTHOUGH, I fished EVERY SINGLE night since sometime in september where I didn't make it out for a few days. a lot of hours. I'm sure my odds aren't too good but that's ok.

The majority of my fish did not come from my usual spots. After countless dead nights at each one of my usual's I moved and occasionally checked back.

Sometimes your old haunts are just that.


On the not so good end, the fleet at the islands just keeps getting bigger and most of their fish just meets comm size. multiple times this year I asked the local markets that a lot of the fleet use what largest of the day was and usually it was a high 30's fish. not good.

On the OK (still not good end), but a little relief since I've wondered all year. I've seen more schoolies (massive amount of 15 inch fish) in the last week then I've seen in a couple of seasons put together. The lack of schoolies was something I've been thinking about all year.

this is just what my season and what I've noticed, not disagreeing with anyone, not fact, just opinion.

really good sensible post. Kudos!!

I am encouraged to hear that you are seeing schoolies.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Can anyone answer this?

How many stripers do we need to have in order to keep everyone happy? 50 pounders every other cast? 60 pounders every third cast? On what do you base your opinion of the fishery?

I think there's a lot of ego involved too. You have a less than stellar year and suddenly the fishing stinks.

How many??? Next question.
50's or 60's??? What are you smoking?
My opinion is based on the reports of my friends who fish. Both the comm's and rec's who, in most cases, had subpar years.
Ego? Yeah it sucked for me but my observations are not based solely on my experiences.
I hope I am wrong but I don't think I am.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

How many??? Next question.
50's or 60's??? What are you smoking?
My opinion is based on the reports of my friends who fish. Both the comm's and rec's who, in most cases, had subpar years.
Ego? Yeah it sucked for me but my observations are not based solely on my experiences.
I hope I am wrong but I don't think I am.

Chris,

My point is the fishery isn't collapsing. Based on what we see and hear there may be a fewer fish, I don't know.

My question to everyone was simply this...How do you judge what quality fishing is? Do you need a 50 or 60 every trip out in order for it to be considered good? I don't thnk so. You don't even need 30 or 40# fish to be considered good, IMO.
My belief is there's still plenty of fish out there. Just because the folks we know catch less one year than the previous doesn't constitute a collapse.

As for commercial landings, I did the commercial thing for many years (1985-2001) and can tell you in the early-mid 90's the striped bass fishery was deemed "restored" by fisheries managers. It still took 6-8 weeks to fill a quota that was less than half of what we have now. Maybe it was because fewer people were participating, I'm not sure. This means it took nearly the same amount of time back then to fill a quota that was half of what we have now...are you paying attention?

[CaptMike]

Personally I had a bettert year than the last two but a far cry from 8-9 seasons ago. We can definitely argue about what's to blame (seals, commercial fishery, bait, weather, regulations, fishermen taking steroids (If I don't the next guy will!)) but I really see very little reason not to do something. Why not go to 1 @ 36"? Worst case scenario we improve a healthy fishery, what a bummer that would be! I don't know what constitutes a healthy or ideal fishery but I do know that a lot of experienced anglers share my feeling that the striper fishery is not what it was a few years ago.

[Sea Dangles]

Aren't you still a comm guy?
Semantics don't work in this case Mike.I didn't say collapse, but I did use words like decline and subpar.The 30,40 or 50's thing isn't especially relevent in this case either.Personally,I'm happy with the thought that there MIGHT be fish where I happen to be casting.You can dig up as many skewed numbers from the past as you want to support your weak argument but my eyes and ears tell me now what many Old Salts have been saying for a few years.Please post pics of all the cows you caught this fall.(without redlite guiding)

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

.I didn't say collapse, but I did use words like decline and subpar.

Fair enough, but you did say they were in trouble. As for what you, I, or anyone else caught this fall whether guided or not, it simply doesn't apply to the big picture. A few weeks of slow fishing in one single spot doesn't mean the fish are disappearing.

Much like me, you were the proverbial Charlie Brown waiting for the great pumpkin this fall...and he never showed.

As for the "guide" comment, I need a good guide in order to have a shot at catching something decent. I have no problem admitting it.

This is the reason I typically turn down all your "guide" offers...you simply don't produce for me...

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by afterhours

game fish status prohibits the sale of said fish, it allows public consumption. i'm in favor of gamefish status for stripers with a limit of 1 fish at 36". i'm glad some of you guys have had great years but the writings on the wall and some of us have seen/lived it before.

Education might help too....I, myself, honestly thought that gamefish status meant no keeping what-so-ever......strictly catch and release.

I would bet that there is a lot of people that didn't know this that are against Gamefish status for just that reason.

I would agree with that too......one fish 36" @ gamefish status

[Rockfish9]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

I never thought I would say this given my romantic reminisscence of the 70's and early 80's and the dropping ooff of a lot of bass at Old Harbor fish market but:

#1, bring back the 36 inch one fish a day limit.

#2, stop the commercial sale of Striped Bass along the entire coast, you want to eat one then catch it yourslef or go hungry.

#3 In other words, it's time to realize the greater importance of this fish and it's economic impact and make it a gamefish.

#4 The menhaden fishery needs to be stopped. No harvet for commercial nees and no harvest for supply to bait shops either.

There I said it, I have come out of the Gamefish for Striped Bass closet.

Let the persecution begin.

My thoughts exactly.. only my fish went to the local coop.... I havent killed ( knowingly ) or sold a bass since 2004...

