Humor

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Only a liberal would dismiss Texas' success as being based on oil, and then refuse to expand on that success elsewhere.

Where should we expand this too? Show me CT's rich oil reserves or ideal locations for a refinery?

why do yo assume this liberal is anti-drilling. I'm not pro-anwar, but not anti, especially not offshore.

we absolutely need to transition from fossil fuels, but that won't happen overnight.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Where should we expand this too? Show me CT's rich oil reserves or ideal locations for a refinery?

why do yo assume this liberal is anti-drilling. I'm not pro-anwar, but not anti, especially not offshore.

we absolutely need to transition from fossil fuels, but that won't happen overnight.

"Where should we expand this too? Show me CT's rich oil reserves or ideal locations for a refinery? "

You really don't know? Oil companies are DYING to exploit the deposits in Alaska (both in ANWAR and in Prudhoe Bay), the Gulf Of Mexico, and in the Dakotas. It might not help CT, because liberal economic policies have doomed this state. But if we can replicate Texas' success in a half-dozen other places (and as an added bonus, reduce our dependency on middle eastern oil), why on Earth wouldn't we want to do that?

"why do yo assume this liberal is anti-drilling"

Because most liberals are adamantly opposed to drilling.

"we absolutely need to transition from fossil fuels, but that won't happen overnight"

Agreed. In the meantime, countries that produce oil will get filthy rich. We can get rich, or we can make other countries rich, some of which are not very nice places. I simply do not see any rational argument against exploiting our natural resources. It's like sitting on a winning lottery ticket.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

In the meantime, countries that produce oil will get filthy rich. We can get rich, or we can make other countries rich, some of which are not very nice places. I simply do not see any rational argument against exploiting our natural resources. It's like sitting on a winning lottery ticket.

Yeah, but what about the moose?
I'm all for conservation, but what is more important at this point,
being held over a barrel by foreign oil, or creating independence
and creating jobs by drilling, refining etc. ?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Yeah, but what about the moose?
I'm all for conservation, but what is more important at this point,
being held over a barrel by foreign oil, or creating independence
and creating jobs by drilling, refining etc. ?

Remmeber, that deciding to tap into oil doesn't mean you lay waste to the environment. Unlike most I suspect, I've been north of the Arctic circle in Alaska, I've seen the pipeline, and I've seen massive herds of carbou right there, herds whose numbers are increasing.

Norway's entire economy is based on oil, and it's one of the most beautiful places you could imagine.

I'm all for conservation too, but not silliness to the point where it becomes economic suicide.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I'm all for conservation too, but not silliness to the point where it becomes economic suicide.

Summed up nicely.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Remmeber, that deciding to tap into oil doesn't mean you lay waste to the environment. Unlike most I suspect, I've been north of the Arctic circle in Alaska, I've seen the pipeline, and I've seen massive herds of carbou right there, herds whose numbers are increasing.

Norway's entire economy is based on oil, and it's one of the most beautiful places you could imagine.

I'm all for conservation too, but not silliness to the point where it becomes economic suicide.

Yea, Norway is a great example

Small population and a mostly socialist government that "takes" the oil oil revenues and invests them around the world. Because the government is basically running their drilling they don't have the energy industry clamoring for deregulation. The Gulf spill likely wouldn't have happened there because the government mandates safety equipment that US producers find hurts shareholder value.

Your declaration that liberals are anti-drilling is equally absurd. By your reasoning Obama is a radical liberal and yet when he became President he...MOVED TO INCREASE OFFSHORE DRILLING!

The objection to drilling ANWR isn't that it's going to kill caribu, it's that human activity has the potential to destroy one of the few perfectly balanced ecosystems left on this planet.

Can it be done? Perhaps if we act more like Norway...

The US doesn't have enough oil to just open up more drilling. Energy independence will only come with alternative technologies, more frugal consumers all back filled by the carbon fuels we do have in abundance like natural gas and coal which we know how to produce and use safely assuming proper regulations are in place.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Yea, Norway is a great example

Your declaration that liberals are anti-drilling is equally absurd. By your reasoning Obama is a radical liberal and yet when he became President he...MOVED TO INCREASE OFFSHORE DRILLING!

The objection to drilling ANWR isn't that it's going to kill caribu, it's that human activity has the potential to destroy one of the few perfectly balanced ecosystems left on this planet.

Can it be done? Perhaps if we act more like Norway...

The US doesn't have enough oil to just open up more drilling. Energy independence will only come with alternative technologies, more frugal consumers all back filled by the carbon fuels we do have in abundance like natural gas and coal which we know how to produce and use safely assuming proper regulations are in place.

-spence

Obama said he was going to open it up but instead shut it down, You have to look at what he does..not what comes out of his mouth.

