I hope this happens soon

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by JLH

If you are concerned about the future of the fishery 3 28” fish have a lot more value than one 40” fish. The smaller fish will continue to grow and will spawn for many more years than a fish that is in the middle to end of its lifespan. The number of eggs the 3 smaller fish will contribute to the fishery over time is far greater than the one large fish. In my opinion the guys that are catching and releasing 30, 40 , 50+ schoolies are night are doing far more damage to the fishery than the guys that are out there hunting for big fish and keeping a handful of them a season.

Do some studying on fisheries biology andand population dynamicsdynamics and see what you find. Let me know if you find data that supports your statement about smaller fish. I have never seen it. I have read a ton over the years.
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[JLH]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Do some studying on fisheries biology andand population dynamicsdynamics and see what you find. Let me know if you find data that supports your statement about smaller fish. I have never seen it. I have read a ton over the years.
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I have done a lot of reading on the subject. I'm not trying to argue that smaller fish produce more eggs than larger fish in any given year. If you look at their potential for producing eggs in coming years though the number of eggs the three smalle fish will/could produce far exceeds the potential for the one larger fish. If you want to ensure a healthy population going forward would you rather have a one 40" thats going to produce eggs for the next 5 years of 3 28" fish that are going to produce eggs in greater numbers each year as they grow in size for the next 15 years?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by JLH

I have done a lot of reading on the subject. I'm not trying to argue that smaller fish produce more eggs than larger fish in any given year. If you look at their potential for producing eggs in coming years though the number of eggs the three smalle fish will/could produce far exceeds the potential for the one larger fish. If you want to ensure a healthy population going forward would you rather have a one 40" thats going to produce eggs for the next 5 years of 3 28" fish that are going to produce eggs in greater numbers each year as they grow in size for the next 15 years?

If you could point me to any of those studies, I would appreciate. I would like to at least see a discussion of the math. The potential of the small fish you speak of is irrelevant once those fish can be harvested at 28 or 36". The drums lot that targets the 18-27" allows for maximum recruitment and increases growth rates within the slot due to lower competition,which results in more and bigger fish. It may not be intuitive, but it is in practice, supported by the science, and it works.

[JLH]

Originally Posted by zimmy

If you could point me to any of those studies, I would appreciate. I would like to at least see a discussion of the math. The potential of the small fish you speak of is irrelevant once those fish can be harvested at 28 or 36". The drums lot that targets the 18-27" allows for maximum recruitment and increases growth rates within the slot due to lower competition,which results in more and bigger fish. It may not be intuitive, but it is in practice, supported by the science, and it works.

Originally Posted by zimmy

If you could point me to any of those studies, I would appreciate. I would like to at least see a discussion of the math. The potential of the small fish you speak of is irrelevant once those fish can be harvested at 28 or 36". The drums lot that targets the 18-27" allows for maximum recruitment and increases growth rates within the slot due to lower competition,which results in more and bigger fish. It may not be intuitive, but it is in practice, supported by the science, and it works.

You originally stated that killing one 40" fish was the same as killing three 28" fish. Starting from now and going forward assuming all fish reach the same age (say 20 years) the eggs produced by the three fish will far exceed the eggs produced by the one. The smaller fish are going to grow and produce more eggs and the larger fish going to die off first.

A slot limit may be the answer, or maybe not. My only point was that mathematically you are likely get a greater return over time with the three smaller fish.




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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by JLH

You originally stated that killing one 40" fish was the same as killing three 28" fish. Starting from now and going forward assuming all fish reach the same age (say 20 years) the eggs produced by the three fish will far exceed the eggs produced by the one. The smaller fish are going to grow and produce more eggs and the larger fish going to die off first.

A slot limit may be the answer, or maybe not. My only point was that mathematically you are likely get a greater return over time with the three smaller fish.

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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Only if you are talking about killing three small fish for every large fish. You are assuming the three fish make it to age 20. They won't so the argument is invalid. The math doesnt work the way you propose it. I would like to move on, but I think it is important for people to understand the science of it so if asmfc gets their act together and moves on it, the community understands the basics.
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[JLH]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Only if you are talking about killing three small fish for every large fish.
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Didnt you made the post saying that killing one 40" fish was the same as killing 3 28" fish? I was trying to say that I disagreed with that statement and that I think mathemaically you are better off killing the one large and keeping the 3 smaller breeding size fish alive.

Agreed time to move on.
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[zimmy]

Originally Posted by JLH

Didnt you made the post saying that killing one 40" fish was the same as killing 3 28" fish? I was trying to say that I disagreed with that statement and that I think mathemaically you are better off killing the one large and keeping the 3 smaller breeding size fish alive.

Agreed time to move on.
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Yes, that is what I was saying. In other words, you would have to kill at least three smaller fish to equal the loss of one large breeder. Add in the fact that maybe half of small fish are male, the equivalency is more like 5 or 6 small fish harvested has the same impact as one breeder. Plus the small fish grow faster whn there is less competition in the school.

The math is based on fecundity and recruitment. I am not making statements about what I think, I am reporting the scientific properties of population dynamics based on what I was taught and what I have read in scientific literature. If it has changed, I really would like to read those studies. There are hundreds of studies and I haven't read them all, that is for sure.