Humor

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Yea, Norway is a great example

Small population and a mostly socialist government that "takes" the oil oil revenues and invests them around the world. Because the government is basically running their drilling they don't have the energy industry clamoring for deregulation. The Gulf spill likely wouldn't have happened there because the government mandates safety equipment that US producers find hurts shareholder value.

Your declaration that liberals are anti-drilling is equally absurd. By your reasoning Obama is a radical liberal and yet when he became President he...MOVED TO INCREASE OFFSHORE DRILLING!

The objection to drilling ANWR isn't that it's going to kill caribu, it's that human activity has the potential to destroy one of the few perfectly balanced ecosystems left on this planet.

Can it be done? Perhaps if we act more like Norway...

The US doesn't have enough oil to just open up more drilling. Energy independence will only come with alternative technologies, more frugal consumers all back filled by the carbon fuels we do have in abundance like natural gas and coal which we know how to produce and use safely assuming proper regulations are in place.

-spence

"Your declaration that liberals are anti-drilling is equally absurd."

No, it's not. Liberals are the reason why we arent drilling in mor eplaces.

"By your reasoning Obama is a radical liberal"

Spence, that's not my reasoning, it's a rational conclusion based on the man's words and actions.

"Norway is a great example "

It's a spot-on example of my theory that you can exploit natural resources without destroying the landscape.

"when he became President he...MOVED TO INCREASE OFFSHORE DRILLING!"

He also shut it down after the spill, and has denied all kinds of requests for drilling. Spence, it's not the conservatives that are stoping companies from expanding drilling.

"The US doesn't have enough oil to just open up more drilling. "

You have absolutely no way of knowing that. The oil companies are dying to expand drilling at their own expense. That tells me that those guys think it will be worth their while, and I bet they know ALMOST as much as you about these things.

"The objection to drilling ANWR isn't that it's going to kill caribu"

That's one of the reasons that I keep hearing...

"Energy independence will only come with alternative technologies,"

I don't know how old you are. I'm 41, and I've heard that my whole life that we need to move away from oil. It will not happen this decade. In teh meantime, we can get rich, or watch others get rich.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Your declaration that liberals are anti-drilling is equally absurd."

No, it's not. Liberals are the reason why we arent drilling in mor eplaces.

"By your reasoning Obama is a radical liberal"

Spence, that's not my reasoning, it's a rational conclusion based on the man's words and actions.

"Norway is a great example "

It's a spot-on example of my theory that you can exploit natural resources without destroying the landscape.

"when he became President he...MOVED TO INCREASE OFFSHORE DRILLING!"

He also shut it down after the spill, and has denied all kinds of requests for drilling. Spence, it's not the conservatives that are stoping companies from expanding drilling.

I think you're confusing liberalism and conservation. There are plenty of conservatives who believe in conservation ironically enough. The forces pushing hardest to expand drilling are from industry. I believe most people regardless of party want a balance of both.

The debate is really about conservation vs exploitation.

Norway, you're shining star also shut down deep water drilling after the Gulf spill. Then both Norway and the US lifted the temporary bans after the issue had been studied.

"The US doesn't have enough oil to just open up more drilling. "

You have absolutely no way of knowing that. The oil companies are dying to expand drilling at their own expense. That tells me that those guys think it will be worth their while, and I bet they know ALMOST as much as you about these things.

There's a surplus of evidence supporting this position.

The oil companies want to exploit these fields because they represent some of the last "easy oil" to extract. The old wells are going dry and drilling is being moved further offshore or more costly extraction has to be used for oil sands etc...

I don't know how old you are. I'm 41, and I've heard that my whole life that we need to move away from oil. It will not happen this decade. In teh meantime, we can get rich, or watch others get rich.

You're probably not old enough to remember the OPEC crisis under Carter. I'm about your age and don't either. This event was a warning that Carter today is still mocked for trying to get Americans to listen to.

Two interesting stats I just googled up.

1) Domestic production back then was ~40-45% higher than it is today

2) Domestic consumption back then was ~15% lower than it is today

There's a reason you've been hearing this your entire life.

-spence