Mass. weighs tougher protections for striped bass

[Canalman]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

It does, provided there's enough fish passing through the slot size, which depends on what was born in previous years. If you get a large year class of fish born it makes sense to me the managers would have to anticipate the age/length and implement the slot accordingly for it to provide any real benefit.

If a 28"-40" slot gets implemented but the fish are all either too big/too small its a wasted effort. The slot also has to coincide with good year classes of fish in order to provide the highest yield of protected breeders.

Righth there with ya. Look at the year classes though, this would protect the 2001 class which was the biggest ever recorded.

-Dave

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Jackbass

This is extremely legit. The bill has been sponsored for over a year and you are hearing about it now because it made it to committee. Once the committee decides it is worthy of a vote in the house it will be in fact a bill.

Yes, certainly aware of the effort having been made and certainly aware that it was going in - this was the first I saw of it coming out.

Originally Posted by Jackbass

The commercial striped bass industry in Massachusetts is second in take only to Maryland. Eliminating the commercial market in MA and reducing the Rec take to one fish a day goes a long way in conserving the striped Bass. I am surprised this is news to everyone.

The commercial bass industry in Mass may take second to Maryland but the rec take up and down the coats is tremendous and way overshadows the commercial take. IMO, we need to focus more to reduce the size taken out of the pie to protect the fish, than to decide who's piece is how big.

We really should be having these groups working on what the pie eats. Anything that just reallocates to another usergroup (or state) is really politics and not in the interest of the fish.

I don't commercial fish, I have not, I don't now, and unless there is a massive overpopulation in the future (yeh right) I probably won't then. I do release 99% of what I catch.

Originally Posted by Jackbass

Stripers Forever is hardly an Elitist group. It is a group that is run by volunteers has and spends every dime it receives to conserve and protect the Striped Bass. To think the members of Stripers Forever are a bunch of Orvis Casting Land Rover Driving elitists is simply ignorant.

I don't fall in line behind SF because I don't think it is the right fight, Rovers, Orvis, or not - and I don't think I have ever said that and if I have - not in a long time, while sober, or being even remotely serious about fisheries management.

Originally Posted by CowHunter

And you have absolutley not a CLUE as to what the Rec take is state to state, NO CLUE whatsoever. Just blame it on the Mass com's....

Nope people don't know, and that poorly pushed through fed license is probably going to help refine those numbers. but who is this directed to??

Originally Posted by Canalman

Wow, First I've heard of this. It's about time!

He lives

Originally Posted by Canalman

John, that does proect the fish you're suggesting we protect

Somewhat. It would be nice to be able to go and protect specific year classes or even define based on guestimate of male to female, and 50 other factors, but there is enough problems getting people to know who much they can legal take when it is one or two fish. A slot would be harder (and worth it IMO). A variable slot could be better in fantasy land but it would never work.

Originally Posted by Canalman

Biggest problem I see with the commercial fishery is that the guys who are good are trained assassins. They can hover over a body of big fish and do some real damage. Bodies of fish are vulnerable to being wiped out if the fleet anchors up over their heads. If these guys take their 30 fish from a pod of 100, that's a third of a migrating or resident pod of fish that has likely been programmed (genetically) to run a certain route, breed a certain river. Take a third away--that's bad enough--but what about when the other 15 boats within binocular range come motoring over to drop their yo-yo's how many are left then?

I've seen some great hauls come into the commercial place near my house---seen many 50's and a 64 there. But they don't hold a candle to the thousands of 30's I've seen stiff and covered with crushed ice. It really does need to stop.

We should not support the Striper Cup either though... that list of pin winner is like Schindlers List for striped bass

A high percentage of the commercial guys DO NOT NEED TO BE FISHING TO SUSTAIN THEMSELVES ANYWAY. It's a double-paid vacation for them.

If we are to keep the commercial fishery alive, you should have to prove that commercial fishing makes up more that 50% of your yearly income.

-Dave

Agree 70%

Originally Posted by Back Beach

It does, provided there's enough fish passing through the slot size, which depends on what was born in previous years. If you get a large year class of fish born it makes sense to me the managers would have to anticipate the age/length and implement the slot accordingly for it to provide any real benefit.

If a 28"-40" slot gets implemented but the fish are all either too big/too small its a wasted effort. The slot also has to coincide with good year classes of fish in order to provide the highest yield of protected breeders.

