Anyone following what's going on in Wisconsin?

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by 179

What is going on in Wisconsin will soon be brought to RI, these unions are killing the states and must be brought down. The problem is there are few politicians willing to take the incredible media assault that will surely follow. For you bleeding heart liberals who think teachers are underpayed figure out their hourly rate based on a F/T job with more that 3-months off.

If I were Governor I would give these Teachers one more chance to get back to work or they are suspended without pay, don't like that then you are fired! The same could be said for the Union bought and payed for Democrat Representatives.

Probably illegal to fire them as they have a right to job actions, unless they have something like a "No Lay#^&#^&#^&#^& clause.

The problem is not the unions, it is the people who manage and agree to the contracts the union presents. The union bashing really needs to stop. If you had a job at Home depot, and one day the manager comes in and says to you 'John you now have to pay 60 a week for your health insurance instead of 15, would you be ticked? I bet you would, no one wants to take a step back from where they are.What you need to realize is this happens to people who work for companies with no bargaining. They chose that job, or career and they are now stuck with it. These people could band together and organize any time they want to, but they choose not to do it.

If we are in such dire straits in this country, why are millionaires like John Kerry drawing taxpayer paychecks. Let's face it they are not doing the job for the money, it is all the perks and benis. Free healthcare for life, pensions, free air travel, networking, partying etc. How come no one is bashing the politicians for all of their perks and beni's?

[scottw]

it appears that what the majority of Americans find offensive is the behaviour of the teachers...the unions are the problem, most Americans have dealt with teachers and/or unions and union workers in some form and understand the game and are quite tired of it

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

The problem is not the unions...The union bashing really needs to stop.

Thge last year my wife taught, all the teachers in our town got a letter from the union. The letter instructed all the teachers from serving "hall duty", which means that during the 5 minute break between classes, teachers were asked (by the school) to peer out into the hallway and make sure the kids were OK.

The union told the teachers to stop doing it, because that requirement was not specified in the contract, nor were the teachers getting paid for it.

So the union wasn't willing to let the teachers get off the rear-ends for 5 minutes to make sure the kids weren't killing each other.

Than there was that school in Rhode Island where 99% of the kids were performing below their grade level. The school asked the teacjhers to spend 1 lunch break per week tutoring kids, and the union sain "no, not unless weg get paid extra".

LIKE HELL the unions aren't the problem. Like hell.

Labor unions are following the same path that the civil rights movement, and the women's rights mvement, played in thsi country. These groups all fought some very important battles. When the important battles were won, instead of simply going away, these groups are not part of the problem.

These unions really overplayed their hands in WI. They have forced the governor to go "all in", but fortunately for him, he's got a royal flush, and the unions are holding crap. There might have been political room for the Governor to compromise a week ago...now he has to stand his ground...if he compromises at all, he looks weak.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

The problem is not the unions...The union bashing really needs to stop.

The last year my wife taught, all the teachers in our town got a letter from the union. The letter instructed all the teachers to stop serving "hall duty", which means that during the 5 minute break between classes, teachers were asked (by the school) to peer out into the hallway and make sure the kids were OK.

The union told the teachers to stop doing it, because that requirement was not specified in the contract, nor were the teachers getting paid for it.

So the union wasn't willing to let the teachers get off the rear-ends for 5 minutes to make sure the kids weren't killing each other.

Then there was that school in Rhode Island where 99% of the kids were performing below their grade level. The school asked the teachers to spend 1 lunch break per week tutoring kids, and the union said "no, not unless we get paid extra".

LIKE HELL the unions aren't the problem. Like hell. They won't move a muscle unless they get paid extra for it.

Labor unions are following the same path that the civil rights movement, and the women's rights mvement, played in thsi country. These groups all fought some very important battles. When the important battles were won, instead of simply going away, these groups are now part of the problem.

These unions really overplayed their hands in WI. They have forced the governor to go "all in", but fortunately for him, he's got a royal flush, and the unions are holding crap. There might have been political room for the Governor to compromise a week ago...now he has to stand his ground...if he compromises at all, he looks weak.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

The problem is not the unions, it is the people who manage and agree to the contracts the union presents. The union bashing really needs to stop.

I'm forced to deal with multiple different unions throughout the country. Every single encounter I have with them reaffirms the stereotype. They take longer to do the job and have stifling restrictions on clients. If we are working with a Union, the labor budget needs to be increased by 50% - consistently.

I have clients that have stopped hosting conferences in places like NYC, Chicago and San Francisco because the Unions are more expense, provide poor service and do a bad job.

