We're screwed on Sea bass!

[MakoMike]

These are the three proposals for recreation sea bass fishing for 2011:

1) maintain the current minimum fish size and adjust the possession limit and season;
regulations would include a 12.5 inch TL minimum fish size, 2 fish possession limit (-23 fish),
and an open season from June 1 through July 31 and November 1 through December 31;
[0.2622+0.2410-0.0632] = total reduction* = 44.0 percent

2) maintain the current minimum fish size adjust the possession limit and season; regulations
would include a 12.5 inch TL minimum fish size, 5 fish possession limit (-20 fish), and an open
season from July 1 through September 18 and November 1 through December 31;
[0.3864+0.0787-0.304] = total reduction* = 43.5 percent

3) adjust the minimum fish size and possession limit, maintain season; regulations would
include a 13.0 inch TL minimum fish size (+ 0.5 inch TL), 1 fish possession limit (-24 fish), and
an open season from May 22 through October 11 and November 1 through December 31;

[MakoMike]

So the best we can hope for is to be cut from 25 fish per day to 5 fish perday!

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

So the best we can hope for is to be cut from 25 fish per day to 5 fish perday!

Is the reduction in quota warranted? Why or why not?

[robc22]

We get most of our fish in buzzards bay in may.......no season in may!!!!

[Rob Rockcrawler]

Wow, that is a hell of a drop. I dont target them at all but i read the fisherman every week. Seems that regardless of the open season they are biting every where. If the reduction is warranted because of some good scientific evidence im all for. If its just a grab for commercial fisherman than they really need to look more closely at the issue.

[tattoobob]

Who needs to keep 25 fish a day? that's 1500 fish per 2 month period per person

[niko]

these fish are very abundant and the stocks are in great shape as far as i can tell. i can catch a limit of them, if i wanted that many, in an hour, or two if it's "slow". this is a rediculous reduction. a 1 fish limit - you've got to be kidding me. i'd be fine with a 10 fish limit

[afterhours]

Originally Posted by tattoobob

Who needs to keep 25 fish a day? that's 1500 fish per 2 month period per person

what bob said...

[MAKAI]

Draconian measures , fish "Science" is far from perfect.

[surfkaster]

the daily possession limited is not 25 fish per day, it is 20...

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Is the reduction in quota warranted? Why or why not?

The current stock assessment has the biomass above the level required for maximum sustainable yield. Close to 150% of the MSY required biomass. Evidently the "scientists" don't believe their own numbers. The commercials are getting hit just as bad, its not a fish grab, unless you consider the NMFS to be grabbing the fish. MA was the only state at 20 fish per day, all the other states were at the permitted 25 fish per day. These are often small fish guys, 25 three pound fish doesn't produce a ton of filets, and who goes fishing for them every day. Yes you MA guys are screwed double, because the big fish are up in Buzzards bay in May.

[Clammer]

Commercially in RI last year was horrible because of the dates they had for commercial season .
even late . commercial was shut all of August /was suppose to open 9/1 ,, 3 days before / they sent out a notice that it wasn,t going to open til 11/1 >3 days after that they extended the rec. ;;

Rumor was [is] that MA. sea bass both rec & commercial in 2010 ,,,,was a slam /blam than you maam season ><><><


as a good friend & a very knowledgeable fisherman has said over & over ........ what ever they purpose or actually put into effect ............just figure that fisherie is in the complete opposite of what they say/do ;

[robc22]

Originally Posted by tattoobob

Who needs to keep 25 fish a day? that's 1500 fish per 2 month period per person

What?? you work for nmfs's?......that how they add things up.....lottsa rec. folks sea bass 3 or 4 times a year tops and TRY to fill the freezer, whats wrong with that?......and since sea bass are boat caught fish.....not cheap to run a boat these days.....most guys try to get the most out of the day they run there boat.......again, what's wrong with that?

[tattoobob]

I don't have a problem with what you state, I'm just saying my example is excessive IMO

[afterhours]

instead of the usual "let's kill 'em 'till there gone"...i think it's good to be proactive for once. sure wish they'd treat stripers the same way.

[InTheHole]

I agree if there is a problem, adjust the limit, size, season.... but how in the world do you go from 20 fish a day in Mass to the possibility of 1 fish a day over the course of the winter? What is the basis for such a drastic reduction ?

[Mr. Sandman]

Like I said elsewhere...fishery agency problems are unfix-able.

Turning on and off fisheries is not "management".

The "1500 fish / month is not enough for you?" thinking is rampant esp when comm fishermen are pitted against recs. I would bet no one fishes anywhere near that much as it is asinine to make such assumptions. In reality most people will stop fishing for them when the catch limit is low. Look at Tog in MA...3/day, many of the fishing reports show guys not even trying because it is not worth it for a 3 bag limit. I heard the same argument for fluke when cuts there were being battered about.


What I want to know is if NMF folks are assuming we go every day and take our limit? That is what is sounds like. If not what is their assumption(s) to assume a 45% reduction?

[InTheHole]

[QUOTE=Mr. Sandman;811948]Like I said elsewhere...fishery agency problems are unfix-able.

Turning on and off fisheries is not "management".