Originally Posted by Canalman

Righth there with ya. Look at the year classes though, this would protect the 2001 class which was the biggest ever recorded.

-Dave

2001 - was the biggest this decade and in top 3 overall. And purely anecdotal, the first major spawn of the 93 year class. Have anything to do with it? Dunno. Not in fisheries management. Then next year sucked but IIRC that was a bad drought year or flood year screwing up the spawn.

[Jackbass]

Cowman you are 100 percent correct no one has any iota of a clue what the Rec take is at this point in time. The Rec Catch that is reported is total catch including fish that are released to fight another day.

The new regs will only allow one fish to be taken per day. Which will further limit the recreational catch.

The MA comm season is in no way tightly regulated. The catch is under reported there is always fish being sold under the radar. Why is it that a large portion of commercial tags go unfilled every year? Do these people not use their license? The Registration is a joke.

[intrepid24]

Originally Posted by Jackbass

Cowman you are 100 percent correct no one has any iota of a clue what the Rec take is at this point in time. The Rec Catch that is reported is total catch including fish that are released to fight another day.

The new regs will only allow one fish to be taken per day. Which will further limit the recreational catch.

The MA comm season is in no way tightly regulated. The catch is under reported there is always fish being sold under the radar. Why is it that a large portion of commercial tags go unfilled every year? Do these people not use their license? The Registration is a joke.

I want to know why people equate com fishing w/ fish sold under the radar.....I AM SICK OF THAT %$%$%$%$ TALK !! LETS TALK ABOUT CHARTER GUYS SELLING THEIR CATCH OUT OF STATE, DAY AFTER DAY.

[CowHunter]

Nobody ever asked me for a catch report in Mass or NJ, nor ANYBODY else I know. The Rec catch is MUCH Higher. You know the Comm catch probably within 10% = / -. Mass is 10 Percent of comm catch coast wide. Stick with stripersforever, let em take away the com catch and give it to VA / MD / NC, no pin hookin there boys, gill netting or haul siegning much more fun. Nobody gives a rats ass about the comm guy in LI thats been breaking every law and making his own comm catch! Beat every case, give the quata to him.Either way, they shut mass down dont make a difference. My clients want dead fish! Im gonn kill the same 25-30k lbs or so Every season up and down the coast from April to January. Get range rover driving shmucks to make the rules, I know, change it to 20 inch cause then they can catch too with rhir fly rods. Regs stay the way they are they will never catch... Next Tuna4ever, Tog4ever, Fluke4ever, make em' all gamefish! Ban all commercial! Bunch of clowns writing 100 letters that spend 2 days on the water a season, inherited dadys money and have nothging better to do! Dont know what it is to work 4 a living, go pay 1K for an orvis guy to put em on fish!

[CowHunter]

Intrepid24, Well You should know by now, Everything is blamed on commercials!!!

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Intrepid24, Well You should know by now, Everything is blamed on commercials!!!

It's unfortunate, but many people stop caring about their long-term impact when money is motivating them. See: the financial meltdown, most politicians, Enron, etc.

[Back Beach]

[QUOTE=CowHunter;728380 Well You should know by now, Everything is blamed on commercials!!![/QUOTE]

That's not true. Anyone who is even remotely informed knows this isn't the case. Even with the abuses of the Mass commercial fishery it doesn't take a big stretch to realize the rec harvest is way out of control.

My biggest problem with the Mass commercial is we allow out of staters to get licenses and take our allocation... ice fishing and other illegal/shady practices abound too. Just due to the fact there's a place to sell or transport 30 fish at a time invites all this stuff. The taking of 1 million pounds of fish is a much lesser problem to me as its a small number of the total fish harvested coastwide.

If we implement a one fish per day rec season along with a daily limit of,say, six fish daily for charter operations, it will go a long way. Make the recs fish under the slot limit and the commercial will take care of itself. People will still abuse the commercial regardless, but its the recs we need to cut back.
In addition, we can still nuke New Jersey if its warranted...

