IG Report

[Jim in CT]

Here is a photo from 2014. Is this Trump's fault? The Associated Press published this photo at the time, and no one cared. And the guy who was POTUS at the time, was probably polishing his Nobel Peace Prize when this photo was taken.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Here is a photo from 2014. Is this Trump's fault? The Associated Press published this photo at the time, and no one cared. And the guy who was POTUS at the time, was probably polishing his Nobel Peace Prize when this photo was taken.

Jim,
That is a picture of a place they put unaccompanied minors upon arrival. Not the same thing.
Just another but............ to justify the current actions.
Of course it is the american way, lock them up, that will show them.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Jim,
That is a picture of a place they put unaccompanied minors upon arrival. Not the same thing.
Just another but............ to justify the current actions.
Of course it is the american way, lock them up, that will show them.

So are you proposing that when adults who choose to break the law are being processed through the criminal justice system, that they be allowed to bring their children along? So we build daycares within our court buildings, with surrogate breastfeeders standing next to bailiffs? Build daycares within maximum security prisons, to avoid separating kids from their parents?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

So are you proposing that when adults who choose to break the law are being processed through the criminal justice system, that they be allowed to bring their children along? Yes So we build daycares within our court buildings, with surrogate breastfeeders standing next to bailiffs? Why would they need surrogate breastfeeders? Build daycares within maximum security prisons, to avoid separating kids from their parents?

I think we need far fewer prisons and why is it always the worst offenders that you cite to advance your ideas?
In this case we are talking about people who have committed a misdemeanor, not a felony. The justification is always the worst possible outcome, which you use to justify the most draconian solution.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I think we need far fewer prisons and why is it always the worst offenders that you cite to advance your ideas?
In this case we are talking about people who have committed a misdemeanor, not a felony. The justification is always the worst possible outcome, which you use to justify the most draconian solution.

Should these people be rewarded with citizenship as the punishment for something trifling as a misdemeanor? Should they get what they committed the misdemeanor for? Should a kid who steals a candy bar be punished or made to learn a lesson by letting him keep the candy and even giving him some more?

And, as Sea Dangles said, the big list of countries with lower incarceration rates than the US do not have the problem of millions trying to get into their country, legally or illegally.

I have a hard time understanding your logic.

[Pete F.]

Jim, here is the rate of incarceration per 100K population for the world. It seems other people have different solutions to issues than us.
Country (or dependent territory,
subnational area, etc.) Incarceration
rate
(Prisoners per
100,000
population) Notes

