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Old 08-17-2010, 11:49 AM   #1
RIJIMMY
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this mosque thing is blowin up for Barry

I dont have an issue with what he said but it seems like left and right is pissed. The guy cant get a simple message across. He has had to apologize and restate his position more times than any president I can remember. He looks like a goof

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Old 08-17-2010, 12:20 PM   #2
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Is it what he said? or just the "Gotcha" media on both sides.

I agree 100% with him on this one.

My two points on this:
1. It is not at 'Ground Zero' it is actually several blocks away. Newt et al., make it sound like it is being rebuilt as tower #2!

2. As one of the 9/11 victims husbands put it (paraphrasing), ...the day we start compromising our ideals as a nation, one of them being religious freedom, then the terrorists who carried out those horrific acts have won.

Whether I agree or not with this being a perfect site, I love that we live in a country where people are free to do what is their right to do.

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:35 PM   #3
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As he keeps P-ing off more and more Americans his credibility gets weaker, his favorable % drops more and now the Gop has a better chance of winning both the house and senate. All we need now is for Biden to add his two cents.

And now Reid is trying to do damage control, but the fire door is jambed in the open position and he is not using the right retardant.
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:56 PM   #4
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Aand now the Gop has a better chance of winning both the house and senate.
Except that 'Polls' which Spence doesn't believe in, suggest that the GOP's approval is lower then the Dem's in Congress now.

going to be an interesting 2010

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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Old 08-17-2010, 01:19 PM   #5
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I heard someone, a caller to a talk radio program, give a valid suggestion.
They said "Why not have a Multi-faith center at that site?"
It would allow ALL religions equal access with no one being dominant or favored.

Although the proposed site is 2 blocks away from "ground Zero" it is more a question of sesitivity of the topic. Would it be any more favorable to build a Neo-Nazi museum anywhere near the Holocaust Memorial? No, it would be considered a bad choice because of the emotions attached to the history of the events.
The same could be said regarding the mosque location.

Once again it's more a case, I believe, of poor judgement.
It sounds more and more like the all out selling of America to appease "the terrorist" of the world. You know, an amped up version of the "Can't we all get along/Kumbaya/I love you, you love me." rationalization. Instead of standing for something, we appear to be falling for everything!

And that's just not right!
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Old 08-17-2010, 01:28 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND View Post
Is it what he said? or just the "Gotcha" media on both sides.

I agree 100% with him on this one.

My two points on this:
1. It is not at 'Ground Zero' it is actually several blocks away. Newt et al., make it sound like it is being rebuilt as tower #2!

2. As one of the 9/11 victims husbands put it (paraphrasing), ...the day we start compromising our ideals as a nation, one of them being religious freedom, then the terrorists who carried out those horrific acts have won.

Whether I agree or not with this being a perfect site, I love that we live in a country where people are free to do what is their right to do.
Bry - I agree with you......but - what Obama said seems like he is trying to pacify everyone and in the end, saying nothing. The polls show most are against the mosque, something like 70%. O says something, then restates it the next day. Almost to satisfy the population. This is consistent. Remember health care? the guy did roadshow after roadshow and still never got his message across. They need to polish their message.

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Old 08-17-2010, 01:56 PM   #7
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Even WSJ is on him now with their op-ed
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Old 08-17-2010, 02:38 PM   #8
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It is not the federal government's job to state a position on this either way. Would there be this much outrage and talk about preventing construction if it was a Catholic Church being put up? If not, then the same opinions should apply to a mosque.

The relationship between a bunch of Islamic extremists flying planes into the towers and a mosque wanting to be built down the street shouldn't be considered.
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Old 08-17-2010, 03:12 PM   #9
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It is not the federal government's job to state a position on this either way. Would there be this much outrage and talk about preventing construction if it was a Catholic Church being put up? If not, then the same opinions should apply to a mosque.

The relationship between a bunch of Islamic extremists flying planes into the towers and a mosque wanting to be built down the street shouldn't be considered.
What would the chatter be if it was going to be a Synagogue?
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Old 08-17-2010, 03:13 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND View Post
we live in a country where people are free to do what is their right to do.
yeah! so on the bottom floor we can have a medical marijuana Cafe
so everyone can chill out before going in to pray.
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Old 08-17-2010, 04:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
It is not the federal government's job to state a position on this either way. Would there be this much outrage and talk about preventing construction if it was a Catholic Church being put up? If not, then the same opinions should apply to a mosque.

