Lay Offs

[scottw]

[QUOTE=Piscator;969053]Looking back historically, Massachusetts isn’t so liberal.
Since 1900 Massachusetts has elected 33 different Governors.
19 were Republican and 14 Democrats.
6 out of the last 10 Governors in Massachusetts have been Republican.
As for Senators, prior to Kerry and Kennedy (and it is going back a while), it was a majority of Republican Senators representing Massachusetts than Democratic. QUOTE


so you're saying he's got a shot? "historically speaking"

Massachusetts

Senators

Sen. John Kerry [D]
Sen. Scott Brown [R].....eeeeeeerrrrr...Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D)

Representatives

1st District
Rep. John Olver [D]
2nd District
Rep. Richard Neal [D]
3rd District
Rep. James “Jim” McGovern [D]
4th District
Rep. Barney Frank [D]..... Some Kennedy (D)
5th District Rep.
Niki Tsongas [D]
6th District
Rep. John Tierney [D]
7th District
Rep. Edward “Ed” Markey [D]
8th District
Rep. Michael Capuano [D]
9th District
Rep. Stephen Lynch [D]
10th District
Rep. William Keating [D]

Map DataMap data ©2012 Google - Terms of UseMap DataMap

[spence]

Originally Posted by Fishpart

At least one of our customers have already come out in the press that they will not be openining any more facilities for the forseeable future as a result of the tax on med devices. Ultimately this will cause a loss of jobs as they improve effiency on the lines they make now and can make the same amount of product with less people. No expansion means flat labor force at best. I also forsee less med devices being needed as demand for procedures drops. (yes, in English that means as healtcare is RATIONED) This will push all the way though the supply chain in reduced demand for materials, tooling, shipping, energy, essentially no one is safe unless they are employed by government.

Improved worker productivity is a fact of life, if your business isn't looking to get more from existing investments they won't be alive for long.

With the disproportionate amount of health care that seniors consume the need for medical devices would logically rise in conjunction with retiring baby boomers. The amount of innovation driven demand suggests increased R&D to take advantage of this demographic shift which is supported by industry observations.

I would agree that increased regulatory pressure will stress the supply chain as OEM's have been quick to push liabilities downstream, but this also brings opportunity for innovation which has tangental benefits to other supporting industries. Many precision manufacturing companies are doing quite well I might add.

If the med device tax is implemented suddenly I could it see it causing lost some job loss for companies who aren't managing their cash flow well. Longer term though I think there will be tremendous opportunities for those positioned to efficiently capture share in expanding markets...especially internationally.

-spence

[Piscator]

[QUOTE=scottw;969059]

Originally Posted by Piscator

Looking back historically, Massachusetts isn’t so liberal.
Since 1900 Massachusetts has elected 33 different Governors.
19 were Republican and 14 Democrats.
6 out of the last 10 Governors in Massachusetts have been Republican.
As for Senators, prior to Kerry and Kennedy (and it is going back a while), it was a majority of Republican Senators representing Massachusetts than Democratic. QUOTE


so you're saying he's got a shot? "historically speaking"

Massachusetts

Senators

Sen. John Kerry [D]
Sen. Scott Brown [R].....eeeeeeerrrrr...Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D)

Representatives

1st District
Rep. John Olver [D]
2nd District
Rep. Richard Neal [D]
3rd District
Rep. James “Jim” McGovern [D]
4th District
Rep. Barney Frank [D]..... Some Kennedy (D)
5th District Rep.
Niki Tsongas [D]
6th District
Rep. John Tierney [D]
7th District
Rep. Edward “Ed” Markey [D]
8th District
Rep. Michael Capuano [D]
9th District
Rep. Stephen Lynch [D]
10th District
Rep. William Keating [D]

Map DataMap data ©2012 Google - Terms of UseMap DataMap

Yes, I'd say he has a shot. Massachusetts is a wierd place when it comes to Politics
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[striperman36]

kerry's would be up for re-election in 2014, I'm not sure anyone would want to serve as an interim senator twice

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Improved worker productivity is a fact of life, if your business isn't looking to get more from existing investments they won't be alive for long.

With the disproportionate amount of health care that seniors consume the need for medical devices would logically rise in conjunction with retiring baby boomers. The amount of innovation driven demand suggests increased R&D to take advantage of this demographic shift which is supported by industry observations.

