Epoxy issue? I think.

[chefchris401]

So i sealed and primed and painted a bunch of plugs the other day. And epoxied the following day. They all looked fine until closer inspection.

All the plugs were epoxied w etex, weighed out and mixed thoroughly.

But two of the needles have issues.

The tail of them is loose, like the epoxy on top is hard but the underneath is not set up. And you can move the epoxy around.

All the plugs were allowed to dry for at least three weeks in a warm room about 70 degrees.

Only two of them out of about 24 have this problem.

Should I just let them cure longer?

I flip my plugs when I do the etex. These were allowed to dry hanging tail down, so my thought is that te epoxy just pooled up and needs to cure??

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Chef

[wrikerjr]

give it a couple of days and let us know.

[chefchris401]

I reversed the way they were hanging, hoping that helps.
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[Slipknot]

how many of the 24 did you get from one mixed batch of epoxy?

sometimes when mixing, you might inadvertently not scrape the sides enough and then when applying, you get some from those sides that aren't mixed evenly.

I built a stitch and glue boat so I mixed a LOT of epoxy.

it can happen

that's all I can think of

[chefchris401]

I get about 6 to 8 plugs per batch.

I mixed 3 batches, over the course of an hour or so.

Always use the two cup method, and I weigh te epoxy on a postal scale.

Hopefully it cures in a few days, if not, I'll just tape and reshoot and reepoxy.
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[ProfessorM]

epoxy is always an issue. God i hate the stuff. It is so evil no matter what brand I use sooner or later, whaaa. Just when you think you got it down pat it rears it's ugly head and I have not even started epoxying anything yet. I can hardly wait. Sorry I couldn't offer you anything informative because if I did I'd be lying. I wing it every time and hope and pray for the best is my best advise.

[Slipknot]

I would not trust a postage scale

envirotex is 1 to 1 so it should not be that hard with the 2 cup method to get them even I would think

I use baby medicine syringes myself for small quantities

I'm not sure why you have trouble with only a couple small areas

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by chefchris401

Always use the two cup method, and I weigh te epoxy on a postal scale.

]

Resin and hardener don't weigh the same so it is usually not a 1:1 mix by weight.

Don't stir with wood, it absorbs hardener more than resin which can be an issue with small batches.

Add resin to hardener, not vice versa.....why I'm not sure but System three's epoxy book makes a point of it.

stir 3 minutes and time it or you'll cheat

[Muskyslayer96]

CC401

I am by now means an expert, and I have literally pulled my hair out with frustration. This works for ME and I have encountered the same issues you have. These steps have resulted in crystal clear, rock hard finishes and practically zero failures.

I have had the same issue happen to my E-tex at times and I have also had it cloudy. I ran myself ragged trying to determine if it was too humid, too cold, bad lot of E-tex, etc.

My final conclusion: I was not mixing the small amounts correctly (not truly 50/50)
1. In the winter my finishing area is around 65 degrees, I turn on a small space heater about an hour before I'm going to clear the baits.
2. I place the resin and hardner bottles very close to the heater and turn them at times to get them warm (they are reading when they both are warm to the touch and flow/pour easily)
3. Use small graduated mixing cups, pour resin slowly on a leveling tray or surface and let it lay down and level. Add hardner on top and pour slowly so it will level out to exactly where you want it.
4. Mix well for 2 minutes, transfer to a new mixing container, mix again for and additional 2 minutes. Do not worry about bubbles (more on that later).
5. After mixing pour out onto an old ceramic plate (also warmed near the heater), with a layer of tinfoil over it.
6. This will make a very thin layer of well mixed E-tex. This have a couple of advantages. It will extend the working time of the E-tex because it will lower the amount of heat generated by the reaction between the resin and hardner. (a large mix left in a mixing cup can get pretty hot and then it sets up FAST). The thin layer will also leave the bubbles created while mixing very close to the surface and hence easy to escape.
7. I cover the plate and let sit for 5-10 minutes. You will have virtually zero bubbles after this time frame and the frustrating electrostatic charge that the reaction has and its propensity to attract dust will be greatly reduced.
8. Hit the bait you are going to coat with a hairdryer for a bit to bring it's surface temp up, this will allow the E-tex to practically glide onto the bait. Slop it on and then get work it into a thin even layer.
9. Put on drying wheel (attached). i keep my eye on it for the first 30 min to make sure there are no sags or fish eyes, after this you will do more damage trying to correct because the set up reaction is progressing.
10. Rotate for 5-6 hours, or until it has set up and will not flow or sag.
11. Place in a drying box (this is the key, I built mine for a couple of dollars, pic attached). I have a 40 watt bulb in mine gets the tep to 110 very fast and I control the temp by opening/closing the top hatch. I keep the baits in the heated drying box for approx. 18 hours.
11. This will give you a crystal clear rock hard coat. i apologize for the lenght of this post, but I struggled for my first year and a half and almost gave up because of crappy clear coat on some of my best paint jobs. This has worked for me, I can only attest to my results and opinions will differ.
Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
Good clearing luck in the new year and Happy Holidays.