United States of America 655 Notes
El Salvador 610
Turkmenistan 583
Virgin Islands (USA) 542
Maldives 514
Cuba 510
Thailand 497
Northern Mariana Islands (USA) 482
Virgin Islands (United Kingdom) 470
Bahamas 438
Seychelles 437
Grenada 435
Rwanda 434
Russian Federation 411
Guam (USA) 404
St. Kitts and Nevis 393
Panama 390
St. Vincent and the Grenadines 378
Costa Rica 374
Antigua and Barbuda 373
Belarus 364
Cayman Islands (United Kingdom) 359
Belize 356
Sint Maarten (Netherlands) 347
Palau 345
American Samoa (USA) 337
Brazil 328
Uruguay 321
Bermuda (United Kingdom) 319
Puerto Rico (USA) 313
Anguilla (United Kingdom) 307
Barbados 300
Cape Verde (Cabo Verde) 298
Namibia 295
Dominica 289
Turkey 287
Iran 284
Swaziland 282
French Guiana/Guyane (France) 281
South Africa 280
St. Lucia 279
Trinidad and Tobago 270
Peru 267
Mongolia 262
Guyana 259
Taiwan 259
Georgia 254
Dominican Republic 244
Nicaragua 238
Curaçao (Netherlands) 236
Israel 236
Azerbaijan 235
Lithuania 235
Bahrain 234
Morocco 232
Cook Islands (New Zealand) 229
Colombia 227
Chile 225
Greenland (Denmark) 225
Ecuador 222
New Zealand 220
Latvia 218
Martinique (France) 217
Honduras 216
Moldova (Republic of) 215
Czech Republic 209
Botswana 208
Tunisia 206
Samoa 204
Estonia 202
Singapore 201
Paraguay 199
New Caledonia (France) 198
Poland 198
Jordan 197
Macau (China) 197
Saudi Arabia 197
Mauritius 195
Kazakhstan 194
Albania 193
Guadeloupe (France) 192
Gabon 191
Slovakia 190
Argentina 186
Hungary 184
Suriname 183
Cambodia 176
French Polynesia (France) 176
Montenegro 174
Venezuela 173
Philippines 172
Kyrgyzstan 171
Australia 167
Malaysia 167
Tonga 166
Aruba (Netherlands) 165
Gibraltar (United Kingdom) 165
Mexico 165
Fiji 158
Ukraine 158
Kuwait 157
Bolivia 156
Macedonia (former Yugoslav Republic of) 156
Serbia 152
Uzbekistan 150
Algeria 146
Zambia 146
Bhutan 145
Myanmar (formerly Burma) 145
United Kingdom: England & Wales 141 Notes
Nauru 140
Guernsey (United Kingdom) 138
Jamaica 138
United Kingdom: Scotland 137 Notes
Guatemala 136
Brunei Darussalam 134
Jersey (United Kingdom) 133
Malta 133
Armenia 131
Portugal 129
Uganda 129
Ethiopia 127
Micronesia, Federated States of 127
Spain 127
Iraq 126
Lebanon 126
Bulgaria 125
Vietnam 122
Cameroon 121
Tajikistan 121
Zimbabwe 120
Laos 119
Mayotte (France) 119
China 118 Notes
Egypt 116
Romania 116
Luxembourg 115
Reunion (France) 115
Canada 114
Kiribati 113
Hong Kong (China) 111
Kenya 111
Tuvalu 110
Republic of (South) Korea 109
Isle of Man (United Kingdom) 108
Kosovo/Kosova 106
United Arab Emirates 104
France 102
Libya 99
Austria 98
Haiti 96
Italy 96
Indonesia 94
Sri Lanka 94
Angola 93
Greece 93
Lesotho 92
Belgium 91
Afghanistan 88
Madagascar 88
Monaco 85
Sao Tome e Principe 85
Burundi 84
Cyprus (Republic of) 83
Ireland, Republic of 82
Switzerland 82
Malawi 79
United Kingdom: Northern Ireland 79 Notes
Croatia 78
Germany 78
Senegal 76
Norway 74
Bosnia and Herzegovina: Federation 73
Solomon Islands 73
Vanuatu 71
Andorra 69
Benin 68
Bosnia and Herzegovina: Republika Srpska 66
Cote d'Ivoire 66
Djibouti 66
Marshall Islands 66
Mozambique 65
Nepal 65
Sierra Leone 64
Slovenia 64
Equatorial Guinea 63
Papua New Guinea 63
Togo 62
Syria 60
Chad 59
Denmark 59
Netherlands 59
Gambia 58
Tanzania 58
Finland 57
Sweden 57
Niger 53
Qatar 53
Yemen 53
South Sudan 52
Timor-Leste (formerly East Timor) 51
Ghana 50
Bangladesh 47
Mauritania 46
Sudan 46
Japan 45
Liberia 44
Pakistan 43
Burkina Faso 41
Iceland 38
Nigeria 36
Oman 36
India 33
Mali 33
Democratic Republic of Congo 29
Congo (Republic of) 27
Liechtenstein 27
Guinea (Republic of) 25
Comoros 23
Central African Republic 16
Faeroe Islands (Denmark) 12
Guinea Bissau 10

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Jim, here is the rate of incarceration per 100K population for the world. It seems other people have different solutions to issues than us.
10

yes, and those solutions include not having an open border with Mexico, having populations that are 99% white, and in the case of some of the countries you mentioned like Iran, they execute drug dealers, which I'd imagine, cuts down on crime. If you want to have THAT conversation, let's have it. But I don't think you do.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

yes, and those solutions include not having an open border with Mexico, having populations that are 99% white, and in the case of some of the countries you mentioned like Iran, they execute drug dealers, which I'd imagine, cuts down on crime. If you want to have THAT conversation, let's have it. But I don't think you do.