That is a good point, if the stock is in such dire straits that we go from 20 to 1 bag limit, how is it possible that "they" did not see this coming 1 or 2 seasons ago and make adjustments then? Maybe we just don't have all the facts at hand.... but this just does not add up.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by afterhours

instead of the usual "let's kill 'em 'till there gone"...i think it's good to be proactive for once. sure wish they'd treat stripers the same way.

Exactly my thought. Unfortunately, many people have a mindset of "if fisheries managers aren't letting us exploit a species to the fullest, then they aren't doing their job."

That mentality is working at well for the striped bass.

[Fishoholic]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

These are the three proposals for recreation sea bass fishing for 2011:

1) maintain the current minimum fish size and adjust the possession limit and season;
regulations would include a 12.5 inch TL minimum fish size, 2 fish possession limit (-23 fish),
and an open season from June 1 through July 31 and November 1 through December 31;
[0.2622+0.2410-0.0632] = total reduction* = 44.0 percent

2) maintain the current minimum fish size adjust the possession limit and season; regulations
would include a 12.5 inch TL minimum fish size, 5 fish possession limit (-20 fish), and an open
season from July 1 through September 18 and November 1 through December 31;
[0.3864+0.0787-0.304] = total reduction* = 43.5 percent

3) adjust the minimum fish size and possession limit, maintain season; regulations would
include a 13.0 inch TL minimum fish size (+ 0.5 inch TL), 1 fish possession limit (-24 fish), and
an open season from May 22 through October 11 and November 1 through December 31;

what a crock of %$%$%$%$! Sure wish these guys would pull their heads out of their asses.. maybe actually try fishing for them.. then they will see the true condition of the stocks..

[Mr. Sandman]

[QUOTE=InTheHole;811970]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

Like I said elsewhere...fishery agency problems are unfix-able.

Turning on and off fisheries is not "management".

That is a good point, if the stock is in such dire straits that we go from 20 to 1 bag limit, how is it possible that "they" did not see this coming 1 or 2 seasons ago and make adjustments then? Maybe we just don't have all the facts at hand.... but this just does not add up.

"They" (Fishery groups) used the same "logic" for SB..complete moratorium....maybe it was warranted but THEY HAD BEEN MAGAGING THE SPECIES FOR DECADES PRIOR!!! This is what kills me...they keep patting themselves on the back for a job well done and saving the bass but in FACT they did nothing in terms of actually managing the species. The fact is THEY were (and still are) more part of the problem then the solution. This is why fishery management is an unfixable problem. The government must disband all fishery departments and start with some conservative approaches. This harvesting the maximum yield theory does not work. We should not consider the oceans a farm and try to squeeeeze every last drop of resource from it.

[MAKAI]

Any idea why the word " Harvest " is used so much ?
Wouldn't harvest imply farming, taking care of the land, seeding, nurturing then harvesting. Then do it all over next season.
I don't see a parallel.

" Harvest " is the wrong word.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

Any idea why the word " Harvest " is used so much ?
Wouldn't harvest imply farming, taking care of the land, seeding, nurturing then harvesting. Then do it all over next season.
I don't see a parallel.

" Harvest " is the wrong word.

"Harvest" sounds better than "Kill".

Is hamburger "harvested"?

[robc22]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

"Harvest" sounds better than "Kill".

Is hamburger "harvested"?

The fish and game folks apply the word "harvest" when referring to hunting as well .......as in harvesting a deer.....go figure?

[numbskull]

I suspect the result of the fluke mess has been to shift recreational fishing pressure onto seabass and the ASMFC suspects the current level of pressure is unsustainable.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Exactly my thought. Unfortunately, many people have a mindset of "if fisheries managers aren't letting us exploit a species to the fullest, then they aren't doing their job."

That mentality is working at well for the striped bass.

The stock is at 150% of the msy biomass. They are supposed to manage to the msy biomass, that is the law. The problem is twofold 1) they don't believe their own numbers and 2) they are taking so many
'precautionary" measures that it makes the stock assessment meaningless. If they managed striped bass like this we wouldn't have a 2011 season!

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by afterhours

instead of the usual "let's kill 'em 'till there gone"...i think it's good to be proactive for once. sure wish they'd treat stripers the same way.

If they did manage striped bass this way we would't have a season!

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by robc22

The fish and game folks apply the word "harvest" when referring to hunting as well .......as in harvesting a deer.....go figure?

Just another example of the same situation. Sounds better to the general public to say the animals were "harvested" than "killed". The whole thing seems silly to me and it's merely done as a PR thing.

Originally Posted by MakoMike

The stock is at 150% of the msy biomass. They are supposed to manage to the msy biomass, that is the law. The problem is twofold 1) they don't believe their own numbers and 2) they are taking so many
'precautionary" measures that it makes the stock assessment meaningless. If they managed striped bass like this we wouldn't have a 2011 season!

MSV is a terrible metric that is impossible to reliably compute because it is based on numbers with a massive margin for error.

Some precaution might just be a good thing. I wish they'd use some precaution when managing striped bass. While you say that if they managed striped bass like this you wouldn't have a season, I say that if they don't *start* managing striped bass like this then eventually there will be no fish to have a season for.

[JackK]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

If they did manage striped bass this way we would't have a season!

If they cut the S-B daily take by ~40 percent, and increased the size limit, we'd have 1 fish per day at 36", which many people (myself included) seem to be in favor of.

[big jay]

NMFS is now run by the Pew Foundation and they're very simple goal is to stop all fishing.
Get used to it.