MS

[chefchris401]

Thanks for all the help guys, some great advice.

It's weird it's just the tail ends from the plugs hanging. Hopefully it cures.

And yes I will go back to eyeing it with measuring cups as I only do small batches cause I hate the epoxy stage.

Good tips guys!! Thanks again
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[stripermaineiac]

Sounds like some form of contaminant on the plugs. silicone will do it and oils will also cause epoxy to react that way. Found this out the hard way with all the rods I've built over the years. It may not even have been something you did but a family member cleaning or working on a toy.One time it was the cat after eating some tuna. Sneezed near one of the wraps. Whole rod came out great but that one wrap. My son reminded me of the cat. Ron

[chefchris401]

Interesting Ron, maybe something on the gloves like the top one that's exposed.

I'll have to try and keep that in mind.

Thanks
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[robalomann5]

'I soak mine 2 to 3 hours, let drip dry and wipe down.

Thats my method and has worked for me. "
...how long do you dry after soaking for 2-3 hrs???? maybe this has something to do with it

[chefchris401]

After soaking in sealer the plugs have dried for at least two weeks, in a 70 degree room.

It's just odd cause it's only that one area on two plugs.

I switched the order they were hanging and it already is better. Maybe the epoxy just pooled up?
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[Swimmer]

Curious if there are any moisture issues, maybe down cellar, where they are hanging. I stopped having any problems after wife and I bought a dehumidifier. No more moisture, everything dries well, icluding the rods I build.

[stripermaineiac]

i just painted a batch of needles and Spooks yesterday. All came out good but 2 of them alligatored on me in the same spot. Both plugs were soaked,primed and sanded the same way at the same time as all the rest.Go figure. Both done with rattle can from the same can as all the rest were. Just a gremblin problem. LOL So some times there just plain is no reason to be figured.Haven't had this happen since I changed to singular product in primer,paints and minwax soak last fall. Over 2000 plugs since it last happened. Go figure. Ron

[chefchris401]

I hang mine in the closet that's heated, no moisture at all, nice and dry.

I reversed the way they were hanging and th problem went away!!!

So I think maybe the epoxy was too thick, the top dried while the lower layer wasn't dry, just needed a few more days.
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[pbadad]

I think the simplest way to measure e-tex is with rod builders syringes from Flexcoat. graduated and doing small amounts are no problem. I've done as small as 1/2 cc each part w/no issues. mix three minutes pour in a larger tin , wait a minute or so if there are bubbles and brush away. When useing measuring cups , pour the hardener first, then the resin. The hardener is thinner and it levels. Add resin to bring level to desired amount. Hope this helps.

[Muskyslayer96]

CC401, Here are a couple of pics of my drying box (cardboard with 1 inch pink board sides and bottom, and a 40 watt bulb) and then the drying wheel.

Happy New Year,

MS

[chefchris401]

Thanks MS!!! Happy new year to you too.

Thanks for the pics!!

Looks like I have two more projects.
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[seabuggy]

One of the other posters said use a hair dryer to spread out the etex. That is what I do and I rarely have a problem. I use Flex=Coat syringes available at CMS in New Bedford. Mine are dried on a jig similar to yours that turns on my rod making lathe. I have made hundreds of rods and rarely have a problem. If my plugs are drying overnight, I place a cardboard box over the turning plugs and hang a 40 watt light bulb over this rough enclosure. I only use this if the temps are very low or the humidity is high. I have more problems in high humidity with rods than plugs.