The US has more enviromental restrictions and precautions then most of the country's that now drill on their own land. Are you saying that Norway is better at this then us??? I call BS.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by buckman

Obama said he was going to open it up but instead shut it down, You have to look at what he does..not what comes out of his mouth.

The US has more enviromental restrictions and precautions then most of the country's that now drill on their own land. Are you saying that Norway is better at this then us??? I call BS.

It was shut down with a pretty decent reason. How many wells out there lack the relatively inexpensive blow out protector that could have significantly reduced the spill of last April? If the answer is we don't know, then yes, Norway and others may be doing this better than us.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Yea, Norway is a great example

Small population and a mostly socialist government that "takes" the oil oil revenues and invests them around the world. Because the government is basically running their drilling they don't have the energy industry clamoring for deregulation. The Gulf spill likely wouldn't have happened there because the government mandates safety equipment that US producers find hurts shareholder value.

Your declaration that liberals are anti-drilling is equally absurd. By your reasoning Obama is a radical liberal and yet when he became President he...MOVED TO INCREASE OFFSHORE DRILLING!

The objection to drilling ANWR isn't that it's going to kill caribu, it's that human activity has the potential to destroy one of the few perfectly balanced ecosystems left on this planet.

Can it be done? Perhaps if we act more like Norway...

The US doesn't have enough oil to just open up more drilling. Energy independence will only come with alternative technologies, more frugal consumers all back filled by the carbon fuels we do have in abundance like natural gas and coal which we know how to produce and use safely assuming proper regulations are in place.

-spence

"Your declaration that liberals are anti-drilling is equally absurd."

No, it's not. Liberals are the reason why we arent drilling in mor eplaces.

"By your reasoning Obama is a radical liberal"

Spence, that's not my reasoning, it's a rational conclusion based on the man's words and actions.

"Norway is a great example "

It's a spot-on example of my theory that you can exploit natural resources without destroying the landscape.

"when he became President he...MOVED TO INCREASE OFFSHORE DRILLING!"

He also shut it down after the spill, and has denied all kinds of requests for drilling. Spence, it's not the conservatives that are stoping companies from expanding drilling.

"The US doesn't have enough oil to just open up more drilling. "

You have absolutely no way of knowing that. The oil companies are dying to expand drilling at their own expense. That tells me that those guys think it will be worth their while, and I bet they know ALMOST as much as you about these things.

"The objection to drilling ANWR isn't that it's going to kill caribu"

That's one of the reasons that I keep hearing...

"Energy independence will only come with alternative technologies,"

I don't know how old you are. I'm 41, and I've heard that my whole life that we need to move away from oil. It will not happen this decade. In teh meantime, we can get rich, or watch others get rich.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Your declaration that liberals are anti-drilling is equally absurd."

No, it's not. Liberals are the reason why we arent drilling in mor eplaces.

"By your reasoning Obama is a radical liberal"

Spence, that's not my reasoning, it's a rational conclusion based on the man's words and actions.

"Norway is a great example "

It's a spot-on example of my theory that you can exploit natural resources without destroying the landscape.

"when he became President he...MOVED TO INCREASE OFFSHORE DRILLING!"

He also shut it down after the spill, and has denied all kinds of requests for drilling. Spence, it's not the conservatives that are stoping companies from expanding drilling.

I think you're confusing liberalism and conservation. There are plenty of conservatives who believe in conservation ironically enough. The forces pushing hardest to expand drilling are from industry. I believe most people regardless of party want a balance of both.

The debate is really about conservation vs exploitation.

Norway, you're shining star also shut down deep water drilling after the Gulf spill. Then both Norway and the US lifted the temporary bans after the issue had been studied.

"The US doesn't have enough oil to just open up more drilling. "

You have absolutely no way of knowing that. The oil companies are dying to expand drilling at their own expense. That tells me that those guys think it will be worth their while, and I bet they know ALMOST as much as you about these things.

There's a surplus of evidence supporting this position.

The oil companies want to exploit these fields because they represent some of the last "easy oil" to extract. The old wells are going dry and drilling is being moved further offshore or more costly extraction has to be used for oil sands etc...

I don't know how old you are. I'm 41, and I've heard that my whole life that we need to move away from oil. It will not happen this decade. In teh meantime, we can get rich, or watch others get rich.

You're probably not old enough to remember the OPEC crisis under Carter. I'm about your age and don't either. This event was a warning that Carter today is still mocked for trying to get Americans to listen to.

Two interesting stats I just googled up.

1) Domestic production back then was ~40-45% higher than it is today

2) Domestic consumption back then was ~15% lower than it is today

There's a reason you've been hearing this your entire life.

-spence