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Old 11-23-2019, 12:22 PM   #1
Pete F.
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Gym Jordan’s hometown paper

CLEVELAND -- Of all the regions in all the states in all the country, Jim Jordan got dragged into ours. There was no good reason to punish Greater Cleveland by making the person who’s now the second most contemptible human being in the entire U.S. government part of the region’s delegation to Congress. Worse yet, the betrayal was bipartisan.
When Ohio’s political and legislative leaders were drawing new congressional boundaries prior to the 2012 election, Democrats wanted a district that would protect U.S. Rep. Marcia Fudge. Republicans wanted districts that would elect the maximum number of GOP congressmen. And some people from both parties wanted a district that would likely lead to the defeat of longtime Cleveland Rep. Dennis Kucinich.
They all got what they wanted.

But to make it work required drawing a hideously gerrymandered district for the southwest Ohio congressman, one that meanders some 200 miles from near Dayton north into Lorain County near Cleveland.

And now it’s fitting that Republicans have given this seven-term sycophant a starring role in the televised House Intelligence Committee impeachment hearings against President Donald Trump. The assignment comes as Jordan is being credibly accused by some of knowingly turning a blind eye to sexual abuse by a team doctor when Jordan was an assistant wrestling coach at Ohio State University from 1987 to 1994.
At least five people – four of them former wrestlers and one of them a longtime friend – have said Jordan had to have known former OSU team doctor Richard Strauss was on a sexual rampage that would include -- according to OSU -- 1,429 sexual assaults and 47 rapes of student patients during Strauss’ time at the school (1978 to 1998) prior to his suicide in 2005.
That makes Jordan an ideal candidate to lead the defense of a malignant president who has bragged about physically abusing women and who has been accused by two dozen women of sexual assault or misconduct.

Jordan was appointed to the Intelligence Committee the same day, Nov. 8, that NBC reported on a lawsuit filed early this month in which a former wrestling referee alleges Strauss masturbated in front of him in the shower following an OSU wrestling match in 1994.

When the referee told Jordan what happened, he alleges that Jordan blew him off with, “Yeah, that’s Strauss.”

As the allegations pile up, Jordan’s denials remain unchanged. He dismissed the latest one as “ridiculous.”
People have every right to believe Jordan’s angry dismissals. Common sense suggests they’d probably be better off believing five men who have no reason to lie.

When Jordan slithers out from under his rock each morning, dons a shirt and tie - sans the jacket, lest he be mistaken for Joe McCarthy - his life’s work is to besmirch everything America stands for in service of Donald Trump.

If it takes undermining yet another principle of democracy by condoning attacks on men and women who have devoted their lives in honorable service to this country, Jordan is always ready and willing.

If it takes changing the Trump defense strategy on an almost daily basis because facts keep getting in the way, Jordan is the ideal bootlicker. Trump’s support is all that seems to matter to the man former House Speaker John Boehner regularly referred to as "a legislative terrorist” – along with a whole bunch of other descriptions unfit for print.
Why would Jordan so readily ruin what little was left of his reputation? One theory holds he hopes to inherit Trump’s base for a presidential run of his own in 2024. The swamp will be a crowded place in four years, overrun with loathsome folks angling to continue the dastardly business of shredding the Constitution.

Michael Gerson’s credentials to analyze Jordan are impeccable. He is an evangelical Christian, lifelong Republican and onetime chief speechwriter to former President George W. Bush.

In his Washington Post column of Nov. 14, Gerson showed his keen understanding of Jordan, describing him as “the Truly Trumpian Man – guided by bigotry, seized by conspiracy theories, dismissive of facts and truth, indifferent to ethics, contemptuous of institutional norms and ruthlessly dedicated to the success of a demagogue.”

Gerson applied the identical description to Stephen Miller, the White House resident white supremacist.

Everything about Jordan reeks of a man willing to cast aside common decency and fairness in service of a corrupt and cruel president.

He may be the most unfit man to ever represent part of Greater Cleveland in Congress.

Brent Larkin was The Plain Dealer’s editorial director from 1991 until his retirement in 2009.