The relationship between a bunch of Islamic extremists flying planes into the towers and a mosque wanting to be built down the street shouldn't be considered.
In principal, you're right. But.....its a matter of sentiment. The people that were responsible for 9/11 made religion a factor. It wasnt the victims. You cant blame people for their feelings against that religion. O should have said what he said day 1 and then shut up. Its not the Feds job to do that. BUT -
its not their job to get involved in Cambridge police business
or racial comments at an NAACP meeting

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Old 08-17-2010, 05:27 PM   #12
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They have erected a mosque at the site of every great victory.
In a country where you can't say "God" in school or put a baby Jesus on a town common the BS over not allowing a mosque within sight of the graves of thousands killed by Muslims is laughable. You can not defend it. Build it elsewhere.
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Old 08-17-2010, 05:32 PM   #13
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How about a Planned Parenthood office too.

This is a very stupid, again, thing. I think it's Bush's fault for not telling him to shut the F* up
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Old 08-17-2010, 06:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman View Post
They have erected a mosque at the site of every great victory.
Good to see the talking points arrived ok.

Quote:
In a country where you can't say "God" in school or put a baby Jesus on a town common the BS over not allowing a mosque within sight of the graves of thousands killed by Muslims is laughable. You can not defend it. Build it elsewhere.
Yes, but from I hear bigots ironically tend to have a good sense of humor.

-spence
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Old 08-17-2010, 06:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishermanTim View Post
I heard someone, a caller to a talk radio program, give a valid suggestion.
They said "Why not have a Multi-faith center at that site?"
It would allow ALL religions equal access with no one being dominant or favored.
Good idea, I'm going to suggest this to the Catholic church down the street from my house. Last time I checked my Episcopal upbringing wasn't good enough to take communion at their alter...

Quote:
Although the proposed site is 2 blocks away from "ground Zero" it is more a question of sesitivity of the topic. Would it be any more favorable to build a Neo-Nazi museum anywhere near the Holocaust Memorial? No, it would be considered a bad choice because of the emotions attached to the history of the events.
The same could be said regarding the mosque location.
This would be a valid argument had the proposal been for a "terrorist recruitment and training center" rather than an Islamic center to provide facilities for recreation and prayer for Muslims.

Serious question. Do you just think all Muslims are terrorists in waiting or are you just not that bright? I don't think that's the case...perhaps just too much FOX and Rush.

This applies to Buck as well.

-spence
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Old 08-17-2010, 08:36 PM   #16
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Good idea, I'm going to suggest this to the Catholic church down the street from my house. Last time I checked my Episcopal upbringing wasn't good enough to take communion at their alter...


This would be a valid argument had the proposal been for a "terrorist recruitment and training center" rather than an Islamic center to provide facilities for recreation and prayer for Muslims.

Serious question. Do you just think all Muslims are terrorists in waiting or are you just not that bright? I don't think that's the case...perhaps just too much FOX and Rush.

This applies to Buck as well.

-spence
I don't think all Muslims are terrorist Spence...But all terrorist are Muslims. You throw the racist, bigot card around just like they taught you. FYI, one of my hunting/fishing buddies is Muslim and the principal of the local Muslim school . My boy goes to the gun club with him often. He thinks it's the wrong place to build it too.
Bottom line. Talking points or not...facts are facts.
Why build it there?????
I guess your the bright bulb on the political forum. We are all better for your wisdom.
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:34 PM   #17
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But all terrorist are Muslims.
What about the IRA?

"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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Old 08-18-2010, 05:52 AM   #18
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What about the IRA?
Are they trying to kill Americans now too???
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Old 08-18-2010, 06:00 AM   #19
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Are they trying to kill Americans now too???
a one bomb country
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Old 08-18-2010, 07:27 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman View Post
I don't think all Muslims are terrorist Spence...But all terrorist are Muslims.
This is only correct when one ignores history.

Quote:
You throw the racist, bigot card around just like they taught you.
It's a simple question. Either you believe Constitutional rights apply to everyone equally or you think those Muslims might be up to something...

The only argument I could see is if the Imam leading the effort was a known terrorist sympathizer, but it looks like the opposite seems to be the case.

Quote:
Bottom line. Talking points or not...facts are facts.
You haven't really stated any facts, aside that you know a Muslim guy who's against it and your kid shoots. Perhaps he's against it because he doesn't want the right wing pundits stirring up anti Islamic sentiment.

