Another - you cant make this up

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

No offense intended... but the area I had to go to, along with the neighborhoods I passed on the way made me question the common sense of my vendor for being based in the area.

Just messin around...I know the place is a bit of a Chithole...That's why I moved out.

I don't know what he's vending but....Lynn has GE and North Shore Community College, is right on the Commuter Rail, is a quick 20 minute ride into Boston, Property is cheap, Labor is cheap, More Liqour licenses and Greek Sub Shops per capita than any other town on the north shore....and a 2 am Bar Closing Time....

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

Lynn was known for the city of sin

Lynn, Lynn the city of sin, you don't go out the way you came in.

Geesh, if you're gonna say it....ya gotta say it right.

Lynn Lynn, City of Sin, You never come out the way you went in..

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

Who would clean the house?

-spence

Someone Legal, perhaps not as cheaply.

Originally Posted by spence

Considering there are 12 million or so illegal aliens in this country, you'd think a sense of priority would place a housekeeper who's here simply to improve her life pretty low on the list.

Come in the front door legally and make a better life. This country cannot afford to not educate our kids, feed our citizens, protect our country, give everyone health care, social security, and then let everyone in the world wanting to make a better life a sneak across a border to do it. We're almost broke, we cannot afford to be the gift that keeps giving.

Originally Posted by spence

I think this is intended for those caught in the process, not for those already here, unless sufficient evidence existed to make a case...which is highly unlikely.

-spence

Immigrants can be classified as illegal for one of three reasons: entering without authorization or inspection, staying beyond the authorized period after legal entry, or violating the terms of legal entry.[54]
Section 1325 in Title 8 of the United States Code, "Improper entry of alien", provides for a fine, imprisonment, or both for any immigrant who:[55]

1. enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
2. eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
3. attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact.

The maximum prison term is 6 months for the first offense and 2 years for any subsequent offense.

Where is the ambiguity?

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Someone Legal, perhaps not as cheaply.

That was a joke.

Come in the front door legally and make a better life. This country cannot afford to not educate our kids, feed our citizens, protect our country, give everyone health care, social security, and then let everyone in the world wanting to make a better life a sneak across a border to do it. We're almost broke, we cannot afford to be the gift that keeps giving.

That's not the point. I'm all for better control of our borders, but from her perspective...she was just trying to make a better life.

Where is the ambiguity?

I don't think she could be charged under this section of code as she's already here...

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

That's not the point. I'm all for better control of our borders, but from her perspective...she was just trying to make a better life.




-spence

Spence - every criminal is "just trying to make a better life"

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Spence - every criminal is "just trying to make a better life"

Well, that's a stretch.

The simple fact is that most Americans, if put in her position, would have done exactly the same thing.

That doesn't mean it's right (legally speaking) mind you, but there are moral implications to be factored in. I've heard of a saying in South America that you "can't fault someone for trying to get by" and to some degree this is reflected in the US. Would you fault a parent for stealing to feel starving children?

I'm not sure it's really that easy to relate.

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, that's a stretch.

The simple fact is that most Americans, if put in her position, would have done exactly the same thing.

Americans (the U.S. kind) are more prone to change conditions in their country to their benefit rather than illegally migrating to another country. This country was founded by that type of revolution. There have been many revolutions south of the border. Perhaps they should keep trying till they get it right so their citizens don't have to leave. I hear they have some places that are amenable to the poor, like Cuba or Venezuala--good health care, everyone has a job or is taken care of. Those would be good models for the downtrodden to follow rather than risking everything to illegally sneak into such an ungrateful, oppressive, and selfish place like the U.S. Even Canada would be better, no?

That doesn't mean it's right (legally speaking) mind you, but there are moral implications to be factored in.

Which moral implications and whose morality? A great deal of the moral implications that resulted in U.S. law, it is said, derived from Judeo/Christian morality. But that morality also includes much tough love. The god of that morality can be very harsh with those who steal and and break the law. That morality does not preach salvation by government, but by personal conduct and personal charity.

I've heard of a saying in South America that you "can't fault someone for trying to get by" and to some degree this is reflected in the US. Would you fault a parent for stealing to feel starving children?

I'm not sure it's really that easy to relate.

-spence

I've heard that "saying" in North America as well. But "getting by" is vague, and when referring to criminal getting by, there is the implication that, if you're caught, nice try but you'll pay the penalty. One of the changes that Americans made was to provide for starving children--traditionally, much of that was done (and still is) by charity, but we've even legislated for such provisions. So it is not necessary to steal to feed starving children.

Does Whitman's illegal ex-maid have children?

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

That was a joke.


That's not the point. I'm all for better control of our borders, but from her perspective...she was just trying to make a better life.



I don't think she could be charged under this section of code as she's already here...

-spence

I figured it was tongue in cheek , almost funny too.

You're all for better control, except for those that want a better life? Then perhaps she should apply for legal immigration status and legally enter this country. Do you think immigrants that come through breaking our laws to get in generally will be law abiding citizens after some kind of amnesty? Sorry, I just have an issue with people breaking the laws and then being given wrist slaps at best.

I think our biggest problem with immigration is that we do not get enough of the best and brightest that come here legally and retain them. Instead, half the elected government turns and looks the other way for the main influx of immigrants we have. But as a country, we stopped looking forward to improve ourselves and instead became the baby sitter.

"I don't think she could be charged under this section of code as she's already here..."

Law no longer applies. Nice.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Americans (the U.S. kind) are more prone to change conditions in their country to their benefit rather than illegally migrating to another country. This country was founded by that type of revolution. There have been many revolutions south of the border. Perhaps they should keep trying till they get it right so their citizens don't have to leave. I hear they have some places that are amenable to the poor, like Cuba or Venezuala--good health care, everyone has a job or is taken care of. Those would be good models for the downtrodden to follow rather than risking everything to illegally sneak into such an ungrateful, oppressive, and selfish place like the U.S. Even Canada would be better, no?

I don't think revolutions are easy or spontaneous. They require the right combination of conditions at the right time. With the inherent corruption and poverty present in many countries, I can see how a more selfish solution might be attractive to some.

Although, with the natural resources, workforce and expanding business south of the border, it will be interesting to see how the economies and people respond over the next few decades.

Which moral implications and whose morality? A great deal of the moral implications that resulted in U.S. law, it is said, derived from Judeo/Christian morality. But that morality also includes much tough love. The god of that morality can be very harsh with those who steal and and break the law. That morality does not preach salvation by government, but by personal conduct and personal charity.

It's unfortunate that God chose to filter his morality through us imperfect people. (Note: This may not apply to those fortunate enough to speak directly to God.)

I've heard that "saying" in North America as well. But "getting by" is vague, and when referring to criminal getting by, there is the implication that, if you're caught, nice try but you'll pay the penalty.

Definitely a slippery slope there, but I'd think it's also why immigration issues are handled as both criminal and civil elements of Federal law.

One of the changes that Americans made was to provide for starving children--traditionally, much of that was done (and still is) by charity, but we've even legislated for such provisions. So it is not necessary to steal to feed starving children.

Agree, sometimes it does take a village

Does Whitman's illegal ex-maid have children?

Not sure but from what I gather she cleans a mean house.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, that's a stretch.

The simple fact is that most Americans, if put in her position, would have done exactly the same thing.


-spence

not true, most americans immigrated here legally. How can you say most would do the same thing?

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

not true, most americans immigrated here legally. How can you say most would do the same thing?

You misread the point, which is, that if you were born and grew up as she did, you would likely come to the US illegally if you thought it was the best way to get ahead because of limited opportunities at home.

-spence