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

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Old 11-23-2019, 12:35 PM   #2
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CLEVELAND -- Of all the regions in all the states in all the country, Jim Jordan got dragged into ours. There was no good reason to punish Greater Cleveland by making the person who’s now the second most contemptible human being in the entire U.S. government part of the region’s delegation to Congress. Worse yet, the betrayal was bipartisan.
When Ohio’s political and legislative leaders were drawing new congressional boundaries prior to the 2012 election, Democrats wanted a district that would protect U.S. Rep. Marcia Fudge. Republicans wanted districts that would elect the maximum number of GOP congressmen. And some people from both parties wanted a district that would likely lead to the defeat of longtime Cleveland Rep. Dennis Kucinich.
They all got what they wanted.

But to make it work required drawing a hideously gerrymandered district for the southwest Ohio congressman, one that meanders some 200 miles from near Dayton north into Lorain County near Cleveland.

And now it’s fitting that Republicans have given this seven-term sycophant a starring role in the televised House Intelligence Committee impeachment hearings against President Donald Trump. The assignment comes as Jordan is being credibly accused by some of knowingly turning a blind eye to sexual abuse by a team doctor when Jordan was an assistant wrestling coach at Ohio State University from 1987 to 1994.
At least five people – four of them former wrestlers and one of them a longtime friend – have said Jordan had to have known former OSU team doctor Richard Strauss was on a sexual rampage that would include -- according to OSU -- 1,429 sexual assaults and 47 rapes of student patients during Strauss’ time at the school (1978 to 1998) prior to his suicide in 2005.
That makes Jordan an ideal candidate to lead the defense of a malignant president who has bragged about physically abusing women and who has been accused by two dozen women of sexual assault or misconduct.

Jordan was appointed to the Intelligence Committee the same day, Nov. 8, that NBC reported on a lawsuit filed early this month in which a former wrestling referee alleges Strauss masturbated in front of him in the shower following an OSU wrestling match in 1994.

When the referee told Jordan what happened, he alleges that Jordan blew him off with, “Yeah, that’s Strauss.”

As the allegations pile up, Jordan’s denials remain unchanged. He dismissed the latest one as “ridiculous.”
People have every right to believe Jordan’s angry dismissals. Common sense suggests they’d probably be better off believing five men who have no reason to lie.

When Jordan slithers out from under his rock each morning, dons a shirt and tie - sans the jacket, lest he be mistaken for Joe McCarthy - his life’s work is to besmirch everything America stands for in service of Donald Trump.

If it takes undermining yet another principle of democracy by condoning attacks on men and women who have devoted their lives in honorable service to this country, Jordan is always ready and willing.

If it takes changing the Trump defense strategy on an almost daily basis because facts keep getting in the way, Jordan is the ideal bootlicker. Trump’s support is all that seems to matter to the man former House Speaker John Boehner regularly referred to as "a legislative terrorist” – along with a whole bunch of other descriptions unfit for print.
Why would Jordan so readily ruin what little was left of his reputation? One theory holds he hopes to inherit Trump’s base for a presidential run of his own in 2024. The swamp will be a crowded place in four years, overrun with loathsome folks angling to continue the dastardly business of shredding the Constitution.

Michael Gerson’s credentials to analyze Jordan are impeccable. He is an evangelical Christian, lifelong Republican and onetime chief speechwriter to former President George W. Bush.

In his Washington Post column of Nov. 14, Gerson showed his keen understanding of Jordan, describing him as “the Truly Trumpian Man – guided by bigotry, seized by conspiracy theories, dismissive of facts and truth, indifferent to ethics, contemptuous of institutional norms and ruthlessly dedicated to the success of a demagogue.”

Gerson applied the identical description to Stephen Miller, the White House resident white supremacist.

Everything about Jordan reeks of a man willing to cast aside common decency and fairness in service of a corrupt and cruel president.

He may be the most unfit man to ever represent part of Greater Cleveland in Congress.

Brent Larkin was The Plain Dealer’s editorial director from 1991 until his retirement in 2009.
lots and lots of insults. short on supporting evidence. but we know your side likes accusations more than they
like evidence.
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Old 11-23-2019, 12:39 PM   #3
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i read Gersons editorial
on Jordan. He called him a bigot and offered absolutely zero evidence. Other then the fact that he’s sefending Trump.

Pete, every person here knows what it means, when those with TDS lob baseless
charges of bigotry and racism. It means you know you’re losing, but you can’t bear to admit it.

