long term striper management

[Islander77]

Originally Posted by bloocrab

You have to be joking....I just shared a large bottle of wine with my father over an all you can eat clam boil so pardon my slurrring....

...but are you people that ignorant to believe that there could ever be a system that would even come close to keeping track of the number of fish...legal or not, that are caught by both commercial and recreational fishermen???? The number of fish that actually die after a non-successful release??? Or get discarded as bycatch ...or whatever/etc///.......most of the analytical numbers are bogus in my opinion. Like Saltheart said in the other thread, (but in my own words) ...most people on these websites are fairly honest ...but what about the other people. Mr. Saturday night, fishing off of a bridge...catching shorts and releasing them from a 40' drop? Or the guy who spends 20 minutes trying to unhook some trebles? Or the boats in an open oceanic spot where they know how much time they have before they can be possibly boarded???....

Soft science is an EXTREME understatement if you ask me.

I HAVE TO believe that the people that do catch regularly, KNOW what they're doing (more or less) ...and DO catch more than Mr. Saturday night who like Saltheart said, do NOT catch many fish.

Mr. Saturday night catches a shorty during his night and keeps it. Mr. Experienced internet hero catches 14 shorties and releases them all. Of the 14, 4 do not make it. Mr. Saturday night is responsible for 1 death (which he consumes), Mr. Internet HERO is responsible for 4 deaths? Who is doing more harm? The guy breaking the law...or the guy obeying the law but killing more fish?.....there's a Poll for ya.

That wine really went to your head.. As far as by-catch goes hmm most draggers are after suqid now bluefish is a bycatch plenty of that on pallets lately... AND FOR THE RECORD YES COMMERCIAL GUYS DONT HAVE A CAKE WALK OH I CAN KILL WHATEVER LIFE YALL THINK I DONT CARE HOW MUCH WINE YOU HAVE THAT WILL NOT CHANGE THEY ARE REGULATED MONITORED AND TRACKED ALL THE WHILE THE HAVE AN OBSERVER ON BOARD... NOT ROD AND REEL COMMERCIAL IM TALKING ACTUAL COMMERCIAL.. Rod and reel is totally different and wont be round much longer the way the industry is headed.....And soon enough we will all be sittin here saying man fishin was so much better before GATES FISHING INC. took over the government want big business not small independent guys reality if that happens kiss our ocean good bye!!!!!!!!!!!

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by bloocrab

...but are you people that ignorant to believe that there could ever be a system that would even come close to keeping track of the number of fish...legal or not, that are caught by both commercial and recreational fishermen???? The number of fish that actually die after a non-successful release??? Or get discarded as bycatch ...or whatever/etc///.......most of the analytical numbers are bogus in my opinion. :

Yikes, this is heading downhill fast. Every striped bass fisherman, commercial and recreational (including catch and release guys), kills fish.
Habitat degradation, forage depletion (of which other commercial fisheries are a major factor), disease, and natural predation kill fish.

Nobody expects to be able to "keep track" of each fish caught. They only want to improve the accuracy of their estimates, which are then used in an overall model to predict current and future fish populations. Those predictions are then tested against real world catch numbers, sampling results, and anecdotal experience. Like it or not, managing a resource requires this. That the numbers are "bogus" and too easily manipulated for alternate agendas is a fact of life. Better data can help improve that. The alternative is no fishery whatsoever.

[bloocrab]

Originally Posted by Islander77

That wine really went to your head.....

....head, shoulders, knees and toes,,, (had to throw that in there as that's all I hear in my sleep now..with the new baby)

...NOT ROD AND REEL COMMERCIAL IM TALKING ACTUAL COMMERCIAL.. Rod and reel is totally different...

DON'T TAKE OFFENSE TO MY POST!!!!....again, IMO...the majority of the members on this site are Rec...and Commie R&R,,,, but I could be wrong as I don't dig into everyone's business. It will ALWAYS be a GUEsstimate in my opinion....and just like horse/shoes...at times they may come close.

