Obama's Healthcare

[Fly Rod]

The President and the Democratic leaders in Congress championed this bill and they said it was going to lower the cost of healthcare,” not according to a young Christian College student whose health insurance is going to double from about 600 a year to over 1300 dollars when he returns to college in the fall. He is begining to learn what "Hope and Change is." I am sure other colleges will be dropping their health plan and opting for Obama Care.

This is only the beginning, those of us that have health care thru our employer will be dropped, employer will pay the fine for dropping us which is a small price compared to what they will be saving in the long run.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

This is only the beginning, those of us that have health care thru our employer will be dropped, employer will pay the fine for dropping us which is a small price compared to what they will be saving in the long run.

Before I left my last company, this is exactly what I was suggesting to my business partner. At the time, the company was under the threshold number of employees for ObamaCare but any expansion and it would make far more sense to not provide health care and pay the penalty (read as: tax).

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Before I left my last company, this is exactly what I was suggesting to my business partner. At the time, the company was under the threshold number of employees for ObamaCare but any expansion and it would make far more sense to not provide health care and pay the penalty (read as: tax).

I'd really like for Spence or Zimmy to respond to your post, and tell me why I should believe Obama's claim that Obamacare will lower costs.

No one, not even supreme beings like Obama, can add folks to the rolls and expand coverage, for less money. Not unless we all go to Guatemala for medical care.

Obama had a Democrat-controlled legislature for two full years. And his single prominent legislative achievement is (1) not going to reduce costs as claimed, and (2) about to be deemed illegal by the Supreme Court.

Other than the fact that Obamacare is (1) not working as advertised, and (2) illegal, it's great, though.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Obama had a Democrat-controlled legislature for two full years. And his single prominent legislative achievement is (1) not going to reduce costs as claimed, and (2) about to be deemed illegal by the Supreme Court.

Yup, two years while he had the majority wasted, when he could and should of been working on jobs and the economy. Too little too late.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I'd really like for Spence or Zimmy to respond to your post, and tell me why I should believe Obama's claim that Obamacare will lower costs.

No one, not even supreme beings like Obama, can add folks to the rolls and expand coverage, for less money. Not unless we all go to Guatemala for medical care.

Obama had a Democrat-controlled legislature for two full years. And his single prominent legislative achievement is (1) not going to reduce costs as claimed, and (2) about to be deemed illegal by the Supreme Court.

Other than the fact that Obamacare is (1) not working as advertised, and (2) illegal, it's great, though.

How about this??? (emphasis mine)

Maine deregulates the insurance market. Premiums fall.

When the 2010 electoral wave carried in Republican Governor Paul LePage and a GOP legislature, and they took modest steps to deregulate the insurance market. Insurers are now allowed to sell policies for premiums that range from 3 to 1 on the basis of age, rather than the prior 1.5 to 1, and to offer incentives or discounts for consumers to choose high-value providers.

...

The returns are now rolling in for the new coverage that can be offered starting on July 1, and premiums are falling by as much as 69% for Maine's dominant insurer, Anthem.

ObamaCare in Reverse - Johnny Fever - Open Salon

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

How about this??? (emphasis mine)

Maine deregulates the insurance market. Premiums fall.


ObamaCare in Reverse - Johnny Fever - Open Salon

But, if Obama care can make someones prices double, how can they be going down somewhere else This is some funny shizzle.

Electricity deregualtion sure was a boon to consumers.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by zimmy

But, if Obama care can make someones prices double, how can they be going down somewhere else This is some funny shizzle.

Electricity deregualtion sure was a boon to consumers.

You might have answered your own question in your previous post:

Originally Posted by zimmy

Any chance you can specify how the health care bill caused the change in price? Most of the bill doesn't even start to go into effect until after 2013.

[justplugit]

Our State deregulated Auto insurance a while back and my premiums
dropped from $2,000/yr to $1,100/yr for my car and truck.

The Administration has it arse backwards, allow interstate health insurance competition and Tort reform FIRST before spending 2 years concocking some 3,000 page program that no one has a clue of it's entireity.
But common sense like that has been too much to ask for.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

The President and the Democratic leaders in Congress championed this bill and they said it was going to lower the cost of healthcare,” not according to a young Christian College student whose health insurance is going to double from about 600 a year to over 1300 dollars when he returns to college in the fall. He is begining to learn what "Hope and Change is." I am sure other colleges will be dropping their health plan and opting for Obama Care.

This is only the beginning, those of us that have health care thru our employer will be dropped, employer will pay the fine for dropping us which is a small price compared to what they will be saving in the long run.