Very, very hard to have a conversation with you. you think i saying “Jordan is a bigot” makes it so. Literally, you think the accusation is evidence of itself.
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Old 11-23-2019, 12:45 PM   #4
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Michael Gerson’s credentials to analyze Jordan are impeccable. He is an evangelical Christian, lifelong Republican and onetime chief speechwriter to former President George W. Bush.
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Old 11-23-2019, 01:14 PM   #5
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Michael Gerson’s credentials to analyze Jordan are impeccable. He is an evangelical Christian, lifelong Republican and onetime chief speechwriter to former President George W. Bush.
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i know all about Gerson, and I really like him. I own his book Compassionate Conservatism, and read it cover to cover, and I found it very moving. But Gerson being an evangelical, isn't proof that Jordan is a bigot. Is it?

Pete, I will vote for Trump. One of the many reasons why, is that the evidence is very clear, that despite Trumps vulgar tweets, more blacks will get lifted out of poverty with Trumps policies, than the policies of any of the democratic candidates. I am certain that's the case, the empirical evidence is pretty compelling. Does that make me racist?

Now please share some proof, any proof, that Jordan is a bigot? Nothing on Gerson's resume is proof that Jim Jordan is a bigot. Gerson might have been valedictorian of his high school, that doesn't mean Jim Jordan is a bigot.

Your "evidence" was Gerson's accusation, and the words of some other nut who happened to like the accusation. Somehow to you, that's evidence.
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Old 11-23-2019, 03:44 PM   #6
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I watched Gym Jordan lie, misquote and yell like an idiot at fact witnesses in a congressional hearing, interrupting their response if he didn’t like it and in general acting like a fool.
Glad he impresses someone
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Old 11-23-2019, 05:09 PM   #7
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I watched Gym Jordan lie, misquote and yell like an idiot at fact witnesses in a congressional hearing, interrupting their response if he didn’t like it and in general acting like a fool.
Glad he impresses someone
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Pete: Jordan is a bigot, because some guy was impressed that Mike Gerson said so.

Jim: what's the evidence that Jordan is a bigot:

Pete: Gerson's resume is impressive

Jim: I agree. But what's the evidence that Jordan is a bigot?

Pete: I saw him lie, misquote, and yell at a witness.

One last time, Pete...what is the evidence he's a bigot? I'm not interested in evidence that he's a grey haired white guy, or that he's gruff, or even that he's a cannibal. You posted that he's a bigot. I've asked you twice previously, you've had all day, what's the evidence he's a bigot?

Answer: there is no evidence he's a bigot. But he disagrees with you on some policies, so he must be destroyed, no matter how fabricated the charges you need to levy against him.

You're pathetic. In a couple of days you quoted Ken Starr in an amazingly misleading fashion, now you're making up charges of bigotry out of thin air. People who really feel the facts are on their side, don't resort to this BS.

I didn't say I was impressed with Jordan. I asked for evidence of the accusation you made. I'm not even saying he's a good guy. I'm saying accusations of bigotry from your side, are getting tiresome.

You must be some obsessed with him, if you maintain he's a bigot, despite having zero evidence.
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Old 11-23-2019, 07:19 PM   #8
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Michael Gerson’s credentials to analyze Jordan are impeccable. He is an evangelical Christian, lifelong Republican and onetime chief speechwriter to former President George W. Bush.
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His speech was perfect.
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PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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Old 11-24-2019, 05:25 PM   #9
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His speech was perfect.

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ha ha...I saw a werewolf drinkin' a pina colada at trader vic's...and his hair was perfect
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Old 11-25-2019, 09:56 AM   #10
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Pete: Jordan is a bigot, because some guy was impressed that Mike Gerson said so.

Jim: what's the evidence that Jordan is a bigot:

Pete: Gerson's resume is impressive

Jim: I agree. But what's the evidence that Jordan is a bigot?

Pete: I saw him lie, misquote, and yell at a witness.

One last time, Pete...what is the evidence he's a bigot? I'm not interested in evidence that he's a grey haired white guy, or that he's gruff, or even that he's a cannibal. You posted that he's a bigot. I've asked you twice previously, you've had all day, what's the evidence he's a bigot?

Answer: there is no evidence he's a bigot. But he disagrees with you on some policies, so he must be destroyed, no matter how fabricated the charges you need to levy against him.

You're pathetic. In a couple of days you quoted Ken Starr in an amazingly misleading fashion, now you're making up charges of bigotry out of thin air. People who really feel the facts are on their side, don't resort to this BS.

I didn't say I was impressed with Jordan. I asked for evidence of the accusation you made. I'm not even saying he's a good guy. I'm saying accusations of bigotry from your side, are getting tiresome.