I would agree that increased regulatory pressure will stress the supply chain as OEM's have been quick to push liabilities downstream, but this also brings opportunity for innovation which has tangental benefits to other supporting industries. Many precision manufacturing companies are doing quite well I might add.

If the med device tax is implemented suddenly I could it see it causing lost some job loss for companies who aren't managing their cash flow well. Longer term though I think there will be tremendous opportunities for those positioned to efficiently capture share in expanding markets...especially internationally.

-spence

Spence..have you ever actually owned or run a business?...because I read this from you which is little more than hypothetical musing, waxing poetic about how government intrusion and taxation will actually benefit a company and what might occur due to this or that to justify a tax that, from what I read, people that are actually running these businesses affected insist it will have a serious negative effect....as pointed out....sounds like the same crap that we heard about Solyndra and the like.....they were going to capture share in expanding markets too, need would logically rise and on and on...and the government was giving them a ton of dough and they weren't being burdened with a large excise tax....




"Even if the tax cannot be totally undone, it's hoped within the industry that some of its most onerous provisions could be changed. One goal, for example, is to exempt start-ups from the tax for a certain period of time.

That said, some of the staunchest opponents of the tax remain hopeful that it will be repealed, citing support from Democrats in the House and the Senate. Even liberal U.S. Senator-elect Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), mindful of medical device employment in Massachusetts, is opposed to the tax. Senior Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry has also expressed concern about the tax. Even if the Senate can muster enough votes to support a House-initiated repeal, it's doubtful that Congress could overcome a presidential veto.

Widespread cutbacks have already begun at some major medical device makers. Some are citing the new excise tax as the cause. Others are citing slowing demand coupled with growing pressures to reduce costs of medical devices. It will be interesting to see if jobs are reinstated if the device tax is fundamentally revised."

.............

this is an arbitrary tax that was dreamed up by the authors of Obamacare to try to help fund it because they felt the manufacturers were an easy target ...and you strain to explain that the companies being whacked by the tax will probably benefit .....unbelieveable

[scottw]

[QUOTE=Piscator;969067]

Originally Posted by scottw

Yes, I'd say he has a shot. Massachusetts is a wierd place when it comes to Politics
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

recent historical trends do not bode well

[Jackbass]

Originally Posted by Piscator

Looking back historically, Massachusetts isn’t so liberal.
Since 1900 Massachusetts has elected 33 different Governors.
19 were Republican and 14 Democrats.
6 out of the last 10 Governors in Massachusetts have been Republican.
As for Senators, prior to Kerry and Kennedy (and it is going back a while), it was a majority of Republican Senators representing Massachusetts than Democratic.

Interesting to see that more Republican Governors have held office in MA than Democratic (here is a list)

Winthrop M. Crane January 4, 1900 – January 8, 1903 Republican
John L. Bates January 8, 1903 – January 5, 1905 Republican
William Lewis Douglas January 5, 1905 – January 4, 1906 Democratic
Curtis Guild, Jr. January 4, 1906 – January 7, 1909 Republican
Ebenezer Draper January 7, 1909 – January 5, 1911 Republican
Eugene Foss January 5, 1911 – January 8, 1914 Democratic
David I. Walsh January 8, 1914 – January 6, 1916 Democratic
Samuel W. McCall January 6, 1916 – January 2, 1919 Republican
Calvin Coolidge January 2, 1919 – January 6, 1921 Republican
Channing H. Cox January 6, 1921 – January 8, 1925 Republican
Alvan T. Fuller January 8, 1925 – January 3, 1929 Republican
Frank G. Allen January 3, 1929 – January 8, 1931 Republican
Joseph B. Ely January 8, 1931 – January 3, 1935 Democratic
James Michael Curley January 3, 1935 – January 7, 1937 Democratic
Charles F. Hurley January 7, 1937 – January 5, 1939 Democratic
Leverett Saltonstall January 5, 1939 – January 3, 1945 Republican
Maurice J. Tobin January 3, 1945 – January 2, 1947 Democratic
Robert F. Bradford January 2, 1947 – January 6, 1949 Republican
Paul A. Dever January 6, 1949 – January 8, 1953 Democratic
Christian Herter January 8, 1953 – January 3, 1957 Republican
Foster Furcolo January 3, 1957 – January 5, 1961 Democratic
John A. Volpe January 5, 1961 – January 3, 1963 Republican
Endicott Peabody January 3, 1963 – January 7, 1965 Democratic
John A. Volpe January 7, 1965 – January 22, 1969 Republican
Francis W. Sargent January 22, 1969 – January 2, 1975 Republican
Michael Dukakis January 2, 1975 – January 4, 1979 Democratic
Edward J. King January 4, 1979 – January 6, 1983 Democratic
Michael Dukakis January 6, 1983 – January 3, 1991 Democratic
William Weld January 3, 1991 – July 29, 1997 Republican
Paul Cellucci July 29, 1997 – April 10, 2001 Republican
Jane Swift April 10, 2001 – January 2, 2003 Republican
Mitt Romney January 2, 2003 – January 4, 2007 Republican
Deval Patrick January 4, 2007 – Present Democratic