The "well, we have to get paid too" mentality is the problem. The managers aren't the problem, the Union philosophy of Entitlement is the problem.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

If we are working with a Union, the labor budget needs to be increased by 50% - consistently.

Any rational person, unless they get their money from labor unions, will say the same thing.

And why do these labor unions get to force people to join them? If I want to be a public schoolteacher, why am I forced to join a damn union? Why do I have to pay dues to an uber-liberal organization, which gives zillions of dollars to liberal politicians (the more liberal, the better) and liberal causes like Planned Parenthood?

Anyone want to tell me how that's fair?

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

(the more liberal, the better) and liberal causes like Planned Parenthood?

Jim,
You're improving.
page 3 before you took the abortion u-turn

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Jim,
You're improving.
page 3 before you took the abortion u-turn

I can't give him crap though because he and I are on the same page when it comes to the ridiculousness of Unions.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Jim,
You're improving.
page 3 before you took the abortion u-turn

If I get banned from this board, so be it, I'm tired of this dance...

Rockhound, instead of changing the subject, how about answering my god-damned question? Is that too much to ask?

Yeah, I know, I get worked up about silly little things like the whosale slaughter of 4000 babies a day. I'm always making something out of nothing.

Since you didn't even attempt to address the question I asked, I'll take that to mean you have no answer. Because no one should have their pay involuntarily confiscated and given to political causes that are contrary to your ethics.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

If I get banned from this board, so be it, I'm tired of this dance...Rockhound, instead of changing the subject, how about answering my god-damned question? Is that too much to ask?

What question? For the record, you changed the subject with the leap between union dues and planned parenthood

Unions typically fund those that help the unions. Just like the Koch give money to those that support their causes. Where is the link between the public employees union and planned parenthood?

Seriously, you're like arguing with the dog from Up, but instead of getting distracted by a squirrel, it's the 'Abortion' right turn.

Do I think everything about every union is fair? Of course not. Do I think that when a union supports a politician they all run out and vote for said pol? No. Do I think the benefit to the workers, in things like healthcare and worker rights outweigh the dues, in most cases, yes.

As far as getting banned, this isn't the other site, and I'm more apt to ignore list people than report them.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

What question? For the record, you changed the subject with the leap between union dues and planned parenthood

Unions typically fund those that help the unions. Just like the Koch give money to those that support their causes. Where is the link between the public employees union and planned parenthood?

Seriously, you're like arguing with the dog from Up, but instead of getting distracted by a squirrel, it's the 'Abortion' right turn.

Do I think everything about every union is fair? Of course not. Do I think that when a union supports a politician they all run out and vote for said pol? No. Do I think the benefit to the workers, in things like healthcare and worker rights outweigh the dues, in most cases, yes.

As far as getting banned, this isn't the other site, and I'm more apt to ignore list people than report them.

well, union dues and membership generally are not voluntary and neither is abortion(for the aborted).....
isn't planned parenthood an inaccurate name?...shoudn't it be "unplanned"...and....anything but "parenthood"?
they both, through their actions, produce a lot of democrat voters for life

only because you asked Bry

my favorite argument against abortion came from one of the founders of the suffrage movement "women's rights" who said, (paraphrasing) we've worked very long and hard to reach a time when we are not treated by society as property, it would be wrong to treat our unborn children as property...you get the idea....

ask yourself...which will land you in more trouble currently? stepping on a piping plover..... or aborting a/your child?


what is "the Koch"?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

What question? For the record, you changed the subject with the leap between union dues and planned parenthood

Unions typically fund those that help the unions. Just like the Koch give money to those that support their causes. Where is the link between the public employees union and planned parenthood?

Seriously, you're like arguing with the dog from Up, but instead of getting distracted by a squirrel, it's the 'Abortion' right turn.

Do I think everything about every union is fair? Of course not. Do I think that when a union supports a politician they all run out and vote for said pol? No. Do I think the benefit to the workers, in things like healthcare and worker rights outweigh the dues, in most cases, yes.

As far as getting banned, this isn't the other site, and I'm more apt to ignore list people than report them.

"What question?"

I'm sorry, I assumed you read my post before you insulted me for its content. Here is what I wrote...

"why do these labor unions get to force people to join them? If I want to be a public schoolteacher, why am I forced to join a damn union?"

"Where is the link between the public employees union and planned parenthood? "

I have 2 brothers who teach, both have shown me financials from their union that show donations to Planned Parenthood. I don't see why someone who wants to teach kids is forced into giving money to causes that may be reprehensible to them. I think that's a legitimate question.