I fish well north of most of you ( NH boarder to Gloucester), gone are my days of chasing bass up and down the coast, at 53 I'm just not inclined and have nothing to gain or prove by it.... I have my patch of "ground" and it has been very,very kind to me, even when the fishing was tough for others to the south( early to mid 80's), I always had an abundance of fish...during the moritorium, I still did well and thought the "doom and gloom" was a crock.. my thinking then ,is you just need to fish harder.. fact is.. I hadn't been at it long enough... now, being older and wiser ( the wiser part sometimes questionable) i see things differently... and with out a doubt, there are far fewer small fish.. missing mostly, are the 10-12lb class fish, Normaly Plum Island ( Mass) is loaded with these fish, there are nights I need to make several moves just to get away from them...the last few years they have all but vanished from traditional waters... we all ( or those of us that have been around a few years)know that bass stocks and their comings and goings are cyclical, some years they show in spots for several years in a row then they are gone, only to show up in big numbers somewhere else,they may be the king ( or queen) of the surf, but they have been known to hang off shore ( the bank)... and when they migrate, they dont always take the shoreward route, thus lending to the absence of a fall ( or even a spring) run, I hear/ see people talk about all the fish still in Maine... it means nothing to the fishermen ( and woman) to their south, the longer they stay in Maine, the surer the bet that they ride the outside currents out over the deeper ( and warmer) bait filled water, right around the tip of the cape( cod)...fall runs are all about location, some years some areas have banner years while others wonder where all the fish are....

are the fish in trouble... maybe, but I dont think so.. at least not yet... are there less of them.. no doubt about it.. I'm in favor with those wanting to give these fish game fish status.. personaly.. I think they deserve it....and as for the bait sorces AKA Pogies and herring.. we havent seen a sustained school of pogies in the Merrimack river since 1987... no big bait means no big fish... IMHO the main reason the river is lifeless by early August after the last of the surviving herring have returned to sea...thus most of the action is out on the beach...

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Fair enough, but you did say they were in trouble. As for what you, I, or anyone else caught this fall whether guided or not, it simply doesn't apply to the big picture. A few weeks of slow fishing in one single spot doesn't mean the fish are disappearing.

Much like me, you were the proverbial Charlie Brown waiting for the great pumpkin this fall...and he never showed.

As for the "guide" comment, I need a good guide in order to have a shot at catching something decent. I have no problem admitting it.

This is the reason I typically turn down all your "guide" offers...you simply don't produce for me...

I will say it again.I AM NOT BASING THIS ON MY EXPERIENCES.But I have friends who also have friends that are fishing what are historically productive areas.Valiant,the race,BI....they simply could not stay on the fish.Never mind my barren pumpkin patch.I think this qualifies as the big picture.Read the words instead of interpreting them.This is not a fall run observation either,rather a compilation of data going back a handful of years.To me, words like decline and subpar will eventually equal trouble,it's simple math.And stop Flaptailing us with old comm stories on the backside.

[JoeBass]

[QUOTE=Fish360;719469]I did a lot of hunting for striped bass in Maine's rivers, estuaries, jetties, and beaches between Saco river and Ogunquit river. I hit all my regular hot spots (big producers in years past). Skunked!! Towards the end of the season, I went to a beach I never fished before and landed an fish full of attitude! This fish was mean! She drank sea water and excreted salt. Given the tackle I was using, I thought she was a 30 - 40 lber. Not! Only 8 lbs. Go figure. There is something in the Maine's water. :-).

I fished a total of around 3 weeks in Maine, from the Piscataquaw to Kennebunk, with a concentration around Wells/ Ogun......I found it to be pretty good. Every day I caught at least a couple of stripers. Not the big ones I see on this site, but bigger than usual. Had good luck on the fly...several around 30", which was great for me. And had a blast on a couple of boat trips on the coast. All in all, very good memories.

[Greene]

Originally Posted by piemma

I watch guys doing snag and drop in the Upper Bay this Sring. Catching 28" bass and keeping them by the boat load. 4 guys on a boat and absolute "stupid" fishing and they keep 8, 28" fish. WHAT THE *&&^&^% a!!!

Agreed! I always took my bunker and left upper upper bay, never fished there. Sometimes I just wished the bunker would leave and that the bass would follow, just so the bass would stop getting murdered. It was like shooting fish in the proverbial "bucket" up there this spring.

I'll admit, I had a tougher spring than usual which was probably directly related to the fact that bunker were only holding STRONG in that one particular area (as opposed to many coves like years' past) and therefore was no reason for the bass to be in strong numbers elsewhere. But I still rather fish alone in some of my favorite spots, away from the crowds, than get caught up in that absolute mess up there.

I know you saw what it would get like up there Sat morning at 6am...crazy. That's why I was up there at 2am, just like you.

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I will say it again.I AM NOT BASING THIS ON MY EXPERIENCES.But I have friends who also have friends that are fishing what are historically productive areas.Valiant,the race,BI....they simply could not stay on the fish.Never mind my barren pumpkin patch.I think this qualifies as the big picture.Read the words instead of interpreting them.This is not a fall run observation either,rather a compilation of data going back a handful of years.To me, words like decline and subpar will eventually equal trouble,it's simple math.And stop Flaptailing us with old comm stories on the backside.

Hahahaha that's too funny! "Flaptailing" I cannot wait to use that.

I guess we could call your posts "Sea Dangling"?

Get the point of this emoticon?