Any chance you can specify how the health care bill caused the change in price? Most of the bill doesn't even start to go into effect until after 2013. This isn't more right wing "my perception must be reality" ? Or is the spin going to be "Obama said it will go down, but it is going up."? Where did you get your info? Did you investigate the details? Any idea how much health care has gone up over the last 20 years? I understand how if one doesn't like Obama, you could get riled up by this crap, but come on... is it even honest? Sounds like a chain email, actually, or some nutso right wing talk show

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Any chance you can specify how the health care bill caused the change in price? Most of the bill doesn't even start to go into effect until after 2013. :

In 2011 the things that went into effect include:

No annual limit or lifetime limits on essential benefits
Coverage for adult children up to age 26
No pre-ex exclusion for enrollees under 19.

All relatively tiny additions to healthcare costs according to the actuaries but they must be wrong according to "a young Christian College student whose health insurance is going to double from about 600 a year to over 1300 dollars when he returns to college in the fall"

[scottw]

your initial question regarding the first post was....

Originally Posted by zimmy

Any chance you can specify how the health care bill caused the change in price? Most of the bill doesn't even start to go into effect until after 2013. This I understand how if one doesn't like Obama, you could get riled up by this crap, but come on... is it even honest? Sounds like a chain email, actually, or some nutso right wing talk show

there's no shortage of these

Coverage for the new plan year beginning August 1, 2011-July 31, 2012 will be offered through United Health Care. More information will be posted on this website by Mid May. The Annual rate for the Voluntary plan will be $1768.

Drake’s Student Health Insurance
for the Coverage Period of August 1, 2012-July 31, 2013

NOTICE: As of March 16, 2012, new federal Health Care Reform regulations were passed. These changes will result in substantial student health insurance policy changes beginning August 1, 2012. The premium will increase to include the required increased minimum insurance coverage levels.

[Fly Rod]

Zimmy:

college healthcare cost will vary,some will pay a small increase and others will cost a lot more depending on type of coverage.

basically U have been wrong!!! U probably want to cover yourself by saying U R half right, "NA NA....

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

Zimmy:

college healthcare cost will vary,some will pay a small increase and others will cost a lot more depending on type of coverage.

basically U have been wrong!!! U probably want to cover yourself by saying U R half right, "NA NA....

Actually, not one thing posted in this entire thread verifies that the contents of the article in your first post are accurate. I have been wrong plenty of times in these discussions. I will happily admit it that my suspicions that the doubled price is not solely because of the health law, if I am wrong . So basically, I may be wrong, but neither u nor anyone else has demonstrated it. Most of what has been posted backs that up. A few indicate that prices may double for some people, but the only one that is specific (William Patterson) shows that the school did it partially to improve coverage, not that they had no choice because of the law. Please, lets stick with facts. That is all I ever requested from the start.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Actually, not one thing posted in this entire thread verifies that the contents of the article in your first post are accurate.

“Due to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA – commonly known as health care reform), the cost of student health insurance has doubled,” read the letter from the college’s human resources department....

maybe you should contact the college’s human resources department for clarification, verification, substantiation,

New healthcare reform legislation mandates that 2012-2013 student insurance plans must provide increased coverage. These benefit requirements are expected to increase the cost of the student insurance plan. Premiums are anticipated to be between $1,400-$1,800 per year.

I checked(that's up from $654)

how many percent is that zimmy?

your latest schtick where you are really smart and informed and intelligent and everyone else is ignorant, misinformed and willing victims of lies and propoganda and chain emails isn't going so well

[Raven]

SPEAKING OF COMMON SENSE....

i seem to have allot more of it than my primary care physician
who will prescribe for me all kinds of medications that have worse
side effects and cause other subsequent problems than what my original
health malady required.

They all have a similar attitude and that is (pills will fix everything )

that a certain segment of the population will have adverse side effects
and for the most part this is a safe to use medicine for the general population.

[JohnnyD]

With all do respect, we all need to be responsible for our own health. If you have an ailment, you can either take a medication and deal with the side effects or not take the medication and deal with the sickness. Doctors aren't going to prescribe you a selection of herbs and homeopathic therapies for whatever ailment you have.

It's each of our own responsibilities to ask questions about the side effects of a medication and make your own decisions about whether the side effects are worth it or not.

This is coming from someone who's fiance is a primary care provider and does everything in her power *not* to unnecessarily prescribe medications.

[Raven]

SINCE

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Doctors aren't going to prescribe you a selection of herbs and homeopathic therapies for whatever ailment you have.

It's each of our own responsibilities make your own decisions about
.

your own Health


Rather than rely on a 22,000 pages of Bullshet OBAMA health Care Plan

well spoken JD

[Piscator]

Health Insurance costs are skyrocketing for me and my wife. My company no longer allows her to be on my insurance because her company offers a plan. Her company does not allow me on hers since my company offers a plan. This is all new. Now we have 2 deductibles to hit (so much for family coverage plans). The price we are paying for Health Care is insane. Both of our companies blame the rising cost of insurance and point the finger to the insurance companies. Why is it rising??? I’m not sure (coincidence to Obama care? Who knows but I tend to think so) It does piss me off that others get free Health Care when I have to pay through the nose for coverage and knowing my taxes are going to pay for their health care. The reality is the rising costs are REAL and hitting SOME folks hard…………..