"it's the 'Abortion' right turn"

I picked Planned Parenthood, which liberals are always saying is about a lot more than abortion, by the way. But I could easily have said, "why are teachers forced to give money to unions who donate to liberal politicians"? It wasn't any right-turn, I'm talking about the insane, absolute power that these unions have.

[Sweetwater]

What is going on in Wisconsin is just the beginning of a sort of class warfare arising between unionized gov't workers and the private sector. Much has changed in the private sector even before the 2008 economic crash in terms of job loss, wage freezes and reductions, and reduced benefits (or increased personal contribution to benefits) in the private sector.

People in the private sector no longer wish to pay taxes for benefits that they cannot afford for themselves. A friend said to me (on another website), "Don't forget gov't employees pay taxes too!" However, this is not the point, it's like two guys pay a $5 cover charge to enter a nightclub and for one guy (union) it's an open bar and the other guy (private) still has to pay for every drink.

Some statistics from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics.

2010, median earnings of unionized government workers were 25% higher than earnings of private workers and 17% higher than non-unionized gov’t workers. (and yes, I've heard the questionable argument about adjusting for education levels)

95% of unionized gov’t workers have a defined benefit pension plan compared to only 21% of private sector workers -- over 4 times as many! Defined plans can be worth many 10's of thousands of dollars lifetime, depending on wage scale.

Health and dental plans: Unioned gov’t workers (95% and 71% respectively). Private sector workers (71% and 46% respectively).

Further, private sector workers (when they do have such benefits) typically have to contribute more into the plan than unionized gov't workers.

Finally, another argument that pro-union gov't workers tout is that many gov't workers do not qualify for social security (this varies from state to state). However, those who don't qualify never paid in FICA! Would I love to have not paid in FICA for the last 35 years and put that into personal retirement plan? You damned straight I would.

I hope the Governor of Wisconsin shuts those unions down..and would love to see major reform in the "commonwealth" of Massachusetts.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Sweetwater

and would love to see major reform in the "commonwealth" of Massachusetts.

Will never, ever happen. The state and towns will go bankrupt, yet still not see a need for changes.

Nice post Paul.

[Sweetwater]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Will never, ever happen. The state and towns will go bankrupt, yet still not see a need for changes.

JohnnyD, when did you become so cynical?

I'm counting on your generation to march on Beacon Hill and fight for change!

By the way, I just read that Guitarist Tom Morello (Rage Against the Machine) called Governor Walker "the Mubarak of the Midwest." Now, let's see, Mubarak enriched himself on the backs of everyday workers and afforded his small, elite group of friends benefits not available to others. So, I ask you, who looks more like Mubarak, the governor or the unions?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Sweetwater

JohnnyD, when did you become so cynical?

I'm counting on your generation to march on Beacon Hill and fight for change!

By the way, I just read that Guitarist Tom Morello (Rage Against the Machine) called Governor Walker "the Mubarak of the Midwest." Now, let's see, Mubarak enriched himself on the backs of everyday workers and afforded his small, elite group of friends benefits not available to others. So, I ask you, who looks more like Mubarak, the governor or the unions?

Being a rockstar doesn't make you an authority on anything, I wish Bono would realize that. Unfortunately, you have the MTV generation who thinks that just because a person is on tv, that they know what they're talking about.

When a celebrity speaks, the Sheeple will follow.

You know me well enough, I've always been cynical. People are lazy and unless their their hand is forced, nothing will change. The British had to lay of 100,000 government workers. Why? Not because they foresaw problems, but because they were out of money.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sweetwater

People in the private sector no longer wish to pay taxes for benefits that they cannot afford for themselves. :

Bingo.

These unions like collecvtive bargaining? Really?

I have news for them. The taxpayers of Wisonsin did some collective bargaining of their own last November, it was called an "election". The majority of the citizenry voted for the party who said they would cut union benefits, and guess what, that's what they're doing.

What's good for the goose...

Hey Mass. isn't that hopeless, they elected Scott Brown, right?

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

\
Hey Mass. isn't that hopeless, they elected Scott Brown, right?

What's he turning into now.. Book Deal, Major Speaking bucks, Insider Deals. They all turn into trough feeding plutocrats, living off the sheeple

[Sweetwater]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Bingo.

These unions like collecvtive bargaining? Really?

I have news for them. The taxpayers of Wisonsin did some collective bargaining of their own last November, it was called an "election

Two thumbs up to Jim!!