We do not have an open border. We did, except for Asians, until a little over a hundred years ago.
Very few countries have a 99% white population, ALL countries have a lower rate of incarceration than the USA.
What do you think people learn in prison? Do they learn useful skills that help them succeed in society? Do they learn how to be more successful at life from other criminals?
Why do you think white people do not commit crimes? Is our crime rate because we do not have a lily white society?
Don't forget Trump was very impressed by Duterte's war on drugs, that killed thousands of people, would you go along with that if he attempted that here?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

We do not have an open border. We did, except for Asians, until a little over a hundred years ago.
Very few countries have a 99% white population, ALL countries have a lower rate of incarceration than the USA.
What do you think people learn in prison? Do they learn useful skills that help them succeed in society? Do they learn how to be more successful at life from other criminals?
Why do you think white people do not commit crimes? Is our crime rate because we do not have a lily white society?
Don't forget Trump was very impressed by Duterte's war on drugs, that killed thousands of people, would you go along with that if he attempted that here?

You like to ask a lot of questions. Why don't you give some answers.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

We do not have an open border. We did, except for Asians, until a little over a hundred years ago.
Very few countries have a 99% white population, ALL countries have a lower rate of incarceration than the USA.
What do you think people learn in prison? Do they learn useful skills that help them succeed in society? Do they learn how to be more successful at life from other criminals?
Why do you think white people do not commit crimes? Is our crime rate because we do not have a lily white society?
Don't forget Trump was very impressed by Duterte's war on drugs, that killed thousands of people, would you go along with that if he attempted that here?

"We do not have an open border"

we have, what, ten million undocumented people living here? A few years ago, a kid running for Congress, went to Mexico, and he crossed illegally back into the US, riding on an elephant, with a mariachi band walking with him, and he made it across (so the story goes). Effectively, it's open.

"What do you think people learn in prison? "

Nothing good. But they can't hurt civilians while in there, and that's at least a big part of why they are there.

"Do they learn useful skills that help them succeed in society?"

Probably not. If you want to spend some of my money to improve the programs to teach them marketable skills, I'm fine with that, if the programs work. I don't like spending money just to say you spent it.

"Why do you think white people do not commit crimes?"

For the same reason that Asian immigrants don't commit a lot of crimes. It has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with the culture that people embrace. Whites and Asians tend to embrace traditional family values and the value of education. Blacks and Hispanics (with encouragement from liberalism, in my opinion) tend to embrace a culture that encourages different, less productive, decision-making.

"Don't forget Trump was very impressed by Duterte's war on drugs, that killed thousands of people, would you go along with that if he attempted that here"

No, I'm opposed to the death penalty, but I'm in favor of brutal prison sentences for drug dealers.

[scottw]

are Spence, Pete and Wayne off their meds or something?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

we have, what, ten million undocumented people living here? A few years ago, a kid running for Congress, went to Mexico, and he crossed illegally back into the US, riding on an elephant, with a mariachi band walking with him, and he made it across (so the story goes). Effectively, it's open.

The majority of undocumented people in the US came legally and overstayed their visa. Illegal border crossings are at a 46 year low.

For the same reason that Asian immigrants don't commit a lot of crimes. It has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with the culture that people embrace. Whites and Asians tend to embrace traditional family values and the value of education. Blacks and Hispanics (with encouragement from liberalism, in my opinion) tend to embrace a culture that encourages different, less productive, decision-making.

And there you have it. Hooboy.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"We do not have an open border"

we have, what, ten million undocumented people living here? A few years ago, a kid running for Congress, went to Mexico, and he crossed illegally back into the US, riding on an elephant, with a mariachi band walking with him, and he made it across (so the story goes). Effectively, it's open.

"What do you think people learn in prison? "

Nothing good. But they can't hurt civilians while in there, and that's at least a big part of why they are there.

"Do they learn useful skills that help them succeed in society?"

Probably not. If you want to spend some of my money to improve the programs to teach them marketable skills, I'm fine with that, if the programs work. I don't like spending money just to say you spent it.

"Why do you think white people do not commit crimes?"

For the same reason that Asian immigrants don't commit a lot of crimes. It has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with the culture that people embrace. Whites and Asians tend to embrace traditional family values and the value of education. Blacks and Hispanics (with encouragement from liberalism, in my opinion) tend to embrace a culture that encourages different, less productive, decision-making.

