Bad News - it's official

[flatts1]

John,

I'll try to address the substance of your message and correct the outright false information.

===========================================

But now we have you, the defender of the common man (What the Hell is the "Common Man" anyway??)

It was a compliment. It used to be that an average Joe could post a report on S-B and not get grief for it.


YOU may be taking these fish from the best managed herring run in the world but you can't tell me that taking fish that have yet to spawn is no different than taking fish that are dropping down.

John, let's put a few things in perspective by quantifying what's really going on here.

It may surprise you to learn that...

- The run is only available 35 hours a week for the taking of herring.
- There are 168 hours in a week.
- This means that the run is only being pressured for about 20% of the week.
- To use your analogy, this leaves all of the mommy herring to reproduce 80% of the time.
- It would be nice if I could pick and choose which individual herring in the take area had already spawned but I can't. If you know of a way to do so then please tell us how.


Also, the 20% of the pressure that is on these fish is confined solely to a very small area that is watched by as many as three wardens. I went there this past Sunday and I came back with nothing. Why? Because there was only one hour left to take herring and there were too many others there in line taking too long to get them. This is not to say that run was being over pressured at all. In fact, a warden there told me that the river was packed with herring for a straight 6 miles (that's not a typo) but that the downstream herring were waiting for the sun to pop out before continuing upstream. Indeed, I checked 2 miles downstream and they were very plentiful there but you can't take them in that area.


This is what I call sound and REASONABLE management. But you know what? If you really think that the town of Middleboro shouldn't allow folks to take arguably pre-spawning herring, no matter how few, then I suggest that you write to them and express your concerns. That's what I would do if I felt the way you do. Why? Because, that way the right people would be involved and not just a bunch of folks whining in a vacuum.

Five bucks says you don't even pick up the phone.

There are a lot of ideas that are discussed here John and I dare say some of them are pretty darn good - but what good are good ideas if they never leave this forum.


The "author of this thread" did not attend this meeting as the wife of "the author of this thread", living in another state I might add, had to go home to watch the son of the "author of this thread" so the wife of the "author of this thread" could go to class. Now perhaps I could have left work even earlier, drive the 65 miles from work thru Boston and Providence, picked up my son, drive the 55 miles back to the club and drive back home before his 7:30 bedtime. All for a fisheries meeting in another state. Flaherty - get your head out of your butt and know what you are talking about please.


John, my original post was not aimed at singling you out and that is why I said "the author". It was aimed at everyone that didn't attend the hearing and had a knee-jerk reaction to the outcome.

April was a very lousy month for me...

- My Dad had not one but two heart attacks {he's stable now}
- My wife was rushed away in an ambulance last Monday morning and she had her gall bladder removed this past Friday
{she is still recovering and I've been taking care of her and our 10 month old since}
- A close friend had a miscarriage. {she's coping}

...I'm not trying to bore anyone here with my own troubles. But for the record, had any of these tragedies occurred on or near April 17th (the hearing date), then I too would have missed the meeting.

My point here though is that if I did miss the meeting, then I certainly wouldn't have initiated a doom and gloom post. Why? Because I wouldn't have all the facts.

John, I know that you do occasionally make it to a Mass hearing and that's great, but you did miss this one and it didn't stop you from criticizing those who actually were involved in the process. If somehow it hurts your feelings for me to point that out then I don't know what to say. I only mentioned it to show the context of your position - and that went for anyone else that didn't to the hearing but felt obligated to speak out.


I'm glad you can live with it. I'm glad that in the 2 or so years since you've gotten into saltwater fishing and have become an expert on all things saltwater


John, you are confused. I don't know where you came up with my saltwater experience as only 2 years but for the record, My Dad was born and raised in South Boston and some of my earliest and fondest memories are of fishing with him and my uncle at some of their favorite spots. These would include fishing for flounder and crabs under the Summer Street bridge - back when there was an "under" under that bridge (patrick knows what I mean). We also fished for flounder out on Squantum back when you could. Now you have to wait for the Mayor's derby if you want access. We also fished for bluefish at Carson Beach back when they still called a sub a spucky in Southie because that's what I would eat for lunch. I think I went on my first party boat when I was about 7 or 8 with the Yankee Fleet. It was the first of MANY such trips. Finally, I had a 28 foot wooden Pacemaker Sportfisherman back in the early '90s that I moored at a Southie yacht club.

True, I do consider freshwater fishing to be my real passion but I assure you Sir that I'm no stranger to the salt.

