Circle Hook / YoYo Rig Comment Period and Hearings

[big jay]

Patrick's right about the Circle hook proposal - it did come from the Cape Cod Charter Boat Association. It was a reaction to the ridiculous # of dead short fish that were floating during the month long eel bite at P-town during the 2009 season.

I personally think circles are even more effective than J's (again, from my boat that doesn't count here) - but it is funny to see my Father fish circles - he's been using J's for so long, he can't possible help himself from setting the hook, no matter how hard he tries.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

I fished circles for tarpon in Florida and it was really difficult to get used to;"point the rod tip towards the fish and just reel".You literally can not set the hook with those things. I can see myself ignoring both of these ideas and taking my chances,circle high/low rigs? Tell me this is all a joke.

For a realistic idea that will have a positive impact on the fishery we need to reduce the catch to 1 at 36".Places like the canal where the recs have a sizable impact will be policed by the anglers themselves.

There are pleanty of charter boat captains who set no catch limits on their charters and allow a few extras for the sports,especially the nighttime variety. This also has to cease for the bass to have a chance to flourish.

[trapperpierre]

.....striper Maniac & I were interjecting some "spin off stuff"..I will start a thread where it belongs--me bad--in The Tavern section(i.e. not made in USA ETC.)

........and so called "Petitions" sent to DMF--in the yoyo review-is based on several accounts of fish being damaged-not done in a scientific survey...only based on very limited data...if the trend is to have the general public manage our fisheries....not based on a scientific survey-based on all the elements of proper established and accepted scientific research method....WE all are in trouble......then we should abolish all marine scientists employed by the MA DMF....and let the general public create & remove fishery regulations....

even worse, is when state asemblies take on the duty of Wildlife & Fisheries managment.....

..show me the data that is inrefutable evidence in the proper quanities...

.....my real interest is not so much in defending any methods engaged in a fishery...........please show me---in documented detail the results of extensive research to justify the said changes desired... show me that data from the scientist & managers...not limited data and fueled by emotion or passions that distain fishing methods not used by a particular group

.....the process of entering "Petitions" are part of the process..........we should have faith in the established system

....is easy to pack a hearing with large numbers of people trained to say similar views-not necessarily based on fact....

we are at a dangerous cross roads of who or whom becomes the fishery managers

Note aside: Good news---there has a susbtancial sucess in grafting American Chestnut trees to establish growth---some day--we can use them again for whatever purpose...

In the recent past-I spent 6 years -as a member on the ASMFC SB advisory panel.....I have a bit of knowledge how the reglatory system operates....I was not reapointed by The Gov. of our lovely state---when I expressed my concerns for a reduce coastwide harvest of beloved menhaden...and introduced the concept of establishing a seperate user catogorie fof the SB resource.......for Charter/headboat Com.-------a utlization of the resource that removes vast poundage of fish(striped bass)--for bucks$$.

[MAKAI]

For accurate accountability, the charter/ headboat fleet should be a separate designation. See adjective one, could make the argument that they are more commercial fishing than the guys selling fish out of their personal boats.

[riff_raff]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

For accurate accountability, the charter/ headboat fleet should be a separate designation. See adjective one, could make the argument that they are more commercial fishing than the guys selling fish out of their personal boats.

What you are forgetting is the charter/headboat fleet is not "fishing". Their clients are fishing. No different than any other guy sitting on the shore or in his own or buddies boat. They just rent a ride and hire a guide.

Jon

[MAKAI]

Originally Posted by riff_raff

What you are forgetting is the charter/headboat fleet is not "fishing". Their clients are fishing. No different than any other guy sitting on the shore or in his own or buddies boat. They just rent a ride and hire a guide.

Jon

The captain is engaged in an act of fishing commerce, we are talking semantics here. I work part time on a charter boat. The goal all the time is to get the maximum we can keep . After all that is what we are getting " paid " to do. If I am rec fishing it's never about the maximum to take home, I hardly ever keep fish. So do most of the people I know that fish a bit. A couple a year suffice.

My point is to have 3 designations for Bass pie.

1- True commercial.
2- Charter/ headboat fishing.
3- Recreational.

1 and 2 are always going after max take, for money.
3 is not.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

The captain is engaged in an act of fishing commerce, we are talking semantics here. I work part time on a charter boat. The goal all the time is to get the maximum we can keep . After all that is what we are getting " paid " to do. If I am rec fishing it's never about the maximum to take home, I hardly ever keep fish. So do most of the people I know that fish a bit. A couple a year suffice.

My point is to have 3 designations for Bass pie.