[Doublerunner]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Nobody ever asked me for a catch report in Mass or NJ, nor ANYBODY else I know. The Rec catch is MUCH Higher. You know the Comm catch probably within 10% = / -. Mass is 10 Percent of comm catch coast wide. Stick with stripersforever, let em take away the com catch and give it to VA / MD / NC, no pin hookin there boys, gill netting or haul siegning much more fun. Nobody gives a rats ass about the comm guy in LI thats been breaking every law and making his own comm catch! Beat every case, give the quata to him.Either way, they shut mass down dont make a difference. My clients want dead fish! Im gonn kill the same 25-30k lbs or so Every season up and down the coast from April to January. Get range rover driving shmucks to make the rules, I know, change it to 20 inch cause then they can catch too with rhir fly rods. Regs stay the way they are they will never catch... Next Tuna4ever, Tog4ever, Fluke4ever, make em' all gamefish! Ban all commercial! Bunch of clowns writing 100 letters that spend 2 days on the water a season, inherited dadys money and have nothging better to do! Dont know what it is to work 4 a living, go pay 1K for an orvis guy to put em on fish!

I take offense to your post. I bust my hump every day of my life. I own my own business and go in day after day after day even when I don't feel well. And I do not sit behind a desk and I have no inheritance. And I have not paid any one to put me on to fish. I surf fish at times when most are sleeping. I put in my time and don't expect any one to hand anything to me. And by the way my chevy pick up has 190,000 miles on it and is my only vehicle

Your argument basically states that since other states can still have commercial fishing and that other comm's break the law then it's okay for everyone to do that. Come on man, at least be responsible.

Rec's may catch more fish but they kill far fewer. I dare say that 100% of the fish caught commercially are killed. Recreational fishermen kill very few of their catch....maybe 10% nationwide. For me it's 0% as I release them all....but that's just me. Plus rec's provide much more $$ for the economy than do comm's.

Personally I don't want to see any one's livelihood taken away but I feel saving the stock is more important than a few dollars. And don't call me a treehugger 'cause I am not. But without steps being taken to save the species it will be lost and then nothing will be left for anybody and the comm's will just move on to another species for their clients.

And again, I re-iterate that this is just one step in the right direction. The other is to stop the dragging for menhaden

[maddmatt]

Originally Posted by Doublerunner

I take offense to your post. I bust my hump every day of my life. I own my own business and go in day after day after day even when I don't feel well. And I do not sit behind a desk and I have no inheritance. And I have not paid any one to put me on to fish. I surf fish at times when most are sleeping. I put in my time and don't expect any one to hand anything to me. And by the way my chevy pick up has 190,000 miles on it and is my only vehicle

Your argument basically states that since other states can still have commercial fishing and that other comm's break the law then it's okay for everyone to do that. Come on man, at least be responsible.

Rec's may catch more fish but they kill far fewer. I dare say that 100% of the fish caught commercially are killed. Recreational fishermen kill very few of their catch....maybe 10% nationwide. For me it's 0% as I release them all....but that's just me. Plus rec's provide much more $$ for the economy than do comm's.

Personally I don't want to see any one's livelihood taken away but I feel saving the stock is more important than a few dollars. And don't call me a treehugger 'cause I am not. But without steps being taken to save the species it will be lost and then nothing will be left for anybody and the comm's will just move on to another species for their clients.

And again, I re-iterate that this is just one step in the right direction. The other is to stop the dragging for menhaden

double runner

just because u release all your fish doesn't mean they all live. the mortality rate is about 8-10% for released fish.

also

if u add up all the lbs of fish caught and killed on the million plus trips recs make in mass each year + the 8 - 10 % mortality on released fish u'd come up with a far more dead lbs of fish than the 1 million lbs the comms take.

so

if u really wanted to protect the most fish u'd ban the recs and catch and release and just let the comm's fish. think of all the carbon savings too!

[Doublerunner]

This will be my 20th post on this site. And since the quantity of your posts seem to be more important to some than the quality I will keep this short.

I believe giving "game fish" status to stripers will help the stock

I also believe a bigger issue is the dragging for menhaden. Take away the bait and the stripers go away as well. In addition to the taking of the bait the draggers also turn the ocean bottom into a barren desert. Depleting it of all plant and marine life

So "game fish" status is a start. There is still more to do

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Doublerunner

I also believe a bigger issue is the dragging for menhaden. Take away the bait and the stripers go away as well. In addition to the taking of the bait the draggers also turn the ocean bottom into a barren desert. Depleting it of all plant and marine life

Amen

Fix the forage. Dial back the overall keep. Poaching, while really weak and despicable, is not what puts the stock in trouble.