Mass Striper decline numbers from NOAA

[jimmy z]

There is one tournament that claims to have 3000 entries and a ten(10) fish limit. Don't know too much about that one up in MA. But that's not a catch and release thing I gather. If not, 30,000 bass is 30,000 bass.

[Got Stripers]

Thankfully I'm just as happy chasing black sea bass, tog or fluke; but I do miss those days where your rod was bent all day with fat schoolies. If it gets so bad its not worth towing the boat to the launch, it will be time to sell and golf full time.

[Ed B]

Something here doesn't make sense. The only link posted is to a secure website. Do the guys posting these graphs have any other links to the place where this is coming from?

These graphs certainly don't coincide with data put out by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission.

Ed B

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Ed B

Something here doesn't make sense. The only link posted is to a secure website. Do the guys posting these graphs have any other links to the place where this is coming from?

These graphs certainly don't coincide with data put out by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission.

Ed B

I assume they made the graphs with the NOAA data. Which ASMFC data are you talking about? The yoy index that dropped for years up until the most recent one?

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by Ed B

Something here doesn't make sense. The only link posted is to a secure website. Do the guys posting these graphs have any other links to the place where this is coming from?

These graphs certainly don't coincide with data put out by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission.

Ed B

Not sure what happened to the first link but try the link below and select "catch" query. You should be able to get the tables I posted for each state.

You really need to look at the ASMFC tables closely. The 2006 to2011 data shows about a 33% decrease in recreational kept but then it shows about a 75% decrease in the release numbers. If you add the C&R numbers together you see a decrease of about 70% decrease. This is on page 18 of the 2011 assessment. If you look at the table on page 19 you will see that the states at the North and South ends of the range have seen the biggest drops.

ASMFC says that stripers are not overfished because the stock numbers are above the SSB Threshold. Problem is in my opinion if we drop the stock to the Threshold number Maine, NH, Mass North Shore, VA, NC will not have a migratory stripe bass fishery.

http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1/recr...ies/index.html

[Ed B]

Originally Posted by MikeToole

Not sure what happened to the first link but try the link below and select "catch" query. You should be able to get the tables I posted for each state.

You really need to look at the ASMFC tables closely. The 2006 to2011 data shows about a 33% decrease in recreational kept but then it shows about a 75% decrease in the release numbers. If you add the C&R numbers together you see a decrease of about 70% decrease. This is on page 18 of the 2011 assessment. If you look at the table on page 19 you will see that the states at the North and South ends of the range have seen the biggest drops.

ASMFC says that stripers are not overfished because the stock numbers are above the SSB Threshold. Problem is in my opinion if we drop the stock to the Threshold number Maine, NH, Mass North Shore, VA, NC will not have a migratory stripe bass fishery.

Recreational Fisheries Statistics Queries

Thanks for the link Mike. I have been running cases looking at angler effort. Something of note is that I see a significant reduction in Angler Effort for striped bass. Just a few years ago it looks like Angler Effort was in the order of 50% higher than what it was in 2011. Based on that, I would certainly expect a significant reduction in striped bass caught and also caught and released. I can see why the data as you queried shows a big drop, as fewer people pursue fewer fish.

Ed B

[Alhbg]

Originally Posted by Ed B

Thanks for the link Mike. I have been running cases looking at angler effort. Something of note is that I see a significant reduction in Angler Effort for striped bass. Just a few years ago it looks like Angler Effort was in the order of 50% higher than what it was in 2011. Based on that, I would certainly expect a significant reduction in striped bass caught and also caught and released. I can see why the data as you queried shows a big drop, as fewer people pursue fewer fish.

Ed B

I pulled the data from their site and calculated "Stripers per Trip" to account for the decline in fishing effort. The results still show a decline underway but it doesn't look as dramatic. Another trend that came out of this is the increasing percentage of fish that are harvested. This is not surprising given the big decline in small fish over the past few years.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Alhbg

The results still show a decline underway but it doesn't look as dramatic.

Follow the curve. About 2 or 3 more seasons until we are back to 1984 levels. Not a pretty picture.

[numbskull]

Last year's good YOY will provide plenty of fish in two to three years. The issue will be quality. It will be a decade before those fish are worth catching. What is left out there now will be long gone under current rules. So unnecessary, so stupid, so predictable.

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by Ed B

Thanks for the link Mike. I have been running cases looking at angler effort. Something of note is that I see a significant reduction in Angler Effort for striped bass. Just a few years ago it looks like Angler Effort was in the order of 50% higher than what it was in 2011. Based on that, I would certainly expect a significant reduction in striped bass caught and also caught and released. I can see why the data as you queried shows a big drop, as fewer people pursue fewer fish.

Ed B

I guess you also have to look at why the effort numbers are so much lower. Last season on most nights I would only see a couple of people fishing, normally the same two guys. A few years ago it was normal to run into a dozen or more fisherman each night. During the day there was always some bait fisherman out but last year very few. The reason being is there just were to few fish around. Many of the people I knew who fish Maine, NH and Mass North shore have either stopped or greatly reduced their trips.

What is also happening is people like me are now making more trips to the canal and the cape. So as the fish range decreases you can expect to see an increase in the number of people fishing those areas.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by MikeToole

What is also happening is people like me are now making more trips to the canal and the cape. So as the fish range decreases you can expect to see an increase in the number of people fishing those areas.

For the first time in my life, I stopped fishing the Canal before Columbus Day, last fall. There were some fish to be caught, but it just wasn't worth the effort.

Even as late as 2009, I had 50-60 fish nights early in the fall run.

Guys I know who hit it hard every night between mid-September and the start of bird season had the worst fall of the last 25 years.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by jimmy z

There is one tournament that claims to have 3000 entries and a ten(10) fish limit. Don't know too much about that one up in MA. But that's not a catch and release thing I gather. If not, 30,000 bass is 30,000 bass.

I stopped entering it, but in all fairness, nowhere near 30,000 fish get entered. In the years that I did enter it, I weighed in exactly one fish. It was gill hooked and bleeding like a stuck pig anyway. It just happened to win me a weekly prize.

When fish in the low 30s are the Grand Leaders in the MV Derby (back in the 90s, when bass were first re-entered, you needed 50+ to even be on the board, and even in the 80s, guys took 40s and 50s from the beach and released them because they weren't Derby-eligible), you know something's wrong.

[jimmy z]

Originally Posted by Mike P

I stopped entering it, but in all fairness, nowhere near 30,000 fish get entered. In the years that I did enter it, I weighed in exactly one fish. It was gill hooked and bleeding like a stuck pig anyway. It just happened to win me a weekly prize.

When fish in the low 30s are the Grand Leaders in the MV Derby (back in the 90s, when bass were first re-entered, you needed 50+ to even be on the board, and even in the 80s, guys took 40s and 50s from the beach and released them because they weren't Derby-eligible), you know something's wrong.

I know that number seems extreme, but the site boasts of 3000 entries with a 10 fish total over the course of the tourny.
My point is Mike, with how things are with the bass, how can one site still want to promote such a tourny.
As many of us are trying to save what is left and hope things will be normal in a decade or so, there is still this type of mindset out there.
I know it's everyone's right or privilege to do what they feel is ok or do, just as long as rules and regs are followed. But does that really make it right?
There has to be a change. And the change has to come from the ones who fish for striped bass!
I know it goes deeper in some respects to the guys who eke out a living fishing, but that is something else again.