1- True commercial.
2- Charter/ headboat fishing.
3- Recreational.

1 and 2 are always going after max take, for money.
3 is not.

The Captain will only kill as many fish as the charter wants to kill (up to the limit). Some folks don't kill any, some only kill one or two, some kill the max. Its just like guys fishing from private boats or from shore.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by riff_raff

What you are forgetting is the charter/headboat fleet is not "fishing". Their clients are fishing. No different than any other guy sitting on the shore or in his own or buddies boat. They just rent a ride and hire a guide.

Jon

When you hire a charter, you don't need your own fishing license. So the government has already decided that charter boats are in a distinct category of their own. Same goes for when they are fishing for BFT, separate designation from recreation fishermen.

You see, charters are on the water for one reason... commercial intent. They exchange a service for money. Now, I'm not saying that there is anything at all wrong with that. However, the industry as a whole should be held accountable for the total amount of fish they take. Enough grouping charter/head boats and *true* recreational fishermen into the same regulatory category for striped bass.

If you want to nitpick semantics, why was the captain that caught the bluefin tuna in their trawler nets the one under all the scrutiny? He wasn't the one tending the nets, the guys out on the deck were.

[Mr. Sandman]

[QUOTE=trapperpierre;901510....then we should abolish all marine scientists employed by the MA DMF....and let the general public create & remove fishery regulations....
.[/QUOTE]


Yes!!!
Best idea in your rant!

What GOOD has the marine scientists done? The recent codfish debacle comes to mind and all that so called science.

As for the Yoyo issue. While not scientific, it is hardly limited data, it is pretty factual....Sometimes common sense will be a better guide than exhaustive, expensive, time consuming and error prone science based extrapolations by state-hired Phd's who don't fish.

This was based on the commercial fleet who, off of Gay Head a few years ago, were pounding fish with this approach. Many fish were lost and ingested the lead and associated wire rigs internally. (we know this because many were recaptured with infected sores and wire/metal rigs poking thru their stomachs. Most were sold with the lead inside) When you see them doing it, and the amount of gear lost that you KNOW is now inside the fish...this becomes a no-brainer.
ENOUGH WITH THE BAD SCIENCE!!! You guys can't manage yourself out of a paper bag with that so called science you tout, Frankly, it is laughable. Try some common sense and save us all a lot of money as well as a few fish.

YoYo was an effective fishing method. But the REAL mortality is ALOT more than what is currently assumed. Further there is a risk of long term lead contamination to the flesh which is consumed by humans.
Is the state saying that fish that have lead in their digestive systems for long periods, placed there by fishermen, is a good thing for the public who consume them? Why is the DMF trying to poison the fish-buying public with lead? If they OK this method that is effectively what they are saying, that they like the idea of lead inside fish, knowing it will be consumed by the public. I can see potential legal nightmare for the state when someone gets lead poisoning.


I support this yo-yo ban.

Circle hooks are a positive step as well.

It will be tougher to catch a tog with a circle hook and a green-crab however.


The bottom line is fishermen especially NE fishermen resist change of any kind...good bad or otherwise. You have to jam it down their throat with them kicking and screaming or you can not do anything. Just do it...Man up!

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

The bottom line is fishermen especially NE fishermen resist change of any kind...good bad or otherwise. You have to jam it down their throat with them kicking and screaming or you can not do anything. Just do it...Man up!

Short memories too, the cod collapse has been mentioned every year for damn near 20 years now.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Places like the canal where the recs have a sizable impact will be policed by the anglers themselves.

You mean by pissing and moaning online?

[big jay]

[QUOTE=Sea Dangles;

There are pleanty of charter boat captains who set no catch limits on their charters and allow a few extras for the sports,especially the nighttime variety. This also has to cease for the bass to have a chance to flourish.[/QUOTE]

Plenty Chris?

That's a bunch of HorseSh*t.
Like anything, there may be one or 2 scumbags out there, but the vast majority aren't about to risk their businesses and reputations to let a customer cheat.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

You would be surprised at how well known some of these Captains are that are willing to take these risks. But a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch Jay.Certainly the majority are stewards of the resource so their future is insured.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

You would be surprised at how well known some of these Captains are that are willing to take these risks. But a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch Jay.Certainly the majority are stewards of the resource so their future is insured.

Next people will tell you none of the charter guys keep stellwagon bass.

Originally Posted by MAKAI

For accurate accountability, the charter/ headboat fleet should be a separate designation. See adjective one, could make the argument that they are more commercial fishing than the guys selling fish out of their personal boats.

There was a thread about this not too long ago. I'm sure you could find it searching commercial and charter. Very telling.