"Don't forget Trump was very impressed by Duterte's war on drugs, that killed thousands of people, would you go along with that if he attempted that here"

No, I'm opposed to the death penalty, but I'm in favor of brutal prison sentences for drug dealers.

Jim, there is an open border between each of the united states. I cannot just drive to Canada or Mexico without going thru Customs, nor can I fly to any country.
Anecdotal evidence is the populists response to issues. Rush and Bernie have been saving the world from all sorts of evils thru the media for years by citing anecdotal evidence.
People do enter this country illegally by crossing the border and also by overstaying their visas, like your friend. If you overstay your visa you have to wait three years to reapply.
We spend 50-60K a year per prison inmate to educate our prison inmates in how to be a better criminal.
We have the highest rate of recidivism in the world and you think that is the way to go?
Is it possible that the portion of the population that has the highest rate of incarceration continues to have higher and higher rates because of incarceration's effect on their culture?
You are incorrect about hispanics and rate of incarceration, it is much lower than blacks. But that would not fit into the evil Mexican image.
We have spent almost the last 50 years in a war on drugs and have made no headway.
We tried brutal sentences.
We have also let the Big Pharma create a whole new series of addicts, who then support the illegal sources.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Whites and Asians tend to embrace traditional family values and the value of education. Blacks and Hispanics (with encouragement from liberalism, in my opinion) tend to embrace a culture that encourages different, less productive, decision-making.

Black Kids Aren’t “Illegitimate,” Your Data Comprehension is: Racist Lies About Out-of-Wedlock Birthrates
https://medium.com/@timjwise/black-k...k-836fa501b869

[Sea Dangles]

Those places certainly have more to offer than the US, I wonder why Mexicans aren't going there.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Those places certainly have more to offer than the US, I wonder why Mexicans aren't going there.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Mexicans come here because we are right next door and fewer and fewer each year as the Mexican economy gets better. They don't come here to collect welfare or commit crimes, they come to work and earn money for their families.

We spend 50-60K per prisoner each year, or around $400 for every person in the USA.
We also have the highest rate of recidivism in the world.
So obviously our money is well spent if the object is to insure the future of our prison system.
Follow the money, look at privatization of the prison system.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Jim, here is the rate of incarceration per 100K population for the world. It seems other people have different solutions to issues than us.
10

Maybe we should bring back Public stonings and cutting chit off....That might help bring the numbers down.

Didn't see North Korea on the list either, where do you think they fall on the scale?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Maybe we should bring back Public stonings and cutting chit off....That might help bring the numbers down.

Didn't see North Korea on the list either, where do you think they fall on the scale?

Since more than 75% go back to prison, that would be one solution.
I don't think a radical Islamic one is correct for us though you may disagree.
I would have no idea where North Korea falls, is that a nation you wish to be compared to?
My guess is they are lower since the only black person there in years has been Dennis Rodman and Jim says it's black culture that drives criminal activity.
He may have impregnated many of them lately, you know how those black guys are, give it a few years and they will catch up.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Jim says it's black culture that drives criminal activity.
.

Blacks who embrace traditional family values, do just fine.

In the 1950s, the nation was at the height of racial segregation, and black fatherlessness was less than half of what it is today. Therefore, it's not racism driving this, if it was, fatherlessness would have been higher when racism was more predominant.

Robbing poor people of their ability to rise out of poverty, and making them addicted to welfare instead, is also a stupid and short-sighted policy. And it's a cornerstone of liberalism.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Robbing poor people of their ability to rise out of poverty, and making them addicted to welfare instead, is also a stupid and short-sighted policy. And it's a cornerstone of liberalism.

This is what i refer to with Lifeguards or Swimming lessons.
If you had two groups of children and two pools
Group A was given a lifeguard and let loose at the pool.
Group B was given a lifeguard and swimming lessons, then let loose at the pool.
What do you think the result would be at the end of the summer?
I think welfare should be like lifeguards and swimming lessons, both necessary but swimming lessons make lifeguards far less important to swimming. The problem is you can't stop the lessons when they get in water too deep just because.
Some will provide lifeguards because you can't just let them die.
Some will provide lifeguards and swimming lessons because they want them to succeed, but another will cut the swimming lessons because they can just stay out of the pool.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I would have no idea where North Korea falls, is that a nation you wish to be compared to?

