High incoming/Low outgoing question. - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

Back Beach · 10-27-2010, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redlite

Every time I think I got it figured it, the fish don't cooperate.

Coincidentally, those are usually the nights I decide to come.

rizzo · 10-27-2010, 06:30 AM

I agree with Mike about the cold incoming water. Everything little thing can make a difference. I have one spot that is only good at the top of the flood during the big tide phases. Once the tides weaken, the fish don't get close enough to shore and theres not enough water in that spot. Some points fish good at 2 hours before and after slack, others only fish 2 hours before low. Some turn on 3 hours down.

The best thing you can do is focus on what is happening NOW, not follow rules of thumb that guys used 15 years ago (although keep it in the back of your mind if they're legit). Pick a few areas and fish them hard at different stages of wind and tides. Pay attention to the weather 3-4 days before. Don't stresss if you're striking out at a spot, just jump around a bit. For whatever reason, a spot could turn on late in the year, while all summer it sucked. Usually every area has a prime time and unique conditions turn them on. A spot may produce low to mid 40 pound fish for 9 nine years, then the fish have a good year for some better forage and theres your 50.

I fished a new area this year and used those same rules of thumb. Did horrible for big fish up until mid-july. Was getting pretty down about strking out again and again. Had no one to show me anything or network with. Each time out you learn stuff though, and eventually piece alot together. By spending all the time out there, I knew the areas I was fishing once things turned on and could "pattern" fish that thole stretch of shoreline and it worked well. The quicker you learn to figure things out on your own the better as its always changing. None of the best guys on here will give up the areas and windows they fish because they did the same thing to find theirs. Maybe 20 years from now they'll burn those spots, but by then it could be completely different.

numbskull · 10-27-2010, 07:49 AM

Obviously nowadays you don't need to learn any of this. Just surf the internet and rely on your contacts and cellphones to put you on fish. But if you have no friends and don't live near the canal than you can consider the following.

Current, ambush spots, and bait collectors more than tide stage are what really counts.

Don't overlook that current is often affected (or even created) by wind/wave direction, not just tide, particularly on rocky corners that end long stretches of open beach.

Big fish don't like to hold in open current, so you need something else, an edge, bar, rocks, to make a spot in current worth your time.

Currents past points often create a back eddy on the downcurrent side of the point. Don't ignore that.

Wind pushes bait. A shore that is mediocre when calm may get active after a few days of onshore wind.

Coves and bowls collect bait, but their real advantage is that they create areas with gentle water movement inside their corners where bait wanders and big fish like to wait.

Water depth is a factor if you are plugging. Shallow is OK, 4-8ft ideal, but deeper than 12-15ft requires clear conditions and minimal current if you hope for a fish to come up for your plug. Which is why chronic beginners use eels

.

Weed screws you up. Wind, current, tide, and lunar stage all have an effect.

Once you are pretty sure you know when and where fish will be, you stop fishing other times and places that are not "right" and miss out on lots of great fishing.....but since you never know it you can still feel smug about what you do know. Works for me.

numbskull · 10-27-2010, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rizzo

A spot may produce low to mid 40 pound fish for 9 nine years.

DAMN! All of a sudden my spots all seem like crap.

rizzo · 10-27-2010, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by numbskull

DAMN! All of a sudden my spots all seem like crap.

Its a surfcasting commandment that on the tenth year, a spot like this will produce a fifty. In that ten year period, you don't have to catch a 40 every year. If you lose a fish you think was bigger than 40 pounds it continues the streak! Also, rumors of other big fish being caught in the area count toward this rule. This works like clockwork, trust me, keep a log to know when you're close to catching a fifty. It just sucks when the rule resets on the 9th year!

Surfcasting is a secret society, not many will post the "real" commandments of surfcasting in an internet forum!

ProfessorM · 10-27-2010, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rizzo

Surfcasting is a secret society, not many will post the "real" commandments of surfcasting in an internet forum!

bummer I'm screwed

rizzo · 10-27-2010, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

bummer I'm screwed

Same here, I don't know any of them, just trying to make it look like I know what I'm talking about to infiltrate the secret society

Back Beach · 10-27-2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rizzo

Surfcasting is a secret society, not many will post the "real" commandments of surfcasting in an internet forum!

Pretty sure it was Frank D. who wrote, "You might be a member of the secret society by day, but you won't be alone tonight"

Rockfish9 · 10-27-2010, 08:44 AM

It changes season to season... year to year... sometimes day to day..... it's about current ( as in time oriented) patterens what works in a specific area.. patterens/tides that worked in June, may no longer apply in September... next spring it may change again...the only way to nail it down is to get out and fish...unfortunatly , where I fish... it is not like the vineyard .. where fish are stacked like cord wood waiting to jump on your plug

.. there are times.. especialy early in the season and in the dead of summer.. if you dont fish eels

.. you go fishless..it's just the cold hard facts... even in 3' of water....

this season is a good example of fish changing patterens.. I have a section of beach I fish.. ( Slip and the Professor can back this up) the entire incoming tide will produce, but once the tide tops off... game over... in years past, it's been only the first hour then they disappear... other years the top and first two of the drop...that section of beach remains pretty much unchanged over the last 20 years.. it all depends on bait that is available,,, the river also had some quirks this season... in a certain area, the last hour of the incoming and the first two of the drop produced fast and furious.. after that.. it's curtains...in the past it has always been the last two of the drop.. this pattern hels all spring, summer into the early fall...only experimentation and time on the water can truely point you in the right direction..

numbskull · 10-27-2010, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockfish9

. there are times.. especialy early in the season and in the dead of summer.. if you dont fish eels

.. you go fishless..it's just the cold hard facts... even in 3' of water....
.

That has not been my experience....and I drowned a lot of eels before I woke up to what I was missing.

Rockfish9 · 10-27-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by numbskull

That has not been my experience....and I drowned a lot of eels before I woke up to what I was missing.

see... you learned something today... go north and the fishing is not quite so easy...

wader-dad · 10-27-2010, 11:38 AM

Worst is when I fished a spot for a many years- figured out that the first 2 hours of the incoming when low is 11 pm on a new moon with the wind from the southwest in August or September is as close to guaranteed as you can get- and that is only a couple of nights- and I can't go because life gets in the way. Then wherever I have to be that's not at the spot- I am dying inside.