1. They only want to improve the accuracy of their estimates, ///// 2..Those predictions are then tested against real world catch numbers,......//// 3. Like it or not, managing a resource requires this.....//// 4. That the numbers are "bogus" and too easily manipulated for alternate agendas is a fact of life. .....///
Yesterday 10:18 PM

1. Point taken, but How accurate do YOU really think they can get? and WHY do you feel that way?

2. Real World Catch Numbers = ???,???,??? What is this?

3. Resources need to be managed and YES, these types of resources are VERY difficult to manage. I just don't like reading reports that give you an actual number. I read something in the Fisherman the other day that placed a number on how many people fished last year and how many fish were caught. Again, where the helll are they getting this data from?

4. Your final statement sums up my point.


...oh yeah, and lastly Mr. Numbskull....my intentions were not to drive this truck downhill....my apologies as I know my post came off a bit ,,, I've said it once and I'll say it again, I don't really know what I'm talking about, sometimes I just like to talk.

[MAKAI]

You ever see a british sportfishing mag ?
The conger eel and trash fish are the trophies.
We are inexorably heading down this same path.
So many different opinions on what needs to be done that ultimately nothing gets done.
It's what people do best, as my buddy Paul says," It's like herding cats."
So catch them while you can.

[TheSpecialist]

After watching numerous shows about commercial fishing, it is quite apparent that it does indeed have a huge negative affect on fisheries.

One show I saw, was about the Hawaiian fleet,said they actually keep their non target species for sale.
But after watching the show about the long liners, and see them discarding dead shorts, and dead sharks it left a bad taste in my mouth.

As far as angler registration goes I've seen what happens before. They do basically the same thing for migratory birds, it is called a hip permit. They will randomly call you and ask questions. Some of the questions are how many days or trips did you hunt? How long did you spend hunting?, how many of this duck did you shoot? how many of that duck did you shoot ?
Does this info help them? I doubt it, as there is nothing preventing someone from fudging the numbers whether it be accidentally ( you just don't honestly remember) or on purpose( you know but would rather they did not).

[JohnR]

As far as striped bass goes, more recreational "registered anglers" will give the guvmint a much bigger pool to ask questions and dresge info from. Think that proposed level of "science" data is bad, they currently cold call out of the blue to ask. A lot of people talk about how rarely they are approached by an EPO (not surveying) or an actual person working for NMFS doing a survey - happened to me once 10 years ago - is a next to non-existent.

So they will be able to base their surveys on talking to anglers that actually fish so their data will improve from horrible to just miserable.

As for who puts the biggest dent in the fishery along the coast - that's probably recreational by far

[Islander77]

Sorry to all for my statements earlier, was not trying to take this down a bad road. As far as what I said its true like it or not. And yes people throw back dead shorts as The Specialist points out.... So let me ask you this you gill hook a schoolie you keep it right??? cause I mean it gill hooked dead anyway right??? Yea exactly my point if you did and dem saw it you would get fined... well reality is dead or not short fish or to much fish on a boat costs them money... Oh and there fines start at the 25k mark not $50... and loss of time on water so...

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by Islander77

Sorry to all for my statements earlier, was not trying to take this down a bad road. As far as what I said its true like it or not. And yes people throw back dead shorts as The Specialist points out.... So let me ask you this you gill hook a schoolie you keep it right??? cause I mean it gill hooked dead anyway right??? Yea exactly my point if you did and dem saw it you would get fined... well reality is dead or not short fish or to much fish on a boat costs them money... Oh and there fines start at the 25k mark not $50... and loss of time on water so...

I would like to see a 1 fish no size limit for that exact reason. Most people would prefer to eat a small striper over a large anyway, and the big girls are breeders. JMO

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Islander77

NOT ROD AND REEL COMMERCIAL IM TALKING ACTUAL COMMERCIAL.. Rod and reel is totally different and wont be round much longer the way the industry is headed.....

Which is a major part of the problem.

The less selective the fisheries have gotten over the years, the smaller tha average catch, and the worse it has gotten. More selective fisheries should be WHERE we are headed.