They put Tierney back in office Who has definitely had some sort of a role in an illegal gambling ring. I don't care who you are, your wife has an additional $240,000 hanging around you know about it.

Then there is the woman from Athol who got voted back into the house even though she accused her competitor of selling cocaine,fraudulently.

Not to mention Liawatha. Putting that woman in the Senate is purely moronic. She is a proven liar And definitely difficult to stomach.

Aside from that, How many Massachusetts speakers in a row now Have wound up in prison? Common thread They all have D'
S next to their name.

The best one nation wide by far However Is Jesse Jackson Junior Getting elected into office After it was proven he tried to buy Barack Obama's seat in the Senate from Rod Blagojevich
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jackbass

The best one nation wide by far However Is Jesse Jackson Junior Getting elected into office After it was proven he tried to buy Barack Obama's seat in the Senate from Rod Blagojevich
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

and wasn't he re-elected while in drug rehab?


here is how the republican party needs to moderate in order to re-establish itself given the climate and trends of the electorate in the next go around...

abortion.....free, government provided and paid for abortions for anyone desiring one...in addition....the government will pay a $10,000 bonus per abortion(the average cost of one year in a public school) simply calculating the enormous amount of money that Julia's Life will cost the government and taxpayers it makes more sense to reward the person aborting the non-person for making such a wise but probably difficult "choice"

gay marriage....there will be no gender designations for marriage nor any limits going forward, you may marry whomever you wish, however many of whatever you wish and claim whatever you wish as a spouse, that spouse(s) and any offspring created, adopted or otherwise will be entitled to all of the possibilities of the entitlement state...there will be no limits(see France)

edumacation....all education in America will be free, all colleges and universities will provide free education(have you seen the endowments???) to whoever wants education and enrollment will be determined by lottery...there will be no advantages to any individual requesting entry into any institution, all applicants, legal or illegal, will go into a hat and names will be drawn until the seats are filled...all student loans will be forgiven and none will be required going foreward

incomes....all payrolls will be sent directly to the federal government where it will be determined and redistributed evenly based on the individual and whatever you've decided constitutes your family, this will truly be "from each according to their ability to each according to their need"...noone will have an income advantage over another...the government will also place in a "lock box" the amounts calculated to get you through your retirement years which will begin for everyone regardless at age 55....maximum number of hours that any American may work during one 7 day period is 30....you will no longer have any worries over income tax, retirement saving and the like

euthanasia...at whatever point the government decides that you are using more than your share of allotted medical resources as you age you will be required to take a happy ending pill, your family will recieve a bonus caluclated from the tremendous amount of money saved by the government thanks to your early exit...this will be considered the highest form of partiotism.. if you refuse, you will be determined to be mentally incompetent and the government will appoint someone to make the decision for you this one will probably be popular until it's your turn

immigration anyone caught entering the country, legally or illegally will immediately be photographed, given a drivers license, EBT card, registered for every available government service and registerd to vote.....no need to bother with the whole becoming a citizen part anymore...it's passe'

marajuana and other fromerly illegal drugs....these will all be covered and provided for under Obamacare for free

[likwid]

Originally Posted by scottw

here is how the republican party needs to moderate in order to re-establish itself given the climate and trends of the electorate in the next go around...

So basically you want them to lie just like the last go around?
You sure like losing.