You must be some obsessed with him, if you maintain he's a bigot, despite having zero evidence.
What gets tiring is your victimization by one word out of hundreds

The definition of bigotry from the Oxford Dictionary is: intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself

I certainly agree with Gerson that Gym Jordan continually exhibits the behavior of a bigot by the Oxford definition.

So Jim, take the ONE word out that triggers you and defend Gym Jordan from Gerson's statement.

“the Truly Trumpian Man – guided by xxxxxxx, seized by conspiracy theories, dismissive of facts and truth, indifferent to ethics, contemptuous of institutional norms and ruthlessly dedicated to the success of a demagogue.”

You can't because the pathos that drives you to support Floridaman and his toadies at any cost won't let you.

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

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Old 11-25-2019, 10:06 AM   #11
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What gets tiring is your victimization by one word out of hundreds

The definition of bigotry from the Oxford Dictionary is: intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself

I certainly agree with Gerson that Gym Jordan continually exhibits the behavior of a bigot by the Oxford definition.

So Jim, take the ONE word out that triggers you and defend Gym Jordan from Gerson's statement.

“the Truly Trumpian Man – guided by xxxxxxx, seized by conspiracy theories, dismissive of facts and truth, indifferent to ethics, contemptuous of institutional norms and ruthlessly dedicated to the success of a demagogue.”

You can't because the pathos that drives you to support Floridaman and his toadies at any cost won't let you.
"So Jim, take the ONE word out that triggers you and defend Gym Jordan from Gerson's statement.'

When that one word, is constantly used by your side to demonize everyone who disagrees with them. I just asked for evidence. I still don't see any, other than you said you agree with it. That's not evidence.

"Indifferent to ethics"? Jordan is amoral? Again, evidence, please. You seem to be under the impression that you stating a criticism, is evidence that it's valid criticism. It's not.
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:16 AM   #12
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"So Jim, take the ONE word out that triggers you and defend Gym Jordan from Gerson's statement.'

When that one word, is constantly used by your side to demonize everyone who disagrees with them. I just asked for evidence. I still don't see any, other than you said you agree with it. That's not evidence.

"Indifferent to ethics"? Jordan is amoral? Again, evidence, please. You seem to be under the impression that you stating a criticism, is evidence that it's valid criticism. It's not.

Apparently you have no issue with Gym Jordan, if you can't see the issues with him, I won't be able to convince a bigot like you any differently.

That's the Oxford definition but if you choose to project other meanings onto it, feel free.

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

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Old 11-25-2019, 10:22 AM   #13
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Apparently you have no issue with Gym Jordan, if you can't see the issues with him, I won't be able to convince a bigot like you any differently.

That's the Oxford definition but if you choose to project other meanings onto it, feel free.
My issue, is with those who toss around labels like "bigot", while offering exactly zero evidence. I asked you 4-5 times for evidence, any evidence, that Jordan is what you, or the author you quoted, say he is.'

Let's stick with the Oxford definition. What's the evidence that Jordan has any malice for everyone who disagrees with him? Because he was gruff with a couple of impeachment witnesses, makes him a bigot? Is that what you're suggesting?

You're having a tough week, Pete. Take some deep breaths.
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:24 AM   #14
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Apparently you have no issue with Gym Jordan, if you can't see the issues with him, I won't be able to convince a bigot like you any differently.

That's the Oxford definition but if you choose to project other meanings onto it, feel free.
Last week on national TV, CNN "anchor" Don Lemon said that everyone who disagrees with him on Trump's behavior, is "mental". That's the word he used.

Would you say Don Lemon is a bigot?
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Old 11-25-2019, 11:14 AM   #15
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My issue, is with those who toss around labels like "bigot", while offering exactly zero evidence. I asked you 4-5 times for evidence, any evidence, that Jordan is what you, or the author you quoted, say he is.'

Let's stick with the Oxford definition. What's the evidence that Jordan has any malice for everyone who disagrees with him? Because he was gruff with a couple of impeachment witnesses, makes him a bigot? Is that what you're suggesting?

You're having a tough week, Pete. Take some deep breaths.
Class act in action

He gets far more leeway in Congress than he would in a court of law, though that doesn't matter since he never passed the bar.


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Old 11-25-2019, 11:17 AM   #16
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Class act in action

He gets far more leeway in Congress than he would in a court of law, though that doesn't matter since he never passed the bar.