Handouts are killing this country, when are we going to wake up?

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Piscator

Health Insurance costs are skyrocketing for me and my wife. My company no longer allows her to be on my insurance because her company offers a plan. Her company does not allow me on hers since my company offers a plan. This is all new. Now we have 2 deductibles to hit (so much for family coverage plans). The price we are paying for Health Care is insane. Both of our companies blame the rising cost of insurance and point the finger to the insurance companies. Why is it rising??? I’m not sure (coincidence to Obama care? Who knows but I tend to think so) It does piss me off that others get free Health Care when I have to pay through the nose for coverage and knowing my taxes are going to pay for their health care. The reality is the rising costs are REAL and hitting SOME folks hard…………..

Handouts are killing this country, when are we going to wake up?

How much did your HC costs rise during Bush? I know ours have gone up pretty steady since before Jan 2009......

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

How much did your HC costs rise during Bush? I know ours have gone up pretty steady since before Jan 2009......

Why does that matter? Obama did not claim that his law was going to "cause costs to rise, but by a smaller amount than they increased under Bush".

Obama said Obamacare would lower costs. Decrease. Not "increase at a lower rate per annum."

You can't insure more people, and increase coverage (like free birth control) for less money. Not possible.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

How much did your HC costs rise during Bush? I know ours have gone up pretty steady since before Jan 2009......

Nothing like the past 2 years for us.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

How much did your HC costs rise during Bush? I know ours have gone up pretty steady since before Jan 2009......

Health insurance companies must have known 10 years ago that Obama was going to quit his job as an organizer of the black panthers, lie about his birth, and do voodoo on his opponents en route to the white house.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Health insurance companies must have known 10 years ago that Obama was going to quit his job as an organizer of the black panthers, lie about his birth, and do voodoo on his opponents en route to the white house.

Interested to see the chart from 2009 -2012.
Why over the last 2 years has my employer and my wife’s employer changed the coverage so that a working spouse cannot be covered under the others plan?? That little change now causes our family to have 2 separate deductibles and a much high overall health care cost. One for me and one for my wife. We ended up putting the kids on my plan.
A chart and graph can be spun anyway the maker wants, all I know is over the past 2 years my families total overall healthcare cost has increased exponentially.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Piscator

Interested to see the chart from 2009 -2012.
Why over the last 2 years has my employer and my wife’s employer changed the coverage so that a working spouse cannot be covered under the others plan??

B/C the companies know that you (and your wife) have the opportunity to get your respective coverage through their own employeer and feel that they shouldn't have to pay the family rate when the single rate is cheaper.

Companies frequently give you $ if you get coverage through a spouse's employment.

Good for the company, sucks for you.

[zimmy]

by the way... let's not leave out what the guy from the cbo actually said:
"the health legislation will increase the federal budgetary commitment to health care."

It doesn't say kids in Catholic schools will have their premiums double. What are the facts?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

by the way... let's not leave out what the guy from the cbo actually said:
"the health legislation will increase the federal budgetary commitment to health care."

It doesn't say kids in Catholic schools will have their premiums double. What are the facts?

Zimmy, you are correct, correlation does not mean causation.

But did you read the article I posted. Those guys, with access to real data, said that Obamacare will increase healthcare costs.

Zimmy, do you doubt, at this point, that Obamacare will increase costs? Where is your proof of that? All you're doing is trying desperately, and unsuccessfully, to poke holes in what everyone else is saying. Do you have any data, any at al, to suggest it will lower costs?

I'll say it again...you cannot add millions to the healthcare system, and give more coverage to them, without increasing costs. It's not possible. Common sense says it's not possible, economics 101 says it's not possible, the CBO says it's not possible, Towers Perrin says it's not possible, and Obama's own agency says it's not possible.

The only basis for denying the increased costs is a fanatical devotion to Obama. There's no other explanation.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

But did you read the article I posted. Those guys, with access to real data, said that Obamacare will increase healthcare costs.

Jim, please show me where in the article it gives any indication that the kids insurance costs doubled because of the law.

The article says "federal burden" will increase. I am not interested in semantics that the federal burden is on us.

Again, I am not saying costs won't go up. I want to know the validity of stating the kids costs doubled because of the law. Apparently, we are two pages in to this and there is not one shred of evidence.


If you are going to keep posting information that makes assumptions about what I think and are your own strange projections , I won't be responding to you again for a long time.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Jim, please show me where in the article it gives any indication that the kids insurance costs doubled because of the law.