[Jackbass]

Originally Posted by likwid

So basically you want them to lie just like the last go around?
You sure like losing.

Wrong lying works great look at Obama for example we are all his mushrooms. He feeds us horse crap and keeps us in the dark and people eat it up.

How many 08 promises did he live up to? Maybe 1 passing healthcare reform. But that promise is moot because along with it comes taxes on those that make under 250k and he never put the debates on C Span. Two promise broken while fulfilling another.
Yep the conservatives are lying.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Raider Ronnie]

DIVORCE AGREEMENT


THIS IS SO INCREDIBLY WELL PUT AND I CAN HARDLY BELIEVE IT'S BY A YOUNG PERSON, A STUDENT!!! WHATEVER HE RUNS FOR, I'LL VOTE FOR HIM.


Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists, Marxists and Obama supporters, et al: We have stuck together since the late 1950's for the sake of the kids, but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce. I know we tolerated each other for many years for the sake of future generations, but sadly, this relationship has clearly run its course.



Our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right for us all, so let's just end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way.



Here is a our separation agreement:


--Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by landmass each taking a similar portion. That will be the difficult part, but I am sure our two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that, it should be relatively easy! Our respective representatives can effortlessly divide other assets since both sides have such distinct and disparate tastes.



--We don't like redistributive taxes so you can keep them.


--You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU.
--Since you hate guns and war, we'll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA and the military.


--We'll take the nasty, smelly oil industry and the coal mines, and you can go with wind, solar and biodiesel.


--You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore and Rosie O'Donnell. You are, however, responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move all three of them.



--We'll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart and Wall Street.


--You can have your beloved lifelong welfare dwellers, food stamps, homeless, homeboys, hippies, druggies and illegal aliens.


--We'll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEO's and rednecks.


--We'll keep Bill O?Reilly, and Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood .


--You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we'll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us.


--You can have the peaceniks and war protesters. When our allies or our way of life are under assault, we'll help provide them security.


--We'll keep our Judeo-Christian values.


--You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism, political correctness and Shirley McClain. You can also have the U.N. but we will no longer be paying the bill.


--We'll keep the SUV's, pickup trucks and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Volt and Leaf you can find.


--You can give everyone healthcare if you can find any practicing doctors.


--We'll continue to believe healthcare is a luxury and not a right.
--We'll keep "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" and "The National Anthem."


--I'm sure you'll be happy to substitute "Imagine", "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing", "Kum Ba Ya" or "We Are the World".


--We'll practice trickle-down economics and you can continue to give trickle up poverty your best shot.



--Since it often so offends you, we'll keep our history, our name and our flag.


Would you agree to this? If so, please pass it along to other like-minded liberal and conservative patriots and if you do not agree, just hit delete. In the spirit of friendly parting, I'll bet you might think about which one of us will need whose help in 15 years.



Sincerely,


John J. Wall


Law Student and an American


P.S. Also, please take Ted Turner, Sean Penn, Martin & Charlie Sheen, Barbara Streisand, & ( Hanoi ) Jane Fonda with you.



P.S.S. And you won't have to press 1 for English when you call our country.


Forward This Every Time You Get It ! Let's Keep This Going, Maybe Some Of It Will Start Sinking In!!

[scottw]

Originally Posted by likwid

So basically you want them to lie just like the last go around?
You sure like losing.

when you are competing in the arena of Bread and Circus...I think that is the point...noone seems to mind lies and false promises if they are made by talented liars and cult personalities....the next 2 and 4 years will be spent expanding and reinforcing the welfare state and entitlement mentality....republicans will always be portrayed as those who will take away the goodies if elected...it's a no win...as in Eurpoe we will end up with parties at election time arguing over who is better equipped to manage the collapsing welfare state, the only way to win at this point, is to simply promise more...it's not the parties, it's not the system...it's the people

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

DIVORCE AGREEMENT


THIS IS SO INCREDIBLY WELL PUT AND I CAN HARDLY BELIEVE IT'S BY A YOUNG PERSON, A STUDENT!!! WHATEVER HE RUNS FOR, I'LL VOTE FOR HIM.


Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists, Marxists and Obama supporters, et al: We have stuck together since the late 1950's for the sake of the kids, but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce. I know we tolerated each other for many years for the sake of future generations, but sadly, this relationship has clearly run its course.



