Mass. weighs tougher protections for striped bass

[MAKAI]

Seems like the Bass is the new Buffalo. Get them while you can.
Of all the fish that are on the brink. This one gets it from both sides.
There are so many one sided opinions as what to do we've become myopic.



C. H.
I have sold fish since 1970. Seen the halcyon days and the barren days. I gave my permit up 2 yrs ago, Just didn't feel like killing them anymore. But that's just me. I wish all states would be hook and line only, with the potential to let every fish breed a few times at least before being killed, but that's not going to happen. It's not a matter of who gets to keep what but keeping the fish population healthy. There are far more issues regarding that problem than just rec vs com. No easy answers.

[CowHunter]

Makai, I just have a problem with organizations like striper forever who are blaming the state of Striped Bass on Mass Comercial Pin Hookers. They are trying to change the rules so it is easier for rich yuppies to catch fish and have a "Super" day on the water with no regard for anyone else. There are morons who have no clue whatsoever, they just want to go out and catch countless of fish on their fly rods and not work for it.... They have no idea As to all the other factors that are causing the sad state of the striped bass fishery. Shutting down Mass commercial isnt going to make a bit of difference......

[Doublerunner]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Makai, I just have a problem with organizations like striper forever who are blaming the state of Striped Bass on Mass Comercial Pin Hookers. They are trying to change the rules so it is easier for rich yuppies to catch fish and have a "Super" day on the water with no regard for anyone else. There are morons who have no clue whatsoever, they just want to go out and catch countless of fish on their fly rods and not work for it.... They have no idea As to all the other factors that are causing the sad state of the striped bass fishery. Shutting down Mass commercial isnt going to make a bit of difference......

WOW. You just convinced me more than ever of what needs to be done. Looks like you're going to have to heed your own words

ADAPT. 'cuz change is coming

[numbskull]

Too many different valid reasons to fish, too many different user groups, too many conflicting agendas, too much misinformation, too little accurate information to make good decisions, too much shouting, too many insults, too many closed minds, too much rage against the machine, too much hate.

It is not just the bass that are in trouble.

[CowHunter]

Here in NJ we used to have a great summer fishery. Catch plenty of good sized fish off the surf and boats in June, July, August, September pluggin and eelin. It has been over ten years since that fishery disapeared...
Look at the Cape back beaches the run of migratory big fish from Late August thru november, that has deteriorated since 2002-2003 to being non-existant. Thousand Pound nights off the surf are a distant memory and probably will never come back. ill put stripersforever up there with the seal lovers...
The whole Rhode island Mass shoreline during the summer and fall months is but a single digit fraction of what it used to be.

Cant blame mass commercial for all that....

[CowHunter]

I always adapt and change, im not one complaining and trying to change the rules....The fishery has changed drastically with many factors causing it. I will always find fish, the people that cant adapt are trying to change the rules to bring the fish to them and in the end it wont make a difference. You always have to go to fish to catch fish....

[CowHunter]

Change may be coming, but it may not always be for the better.....

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Makai, I just have a problem with organizations like striper forever who are blaming the state of Striped Bass on Mass Comercial Pin Hookers. They are trying to change the rules so it is easier for rich yuppies to catch fish and have a "Super" day on the water with no regard for anyone else. There are morons who have no clue whatsoever, they just want to go out and catch countless of fish on their fly rods and not work for it.... They have no idea As to all the other factors that are causing the sad state of the striped bass fishery. Shutting down Mass commercial isnt going to make a bit of difference......

I think you need to be careful who you malign in your cause. It's a big, complex mess out there; Numbskull just stated it well above.

"There are morons who have no clue whatsoever, they just want to go out and catch countless of fish on their fly rods and not work for it...."

Change "fly rod" to "fishing rod" and that is what your average fisherman (blue collar and otherwise) wants. If you think otherwise you need to get out of your boat more often. Easy, shore based, and ideally daytime fishing. The blitz fisherman. That's just the reality of your recreational fisherman who hires you for charters, spends money on bait, plugs, tackle and more, buys a boat if he can afford it, etc. There's nothing wrong with that. (We'll ignore the effect he has by killing and keeping fish for the moment but that fact is of course tied tightly to some of the issues at hand...)