The article says "federal burden" will increase. I am not interested in semantics that the federal burden is on us.

Again, I am not saying costs won't go up. I want to know the validity of stating the kids costs doubled because of the law. Apparently, we are two pages in to this and there is not one shred of evidence.


If you are going to keep posting information that makes assumptions about what I think and are your own strange projections , I won't be responding to you again for a long time.

Zimmy, Obamacare increases coverage. That increases costs.

JohnnyD said that Obamacare would increase costs for him. That wasn't good enough for you.

You yourself said that federal burden for healthcare will increase. That means we're spending more on healthcare, which means healthcare costs go up.

I'm not saying that Obamacare is going to mean that my doctor charges me more when I go to get antibiotics.

Zimmy, here is another art5icle about Obamacare increasing costs, maybe this will suffice...

Christian College Says ObamaCare Will Double Insurance Costs | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes

Quotes...

"HHS did say that students will have added benefits under the law – including a rule that prevents insurance companies from putting an annual limit on student health plans"

Zimmy, most plans have limits on the maximum annual benefit...Obamacare does away with this...this means the companies have to pay more benefits, which means the cost must increase.

Good enough? Satisfied?

Obama also bragged that Obamacare would prohibit carriers from dropping people with pre-existing conditions. This necessarily costs insurance companies more, which means the premiums must increase. A child understands this.

Here is another piece...

Obamacare Increases Health Insurance Premiums

"The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that the benefit mandates in Obamacare—in combination with the limited cost-sharing—will increase premiums 27–30 percent in the individual market and up to 3 percent in the small group market"

"Limits on Deductibles

Individuals who do not have co-payments or deductibles lack “skin in the game” and thus have less incentive to economize on their use of health care services. This results in higher premiums for their health insurance. The CBO concludes that a 10 percent decrease in cost-sharing typically increases health care spending by 1–2 percent"

"The average 60-year-old consumes about six times as much health care as the average 20-year-old, but Obamacare mandates that insurers charge the oldest individuals in the risk pool no more than three times the lowest rate. As a result, young individuals will pay much more than the actuarially fair amount for their premiums. Management consulting firm Oliver Wyman estimated that premiums will rise by 45 percent for those age 18–24, 35 percent for those age 25–29, and 26 percent for those age 30–34."

"In order to charge individuals a fair premium, insurers in the individual market engage in underwriting to determine applicant risk. That is, healthy individuals are less of a risk and thus enjoy lower premiums, the same way good drivers get discounts on their auto insurance. Obamacare bans this type of underwriting to rate premiums. The result will be higher premiums for the vast majority of individuals who are relatively healthy. "

"Obamacare is set to reduce the reimbursements doctors and hospitals receive for Medicare. A 2006 Health Affairs piece finds that a 1 percent relative decrease in the average Medicare price is associated with a 0.17 percent increase in the corresponding price paid by privately insured patients. The study found that cost shifting from Medicare and Medicaid to private payers accounted for 12.3 percent of the total increase in the price of private insurance from 1997 to 2001"

"Obamacare includes many new taxes, including a 2.3 percent excise tax on medical devices and annual fees on health insurance providers. A tax placed on insurance companies or medical device companies will be passed to consumers in the form of higher premiums. "

Zimmy, two of my hobbies are tennis and chess. In tennis, we call this "game, set, match", and in chess we call this "checkmate".

Good luck coming coming up with a "yeah, but..." response to this. Try to refrain from calling me a racist...

[Jim in CT]

Zimmy, here is more...

"http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2011/08/09/medicare-actuary-obamacare-will-triple-the-growth-rate-of-net-insurance-costs/"

"Well, the Office of the Actuary in the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services recently put out its annual projections of national health care spending. And, contrary to the President, the actuaries find that Obamacare will dramatically increase the near-term growth rate of health care costs. In 2014, the actuaries find that growth in the net cost of health insurance will increase by nearly 14 percent, compared to 3.5% if PPACA had never passed. The growth rate of private insurance costs will rise to 9.4 percent, from 5.0 percent under prior law: an 88% increase."

Zimmy, enlighten us, tell us why it is that you (and Obama)know more than the Medicare and Medicaid actuaries?

Obama will not utter one breath about Obamacare in this campaign unless the issue is forced. If he really believes that he could increase coverage while reducing costs, he doesn't understand economics 101, and clearly he's not smart enough to lead the economy.

Personally, I'll gladly pay more in taxes if it genuinely helps people. But I know there's no such thing as getting something for nothing. It does not exist, despite what hard-core liberals claim.

The man is unfit for the job, in WAY over his head.

[Redsoxticket]

Once the
legal community gets involved you may see that it is illegal for companies to force you and your spouse to enroll in separate plans of two different insurance companies.
Just a matter of time before there is a class action lawsuit or something like Obamacare to resolve it, don' know.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device