Our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right for us all, so let's just end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way.



Here is a our separation agreement:


--Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by landmass each taking a similar portion. That will be the difficult part, but I am sure our two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that, it should be relatively easy! Our respective representatives can effortlessly divide other assets since both sides have such distinct and disparate tastes.



--We don't like redistributive taxes so you can keep them.


--You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU.
--Since you hate guns and war, we'll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA and the military.


--We'll take the nasty, smelly oil industry and the coal mines, and you can go with wind, solar and biodiesel.


--You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore and Rosie O'Donnell. You are, however, responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move all three of them.



--We'll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart and Wall Street.


--You can have your beloved lifelong welfare dwellers, food stamps, homeless, homeboys, hippies, druggies and illegal aliens.


--We'll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEO's and rednecks.


--We'll keep Bill O?Reilly, and Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood .


--You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we'll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us.


--You can have the peaceniks and war protesters. When our allies or our way of life are under assault, we'll help provide them security.


--We'll keep our Judeo-Christian values.


--You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism, political correctness and Shirley McClain. You can also have the U.N. but we will no longer be paying the bill.


--We'll keep the SUV's, pickup trucks and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Volt and Leaf you can find.


--You can give everyone healthcare if you can find any practicing doctors.


--We'll continue to believe healthcare is a luxury and not a right.
--We'll keep "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" and "The National Anthem."


--I'm sure you'll be happy to substitute "Imagine", "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing", "Kum Ba Ya" or "We Are the World".


--We'll practice trickle-down economics and you can continue to give trickle up poverty your best shot.



--Since it often so offends you, we'll keep our history, our name and our flag.


Would you agree to this? If so, please pass it along to other like-minded liberal and conservative patriots and if you do not agree, just hit delete. In the spirit of friendly parting, I'll bet you might think about which one of us will need whose help in 15 years.



Sincerely,


John J. Wall


Law Student and an American


P.S. Also, please take Ted Turner, Sean Penn, Martin & Charlie Sheen, Barbara Streisand, & ( Hanoi ) Jane Fonda with you.



P.S.S. And you won't have to press 1 for English when you call our country.


Forward This Every Time You Get It ! Let's Keep This Going, Maybe Some Of It Will Start Sinking In!!

This student is well beyond his years in wisdom and his Professors could
learn from him.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by scottw

when you are competing in the arena of Bread and Circus...I think that is the point...noone seems to mind lies and false promises if they are made by talented liars and cult personalities....the next 2 and 4 years will be spent expanding and reinforcing the welfare state and entitlement mentality....republicans will always be portrayed as those who will take away the goodies if elected...it's a no win...as in Eurpoe we will end up with parties at election time arguing over who is better equipped to manage the collapsing welfare state, the only way to win at this point, is to simply promise more...it's not the parties, it's not the system...it's the people

Exactly. It is that Spencist trajectory/vector thing in which we are trapped. I might go a little easier on the people, though. Most are, always have been, and will always be, followers. Most are beneficiaries of or prey to systems of government created by leaders or masterminds. And most are informed by the education and media created by those leaders and delivered through those systems. That is the reason why most systems eventually fail. Most rigidly manage top down in a world of never ending change. There will always be social and natural wars for which they have no micromanaged answer. And the more they micromanage, the more rigid, intractable, they become-- and the less they can successfully respond to evolutionary forces. Socialist systems are symbiotic relationships between top-down powerful, to all powerful, central managers and their dependent "people."

Market systems create a "spontaneous order" among "the people." And the markets and people agree to various limited regulations (government) to make the spontaneous system more orderly.

Most people in either type of system "follow" the order created by leaders. The difference lying in how governance and direction is dispersed. Either a top-down one-directional (collectivist) administration or a bottom-up multi-directional (individualistic) system of self-governance.

The Democrat Party has transformed a once dispersed bottom-up market driven system to a top-down central one which depends on the socialistic means to power and its mainainance that you describe. It exists by distributing "needs" and maintains that existence by promising more in the following elections. It has essentially co-opted the public and higher educational systems and most of the major media which all inform the people. In that it has not figured a way to create the wealth that it distributes, it still relies on a market to do so. But it must control the market to the extent that it distributes the created wealth. The more it distributes, the more the market shrinks. And the greater the amount of centrally distributed wealth that is required, either the more the market must shrink or the more the government must borrow or inflate. And the more it gets in debt, the more onerous is its requirement to distribute. It is as much a slave to the "people" as the people are to it. This "mega trend" process is irreversible, no do-over as Spence would say, if this top-down system of government is to survive.