Furthermore, I'm quick learner and I like to think I do my homework before taking a position. Given your gross inaccuracy of my experience, I suggest you do the same.


Mike - show us the way to this panacea of knowledge that you must posess. Us Doom & Gloom Elitists need a leader such as yourself. We're obviously would rather babble about it.


Well, you could start with some of the published work from the Massachusetts Division of Marine Fisheries. I have emailed the links before but I'll post them here again since you're now so interested. You will learn more from documents like these than any thread on this or any other website. When you are done with these, then I can point you to some peer-reviewed scientific journals that I also find helpful. Then if you are really really nice to me, I can point you to a few folks that I trust at NMFS, NEFMC, RFA, and the advisory panel for ASMFC. But don't forget, if you really want to have an impact on the process that determines Mass regs, it's like Patrick said, "TOO LATE YOU FOOL"!

Enjoy reading these documents and take your time. You have three more years before the regs will be reconsidered. Don't worry though, I will be happy to assist you if you still need help then as well...

http://www.state.ma.us/dfwele/dmf/Ma...ment102402.pdf
http://www.state.ma.us/dfwele/dmf/Ma...cies102302.pdf
http://www.state.ma.us/dfwele/dmf/Ma...ents102302.pdf


Did the best science change in 4 months? Did the best science state that if the commercial allocation was increased by a third and the recreation believed "take" was increased by nearly a third, it would have no impact on the fishery? Did best available science, which as of a few months ago intimated that there might be a closed season if we took nearly a third more fish - change?


John, again I think you are confused. First of all the recreational take isn't being raised by nearly a third. It is being increased by 21% which isn't even a fourth. I know that a fourth sounds bigger than a third but as denominators get bigger it really means that the each slice of the pie is getting smaller. You're just going to have to trust me on this one because I don't have time to explain 4th grade math right now.

That said, I assume that you are referring to the science used during the discussion at the Amendment 6 hearing back in Dedham. The concern there about a closed season was centered around a fishery management plan at anything less than F .30. If we went to say F.25, which is what CCA advocated, then there was a real possibility that there could be a closed season. As Mr. Diodati said (when Patrick pushed him) at F .25 "someone's going to have to cut catch". However, as it turned out, ASMFC came back with a fisheries management plan at F .30 {thank god}. So the answer to your question is - NO. The best available science didn't change at all in 4 months and given the increases, we are still fishing at or less than F .30 - because we are mandated to. This is why I would trust this science rather than a bunch of well meaning but uninformed/misinformed/uninvolved folks on this and all the other websites out there.


Going to a meeting in Danvers near where you work or to a meeting near your home is significantly easier for a guy such as yourself


John, yet again you are demonstrably very confused. You really do need to do a little more research before making bogus assertions like these. I work in Needham and sometimes Taunton. Both are no where near Danvers. Are you sure you are from Mass? Anyway, I attend meetings wherever they are, Buzzards Bay, NH, Braintree, wherever.

Here's a little story for you...

As stated, I do work in Needham and the Amendment 6 hearing was in Dedham which is only 4 exits away from me. This is a quick ride right after work right? NOPE! I got a message from Patrick at 4:30 telling me that his ride fell through and he asked me if I could give him a ride to the hearing. Guess where Patrick lives - HULL! John, you do know where hull is right? That's right, I had to fight rush hour traffic from Needham to Hull to bring my club's president to the most important meeting of the year that started in 2 1/2 hours. Do you know what route 3A looks like at 5:30? I'm not complaining here and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I'm just saying that distance isn't an issue for me when it comes to these all important hearings.



Mike it is a "dam shame" that more people are not involved or show up to meetings of follow the newsletters and brochures but I also think I smell a case of meeting elitism on your part.


Fair enough. I'll try to tone it down in the future. {this is called accepting well deserved constructive criticism}

I hope that I have "participated here in a constructive manner" and helped to change some attitudes - but somehow I doubt it.

I'm going Cod fishing this weekend and I would ask you all to wish me luck so I could post a sweet report.

However, if the many folks here think that 2 fish at 28'' is "insane" or "dumb" then I think they would have a real problem if I posted a report here of limiting out with 10 fish at 23+'' (with any luck).

OH THE HORROR!!!!

Mike Flaherty
Signing Off

P.S. John, I sent you everything I had on F2F about 3 weeks ago. It is the same information that appeared in last month's MSBA newsletter on the front page. You may remember that this is the information that I asked you not to mention anything about it until further notice. Thank you for your interest and your patience. I will keep you informed when we are ready to make an announcement to the general public.