And I can post video of Schiff interrupting witnesses and fellow Congressmen. SO if interrupting people makes Jordan a bigot, what does interrupting people make Schiff...let me guess...a hero.
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Old 11-25-2019, 11:21 AM   #17
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Last week on national TV, CNN "anchor" Don Lemon said that everyone who disagrees with him on Trump's behavior, is "mental". That's the word he used.

Would you say Don Lemon is a bigot?
By definition, yes.

That might also mean, he is prejudiced.

In this case it might mean he exhibits some common sense, but your prejudice and bigotry won't let you see that.

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Old 11-25-2019, 11:32 AM   #18
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And I can post video of Schiff interrupting witnesses and fellow Congressmen. SO if interrupting people makes Jordan a bigot, what does interrupting people make Schiff...let me guess...a hero.
What about Schiff, is it?

I would surmise that if Schiff was not in Congress, he could return to his career as a prosecuting attorney.

Jim Jordan???????

Lets see what they both did after graduating from law school

Schiff
After law school, Schiff served as a law clerk for Judge William Matthew Byrne Jr. of the United States District Court for the Central District of California. From 1987 to 1993, he was an Assistant United States Attorney in the Office of the United States Attorney for the Central District of California. While in this position, Schiff came to public attention when he prosecuted the case against Richard Miller, a former FBI agent who was convicted of spying for the Soviet Union.
Then he went into politics.

Jordan
Jordan was an assistant wrestling coach with Ohio State University's (OSU) wrestling program from 1987 to 1995. During his tenure as Assistant Coach, at least 53 members of the Wrestling Team were sexually abused by the team physician. Jordan has refused to cooperate with the investigations into sexual misconduct at OSU and has refused all requests to be interviewed.
Then he went into politics.

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

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Old 11-25-2019, 01:55 PM   #19
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What about Schiff, is it?

I would surmise that if Schiff was not in Congress, he could return to his career as a prosecuting attorney.

Jim Jordan???????

Lets see what they both did after graduating from law school

Schiff
After law school, Schiff served as a law clerk for Judge William Matthew Byrne Jr. of the United States District Court for the Central District of California. From 1987 to 1993, he was an Assistant United States Attorney in the Office of the United States Attorney for the Central District of California. While in this position, Schiff came to public attention when he prosecuted the case against Richard Miller, a former FBI agent who was convicted of spying for the Soviet Union.
Then he went into politics.

Jordan
Jordan was an assistant wrestling coach with Ohio State University's (OSU) wrestling program from 1987 to 1995. During his tenure as Assistant Coach, at least 53 members of the Wrestling Team were sexually abused by the team physician. Jordan has refused to cooperate with the investigations into sexual misconduct at OSU and has refused all requests to be interviewed.
Then he went into politics.
You said Jordan was a bigot because he interrupts people. I pointed out that Schiff is known to do that too, so I asked if that makes Schiff a bigot.

It wasn't about Schiff. It was about your absurd claim that those who interrupt people, are bigots. Even more absurd, you believe that only republicans who interrupt people are bigots.

The investigation done by the school found absolutely zero evidence that Jordan knew anything. If there is any evidence, I'll say he has absolutely no business serving in Congress. I won't say that, based solely on an accusation.

Schiff also had that moment that reeked on maturity and sanity, when he read a parody letter of the conversation between Trump and the president of Ukraine. That wasn't weird at all, nope.

Jordan has a bachelors in Economics, a Masters in education, and went to Law school. You left some of that stuff out. I'm sure it was an accidental omission, you weren't trying to paint him in a negative light on purpose.
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Old 11-25-2019, 02:04 PM   #20
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And I can post video of Schiff interrupting witnesses and fellow Congressmen.
He's the chair of the committee, it's his job to keep it running under the rules.
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Old 11-25-2019, 02:10 PM   #21
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He's the chair of the committee, it's his job to keep it running under the rules.
Agreed. There are reasons why you can interrupt someone, and it doesn't mean one is a bigot.

I wasn't the one who claimed any connection between one's penchant for interrupting others, and bigotry.
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Old 11-25-2019, 02:30 PM   #22
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You said Jordan was a bigot because he interrupts people. I pointed out that Schiff is known to do that too, so I asked if that makes Schiff a bigot.

It wasn't about Schiff. It was about your absurd claim that those who interrupt people, are bigots. Even more absurd, you believe that only republicans who interrupt people are bigots.