It doesn't have to survive. And it won't. What eventually takes its place is a question we might ponder. Or not. It will eventually happen either way. But we might make the eventual change less destructive if we do think about it, rationally and with respect to past experience. My personal suggestion, no surprise, would be to reinstitute governance on the lines of The Constitution. It is a framework for a fluid system that is open to necessary and evolutionary change but still maintains the dispersed power to create that change and maintain optimal individual freedom and "unalienable rights."

It is telling that those who argue with this and with well thought out and lengthy posts such as yours, respond with quips and one-liners which usually are shallow or make little sense. Or intentionally try to ridicule or provoke rather than discuss.

[PaulS]

Raider Ronnie,

It must suck to hate your country so much that you'd want to break it in 2. I wonder how the red states will pay their bills w/o the blue states to subsidize them.

[RIJIMMY]

[QUOTE=PaulS;969237]Raider Ronnie,

It must suck to hate your country so much that you'd want to break it in 2. I wonder how the red states will pay their bills w/o the blue states to subsidize them.

QUOTE]

Paul, the red states own most of the oil, natural gas, and farmland. They also own 90% of the trade with south america and most of the industry in the US. They'd do just fine. perhaps blue states could add a tarrif on hollywood exports?

The subsidies you reference dont come from blue states, they come from all states and its not just blue paying into the pot. If we didnt have all these federal programs and taxes, maybe there wouldnt be a need for subsidies?

[Raider Ronnie]

Hey Paul
I've got family that have fought and died in every war this country has fought going back to ww2 and up to this current war we been fighting.
You call Obama's Chicago mafia style of running this country patriotic with soldiers votes not being counted , this cover up in Bengazi 1st throwing Hillary under the bus now this general sex scandal who just do happens to have damaging testimony soon coming !

Originally Posted by PaulS

Raider Ronnie,

It must suck to hate your country so much that you'd want to break it in 2. I wonder how the red states will pay their bills w/o the blue states to subsidize them.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[PaulS]

Red states get more back from the fed. then they put in, Blue states get back less. Isn't there a petition being circulated to allow Texas to cede from the US?

As I said, it must suck to hate your country so much that you would actually consider ceding. 65,000 Texans have already signed - (great Americans!!). Perry has even voiced similiar thoughts in the past.

[detbuch]

[QUOTE=RIJIMMY;969248]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Raider Ronnie,

It must suck to hate your country so much that you'd want to break it in 2. I wonder how the red states will pay their bills w/o the blue states to subsidize them.

QUOTE]

Paul, the red states own most of the oil, natural gas, and farmland. They also own 90% of the trade with south america and most of the industry in the US.

I guess Paul missed that part of the trade about who would get who. I think he also missed that the separation was not about hate but mutual disagreement--an amicable "divorce." Maybe he was just projecting his own emotion.

The subsidies you reference dont come from blue states, they come from all states and its not just blue paying into the pot. If we didnt have all these federal programs and taxes, maybe there wouldnt be a need for subsidies?

Good point. And subsidies not only create their own need, they are a method of controlling. They are not entirely about nice-nice.

[PaulS]

I didn't miss anything. Sounds like conjecture on your part.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Red states get more back from the fed. then they put in, Blue states get back less.

Apparently, red states being the greedy bastids they are have suckered the blue states into this arrangement. Gosh, those red-necks aren't as dumb as we thought. Play the beligerent, backward, child who fails so that the well meaning, productive, and generous step brothers and sisters take pity and "subsidize" him. You'd think it would be the blue states who would want to secede from this arrangement. But they so love the country that they would rather suffer the financial imposition, besides, they prefer that socialist trajectory--to each according to his need, from each according to his ability.

Isn't there a petition being circulated to allow Texas to cede from the US?

As I said, it must suck to hate your country so much that you would actually consider ceding. 65,000 Texans have already signed - (great Americans!!). Perry has even voiced similiar thoughts in the past.