Quote:
Why build it there?????
I guess your the bright bulb on the political forum. We are all better for your wisdom.
How many Muslims live and work in the City today? Did you ever think maybe they felt it was a good location for the people who would be going there? It was supposed to be a community center...think easy access...

-spence
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Old 08-18-2010, 07:32 AM   #21
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When will you guys learn that debating or even paying attention to this kind of crap is a waste of time?
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Old 08-18-2010, 07:43 AM   #22
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Do you really believe it is the right wing pundits that are stirring up anti Islamic sentiment, or maybe we could put the blame where it belongs....on the Muslims that commit these cowardly crimes. God forbid you blame the Islamic radicals for their actions.
Just a question... does anyone know if there is a plan for a shrine or tribute to those killed being planned in this "community center" I would guess no.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:25 AM   #23
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Are they trying to kill Americans now too???

Timothy McVeigh....

"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:27 AM   #24
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do they have the right - yes.
Is it insensitive to do this in that location - I think so, and so do a lot of Americans.
What adds on to this is most Americans, including me, do not see the "non - terrorist" muslims being vocal or providing any leadership in the fight against terrorism. So its a one way street - we want the religious freedom to build where we want but we are not with "america" in your fight.
If this was a muslim center for understanding or peace or human rights, etc - I think you'd see a different reaction.

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Old 08-18-2010, 08:29 AM   #25
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Any Japanese temples at pearl harbor?
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:34 AM   #26
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It's been a while since I've seen people attempt to legitimately justify their own bigotry and ignorance.

Hey buck, how about we put all the Muslims in internment camps like they did with the Japanese during WWII?




*Edit* Damn you nebe for beating me to a WWII reference.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:34 AM   #27
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Quote:
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Timothy McVeigh....
Dad - I'll get right to the point since there have been way too many battles on this with RIR, Spence and others on this over the years. Here it is -

If you get on a plane with your kids and there are 5 US army soliders (McVeigh was in the military), 5 Irish speaking guys, 5 Nuns or 5 men in islamic garb - tell me that you would have the same safety concerns regardless of the group? If you say yes, you are dumb.
I cant put it anymore straightforward than that.
I dont worry about sharks when I swim in a lake. My brain has evolved to be able to determine risk based on what I witness and the environment, Its why man is the top of the food chain. Ignoring the overwhelming evidence is counter to evolution.
If you entered the terrorist attack data over the last 50 years into a computer and computed the liklihood of "who" would be most likely to commit a terrorist act the data would be OVERWHELMING that it would be muslim. Facts are facts.

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Old 08-18-2010, 08:37 AM   #28
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Any Japanese temples at pearl harbor?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
they own pearl harbor and everything surrounding it. see what a great country we live in? Its suprising what hard work and partnership can do to heal wounds. Japan is our strongest ally.

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Old 08-18-2010, 08:59 AM   #29
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Do you really believe it is the right wing pundits that are stirring up anti Islamic sentiment, or maybe we could put the blame where it belongs....on the Muslims that commit these cowardly crimes. God forbid you blame the Islamic radicals for their actions.
Just a question... does anyone know if there is a plan for a shrine or tribute to those killed being planned in this "community center" I would guess no.
You're blending up a lot of issues into a sticky mess.

There's a very vocal part of the Right wing in this country that's absolutely anti-Islam. Of this I don't think there can be much debate. You also have a punditry who will use "tolerance" issues to attack Liberals in the political area for short-term gain.

There's also plenty of condemnation for acts of "terrorism" all around. I'd note that you say the "Muslims" that commit these crimes and not the "terrorists" that commit this crimes?

As for a shrine, once again you're lumping terrorists with mainstream Muslims. It's almost as if you believe they should feel guilty for 9/11.

The irony in all of this is that it's exactly what Bin Laden had hoped to achieve. Americans taking away the rights of Muslims in the US because of their faith. And then you wonder why there's such anti-US sentiment in the Islamic world...

-spence
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:06 AM   #30
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The irony in all of this is that it's exactly what Bin Laden had hoped to achieve. Americans taking away the rights of Muslims in the US because of their faith. And then you wonder why there's such anti-US sentiment in the Islamic world...

-spence
ahh - see how you are blinded? No wants to "take away their rights". We have religious freedom, but we alos have freedom of speech. Is it wrong for people to question and react to this?
People believe it is insensitive to do this in that area.
I would think Muslims would understand, no? I mean they (and this is NOT RADICALS) have made death threats for cartoon artisits and writers. they require their woman to cover their faces. they must undertstand emotions, no?

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