Well, the list was (supposed to be) the world, NK is part of it.

I mean you compared us to China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia with that list. Is that who you wish to compare us to? Do you think our criminals would get a fairer shake in those countries than here?

The US averages 35 executions a year, China over a 1000....maybe therein lies the answer. I mean they average a 1/4 less incarcerations than the US, but over 30 times as many executions.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Well, the list was (supposed to be) the world, NK is part of it.

I mean you compared us to China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia with that list. Is that who you wish to compare us to? Do you think our criminals would get a fairer shake in those countries than here?

The US averages 35 executions a year, China over a 1000....maybe therein lies the answer. I mean they average a 1/4 less incarcerations than the US, but over 30 times as many executions.

It is actually really simple.
I don't actually what other countries do, I care what we do.
We have a higher rate of incarceration and recidivism than anyone else in the world.
In the last decade it has had a downward trend but for 40 years before that consistently went up.
Before the 70s it was a consistent percentage pretty common to the rest of the developed world.
If you think that it is worth $400 from every citizen of the US to incarcerate people and are willing to pay more each year, that is your choice. Remember you are paying that to provide the best training for criminals and paying more for it than a college education. I think it could be improved on and other countries have some alternatives that could be considered.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

It is actually really simple.
I don't actually what other countries do, I care what we do.
We have a higher rate of incarceration and recidivism than anyone else in the world.
In the last decade it has had a downward trend but for 40 years before that consistently went up.
Before the 70s it was a consistent percentage pretty common to the rest of the developed world.
If you think that it is worth $400 from every citizen of the US to incarcerate people and are willing to pay more each year, that is your choice. Remember you are paying that to provide the best training for criminals and paying more for it than a college education. I think it could be improved on and other countries have some alternatives that could be considered.

I guess the big question would be "Do they deserve to be there?" If they are breaking laws and are being sentenced to prison because of their bad choices, then there isn't really anything that's "Broken".

[Sea Dangles]

Haha, Spence is having a tough time quite often as of late. You guys should stop putting him in an awkward position. He should not have to explain his thought process.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Haha, Spence is having a tough time quite often as of late. You guys should stop putting him in an awkward position. He should not have to explain his thought process.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

He is really coming un-glued.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Those were questions for Jim, why would I answer for him?
He seems to be quite capable, though I might disagree with his opinions.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

If I was interested in his answer I would have asked him. I asked you why don't you give some answers in response to the list of questions you posed to Jim.

I also asked you what you would do to stop illegals from their misdemeanor activity of illegal border crossing? Would lowering our incarceration rate do the trick? Would it be fixed by answering the questions you posed to Jim such as: "What do you think people learn in prison? Do they learn useful skills that help them succeed in society? Do they learn how to be more successful at life from other criminals? Why do you think white people do not commit crimes? Is our crime rate because we do not have a lily white society? Don't forget Trump was very impressed by Duterte's war on drugs, that killed thousands of people, would you go along with that if he attempted that here?"

Would you simply do nothing? Would you do what past administrations did, which did not stop the misdemeaning. Would you punish the misdemeanors by giving them "a path to citizenship" or just letting them stay on some other basis? Would that stop the misdemeanor activity?

What the administration is doing seems appropriate to me. What would you do?

[detbuch]

Pet F., I watched your The Gods Must Be Crazy movie. Twas interesting. Maybe you could watch this video a say a few words about it:

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Pet F., I watched your The Gods Must Be Crazy movie. Twas interesting. Maybe you could watch this video a say a few words about it:

His mother must have abused him.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

His mother must have abused him.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Who are you referring to and why do you say that?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Who are you referring to and why do you say that?

Stephan Molyneux
Are you a disciple?
Do you believe that most Mexicans abuse their children and are basically retarded?
He reminds me of an #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& I worked with once. He told us about how he was a Promisekeeper and only ate healthy food.
I was kind of impressed till I happened to stop at a convenience store where he was at the register with a couple of porn mags and a handful of candy bars.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device