Wouldn't that be a good riddance for the blue states? Get those Texas leaches off the welfare rolls? But the blues wouldn't let that happen. Probly send in the troops like the strong parents they are and hush-hush the spoiled little munchkins who don't really know what's good for them. Mommy and daddy and nanny know what's good, and how to take care of even the wayward children.

[Piscator]

I love this country but question it's leadership and the people who try to take out more than they put in............
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I didn't miss anything. Sounds like conjecture on your part.

Yes, it is conjecture on my part, I don't pretend to know what is precisely on your mind. That's why I said that I GUESS you missed the part about who would get what (which would reasonbly allow the red states to do without subsidies), and the part that went "Our two ideological sides of America cannot ever agree on what is right for us all, so let's just end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconciliable differences and go our own way."

I didn't see any "hate" there and "conjectured" that maybe you missed that part. Apparently, I was wrong. You missed nothing and came to the conclusion that it was about hate. I apologize for my misconception.

[RIJIMMY]

Paul, its simple. I dont have unconditional love for this country. If the things I love go away, then why bother?
You're red vs blue is so misinformed. its about income tax - fed revenue generated. not revenue generated in Blue vs red, Most blue states make $$ of work/labor done in red states. to the original email. imagine if we did split blue to red? Blue states would be out of energy and food in a week if red states didnt trade with you.

[PaulS]

Still sounds like hate to me, no matter how it was written. I love my country and would not want anyone leaving just b/c they have different politics. Apparently, ronnie and john Wall feel differently.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

?
You're red vs blue is so misinformed. its about income tax.

I know what it is - it is tax revenue vs. gov. expenditures.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Still sounds like hate to me, no matter how it was written. I love my country and would not want anyone leaving just b/c they have different politics. Apparently, ronnie and john Wall feel differently.

so lets look at this.

PaulS starts his own company. He is sucessful has annual revenues of 1-2M, he employs 10 people. has 2 wonderful kids, buys a big house, buys a lake house, buys a few boats. he works hard and rewards himself. He pays his share of taxes his whole life.
PaulS at 70 yrs old passes away, shortly after his beautiful wife also passes.
His children are 35 and 40 yrs old, they are on their own, own careers, own families. They inherit their parents estate valued at 5 million.
In comes the US government - 55% or 2,750,000 is ours - you have 9 months to pay us. Knock, knock - its the state - you owe us 10% estate tax - you have 9 months to pay.
Assets are sold, the lake house, the boats, the cars, etc. legal fees to dispose of the estate stack up. Pauls childnre watch their parents lives be sold off in chunks, everythign they dreamed sold to pay Uncle Sam. - In the end the grand life savings of PaulS equates to about 1.5M to his family, his grandkids, his relatives, charities. The government seized all his other assets.
What a great country!
Thats not politics Paul, this is reality. That is robbery. I wont stand for it.

[PaulS]

Nice story but trusts and life insur. would have taken care of much of the tax issue. Highlights the issue of estate planning (of which I'm certainly not an expert).

However, while you say you won't stand for it, your not leaving the country or I can't recall and doubt you advocating ceding from it. You might complain and try to do something about it - which is your right and prob. your responsibility in a democracy.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Nice story but trusts and life insur. would have taken care of much of the tax issue. Highlights the issue of estate planning (of which I'm certainly not an expert).

However, while you say you won't stand for it, your not leaving the country or I can't recall and doubt you advocating ceding from it. You might complain and try to do something about it - which is your right and prob. your responsibility in a democracy.

BullShat - I know this stuff - estate planning wont protect against that. Dont you think the government would take care of that?

My responsibility Paul? Im outnumbered! I CANT change that! thats what this thread is all about!
Did you notice you didnt even argue whether its right or wrong? You dont care if the governent ROBS people of their life.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

BullShat - I know this stuff - estate planning wont protect against that. Dont you think the government would take care of that?

My responsibility Paul? Im outnumbered! I CANT change that! thats what this thread is all about!
Did you notice you didnt even argue whether its right or wrong? You dont care if the governent ROBS people of their life.

Estate planning could have certainly taken care of much of the burden. That is what life insur. is for.

I don't think it is robbery - you do. We live in a democracy. If the majority don't think it is robbery, it will stay the way.