What that guy needs is bait along the shoreline since most fisherman don't fish from boats and can't "adapt" to an offshore striper fishery. They also, honestly, don't have the time to put in to follow the fish like you might.

I understand and agree with what you are arguing in a lot of respects about what's wrong with the Stripers Forever approach. Their cause and effect math doesn't entirely add up for me either. I'd just be careful who you kick dirt at as you wage war against them.

It might be good to be aware (and this is just my opinion) that what the general public likely wants really isn't that different from what Stripers Forever wants.

[CowHunter]

Pete G.... If the fishery changes and the fishery stays offshore there are no regulations you can impose to bring the fishery inshore. It may be decades if ever for that to happen, you never know. How the hell can you force the fishery to come inshore? Whipe out the bait offshore? I may be in the boat more, even though Ive spent thousands of hours over the years on the surf, but I know alot more than you think as to what is going on with the shoreline fishery in more than just one state. The guys may want a blitz, everybody does, especially comm guys! Truth of the matter is times change. The guys in the northeast are complaining about the surf, look at VA and NC. Imagine seeing Miles of gannets diving but the fish dont come onshore, EVER. That is the reality. The surf bites of VA, MD, NC are a thing of the past. What if the same holds true for new england. Off course you always get the stragglers. I will always adapt and change weather I like it or not? You think I like paying $4. a gallon, what about $5 or $6. Seee if you will make it a catch and release only gamefish coast wide. It will look like Kiptopeke VA in January...

[CowHunter]

Pete G.... Would Saltwaters edge business Begin to Boom if the Made striped Bass a gamefish only. Catch and release only??? I seriously doubt it...

[CowHunter]

http://www.nefsc.noaa.gov/sos/spsyn/...es/fig40_2.gif

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Pete G.... Would Saltwaters edge business Begin to Boom if the Made striped Bass a gamefish only. Catch and release only??? I seriously doubt it...

I don't have any interest in a no-take fishery. Just a healthy, accessible fishery for fisherman (rec and comm). That's what's good for MY interests.

Anyways, I'm arguing your cause, indirectly.

It just struck me that you took the classic "divided we fall" type stand; an everyone's against me and the commercials when I just don't see it that way.

I just think there's a LARGE middle of the road that is the average fisherman that has nothing against commercial fishing. Not many people would claim to understand ALL the issues, very few if any do.

My point was I wouldn't want to push that guy into a camp against what you want by basically telling him he's an idiot if he can't adapt. Or maybe explain more clearly why their view or point doesn't hold water instead of assuming they are "rich yuppies", "can't adapt".

For example, I feel the Stripers Forever "fish are more valuable alive then dead" doesn't hold water if the shore fisherman around here can't get at them. I wish they'd use their clout to help understand why baby bunker seem so scarce in the fall.

Just a tactical observation, take it for what it's worth.

Too bad there isn't a "Stripers Foreveryone" to get behind.

[numbskull]

So why is what is left of the striped bass population offshore?

Well, gee, what happened to the fish genetically ingrained to feed inshore............eaten for pleasure and profit.
What happened to the menhaden they eat.........taken commercially.
What about the squid.....taken commercially.
What about the scup.......taken commercially.
What about the lobsters......taken commercially.
What about the herring.....killed as commercial bycatch.

As for why there is bait explosion offshore.....well what happened to the fish that eat it?

Cod...........wiped out commercially.
Pollock........hammered commercially.
Tuna......nearly wiped out commercially.
Halibut........wiped out commercially.
Haddock........they're coming back because the enviro's got a judge involved.

Between wiping out codfish and creating an offshore niche full of sand eels......... hammering any breeding size bass that take an inshore route year after year.........and wiping out anything for bass to eat inshore......is it any mystery that what left of the striped bass population is offshore.

The public's demand for seafood and the commercial interests that benefit from that demand (with fishery management in their pocket) has GREATLY diminished the quality of the inshore fishing for all species targeted by recreational fishermen. Nothing wrong with that in general if you don't like to fish. Still, doing so has diminished the quality of the recreational fisherman's lives, and hurt the livelihood of those who depend on them.

Sadly, fishermen (recreational or commercial) are never going to fix this, too much stupidity and greed to put fishery recovery first. As the codfish situation has shown, the best hope are the enviro's and legal system (read CLF).........which is where this is headed soon. We'll live to see the restrictions, but not the benefits.