The investigation done by the school found absolutely zero evidence that Jordan knew anything. If there is any evidence, I'll say he has absolutely no business serving in Congress. I won't say that, based solely on an accusation.

Schiff also had that moment that reeked on maturity and sanity, when he read a parody letter of the conversation between Trump and the president of Ukraine. That wasn't weird at all, nope.

Jordan has a bachelors in Economics, a Masters in education, and went to Law school. You left some of that stuff out. I'm sure it was an accidental omission, you weren't trying to paint him in a negative light on purpose.
It's that reading comprehension thing again...........

Lets see what they both did after graduating from law school

Lawyers hired by OSU to probe the allegations said Jordan was contacted — both by phone and email — to request an interview, but he never responded.

And three members of the wrestling team under Jordan insist that he knew about the abuse but looked the other way.

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

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Old 11-25-2019, 02:33 PM   #23
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It's that reading comprehension thing again...........

Lets see what they both did after graduating from law school

Lawyers hired by OSU to probe the allegations said Jordan was contacted — both by phone and email — to request an interview, but he never responded.

And three members of the wrestling team under Jordan insist that he knew about the abuse but looked the other way.
the ohio state probe found zero evidence he knew. some
victims
suing the school, claim
he knew.

once again, there has been an accusation. and for you, when the accused is a republican, that’s enough.
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Old 11-25-2019, 02:46 PM   #24
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the ohio state probe found zero evidence he knew. some
victims
suing the school, claim
he knew.

once again, there has been an accusation. and for you, when the accused is a republican, that’s enough.
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Perhaps only if there was a tape, multiple witnesses is not enough.

When someone refuses to cooperate with an investigation, sound familiar, they lose the opportunity to absolve themselves of involvement.

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Old 11-25-2019, 03:44 PM   #25
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Pete’s wife can’t wrestle.
But you should see her box.
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Old 11-25-2019, 03:46 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
Perhaps only if there was a tape, multiple witnesses is not enough.

When someone refuses to cooperate with an investigation, sound familiar, they lose the opportunity to absolve themselves of involvement.
if the witnesses can offer
no more than second- or third-hand hearsay and presumptions, than what have they witnessed?

in this country Pete, an accusation isn’t evidence. An accusation isn’t even circumstantial evidence.
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Old 11-25-2019, 03:53 PM   #27
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Pete’s wife can’t wrestle.
But you should see her box.
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come on.
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Old 11-25-2019, 05:03 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
if the witnesses can offer
no more than second- or third-hand hearsay and presumptions, than what have they witnessed?

in this country Pete, an accusation isn’t evidence. An accusation isn’t even circumstantial evidence.
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But their certainly is enough of a predicate to subpoena the rest of the documents that have been withheld and compel the witnesses to testify, the hearings in the House to date are similar to Grand juries and were previously carried out by in Clinton's case in private by Ken Starr and in Nixon's by Archibald Cox and then Leon Jaworski.

The Trumplicans demanded that the hearings be conducted in public this time.

Sondland is not second or third hand, and none of the rest are suffering from delusions. Did they seem to not understand the subject matter to you?

Call Guiliani to testify, though he has enough problems that he might have to use his insurance. Testifying might be his blanket policy.........

He looks like he is about to go down faster than Dangle's on ScottW and he won't go down alone.

Potential charges under consideration for America's Mayor:
- obstruction of justice
- money laundering
- conspiracy to defraud the U.S.
- making false statements
- FARA violations
- donating foreign $ in another person’s name

Just so you understand, if they are naming charges they will be issued shortly, all the preliminary work is done. Just crossing the t's and dotting the i's.

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Old 11-25-2019, 11:50 PM   #29
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Looks likely that I missed some Colludy charges

1️⃣ Obstruction
2️⃣ Money Laundering
3️⃣ Conspiracy to Defraud U.S.
4️⃣ False Statements
5️⃣ Acting As Unregistered Foreign Agent
6️⃣ Illegal Solicitation of Foreign Donations
7️⃣ Mail Fraud
8️⃣ Wire Fraud
9️⃣ Fradulent Campaign Donations

He’s not worried though, he’s good friends with Floridaman and something about Joe Biden being his agent........
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Old 11-26-2019, 07:42 AM   #30
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Pete’s wife can’t wrestle.
But you should see her box.
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You can take the board to a new low, didn’t think it possible, but there it is.
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